/ Swinging Leads

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Trangia - on 16 Jun 2014
Why is this term creeping in? Where did it originate? Whats wrong with the long established "Leading Through"?
Skyfall - on 16 Jun 2014
In reply to Trangia:

Been using it for almost 20 years....
Trangia - on 16 Jun 2014
In reply to Skyfall:

Why? I ask again why not "Leading Through" which has been in use for about 100 years?

I suppose language is an ever developing thing but I'm curious to know why and how this originated when there was an established expression?
Skyfall - on 16 Jun 2014
In reply to Trangia:

When I started climbing the people I climbed with used the expression. No more than that. It seemed quite natural and representative of the flow of good multi pitch climbing.
Trangia - on 16 Jun 2014
In reply to Skyfall:

Thanks. Another expression is "binner" rather than "krab", but again languages including climbing terminology are ever changing....

One day the Peak will be the Peaks........:)
Blue Straggler - on 16 Jun 2014
In reply to Trangia:

It is a sly reference to the workplace phrase "swinging the lead" and signifies that rock climbing is a leisurely pursuit for those who like to forget about work.

Don't they teach you lot ANYTHING?
john arran - on 16 Jun 2014
In reply to Trangia:

I seem to recall saying 'swapping leads'
Gordon Stainforth - on 16 Jun 2014
In reply to Blue Straggler:

Swinging leads has always to me suggested something a little bit looser than straight 'alternate leads', which is what we used to call it.
Gordon Stainforth - on 16 Jun 2014
In reply to Blue Straggler:

.. and 'leading through' always suggested something a little bit bigger than your average 2-3 pitch British rock climb, i.e. something much more multipitch, on an Alpine rock-climbing scale.
Andy Long - on 17 Jun 2014
In reply to Trangia:

I've always called it "alternate leads"

I was once told that "biner" originated with the American tendency to shorten from the start of a word. Also they seem to find "krabs" mildly offensive. After all, they do call "cocks" "roosters".
BenedictIEP on 17 Jun 2014
In reply to Trangia:

A climbing Pair swing leads, an individual climber leads through, surely!
Nick Russell on 17 Jun 2014
In reply to Andy Long:

> I was once told that "biner" originated with the American tendency to shorten from the start of a word.

Definitely heard 'biner' a lot more in the US. It was a source of amusement when non-climbing Americans heard it as 'beaner' - an offensive term for Mexicans apparently. Seems like neither 'krab' nor 'biner' is really safe!
Ava Adore - on 17 Jun 2014
In reply to Trangia:

I thought that "lead through" meant that the leader of the first pitch carries on to lead the second pitch.
planetmarshall on 17 Jun 2014
In reply to Trangia:

> Another expression is "binner" rather than "krab", but again languages including climbing terminology are ever changing....

'Krab' is classic metathesis, which is also why we say 'bird' rather than old english 'bryd', and why we might eventually all say 'aks' and 'nucular'

Blue Straggler - on 17 Jun 2014
In reply to planetmarshall:

> why we might eventually all say 'aks'

I may be able to help. I speak jive
Trangia - on 17 Jun 2014
In reply to Ava Adore:

> I thought that "lead through" meant that the leader of the first pitch carries on to lead the second pitch.

I always understood it to mean that the leader leads the first pitch and brings the second up to the belay, the second then "leads through" and climbs the second pitch where he/she belays, and brings up the original leader who "leads through" again to the top of the third pitch and so on. it flows with each person leading an alternate pitch. If I understand it correctly "swinging leads" has the same meaning?
Bruce Hooker - on 17 Jun 2014
In reply to Trangia:

> I always understood it to mean that the leader leads the first pitch and brings the second up to the belay, the second then "leads through" and climbs the second pitch where he/she belays, and brings up the original leader who "leads through" again to the top of the third pitch and so on. it flows with each person leading an alternate pitch. If I understand it correctly "swinging leads" has the same meaning?

Having a slow day?
climbwhenready - on 17 Jun 2014
In reply to Trangia:
> I always understood it to mean that the leader leads the first pitch and brings the second up to the belay, the second then "leads through" and climbs the second pitch where he/she belays, and brings up the original leader who "leads through" again to the top of the third pitch and so on. it flows with each person leading an alternate pitch. If I understand it correctly "swinging leads" has the same meaning?

The way I understand the English, "swinging leads" or "alternating leads" is a strategy that describes how the climbing pair deals with the climb. An alternative is "block leading." "Leading through" is what the 2nd (new leader) does at the top of a pitch when you are alternating/swinging leads.

i.e.
"We climbed Trangia's eliminate, swinging leads" -> makes sense
"We climbed Trangia's eliminate, leading through" -> doesn't make sense
"I led through at the top of P3" -> makes sense
Post edited at 16:54
nclarey - on 17 Jun 2014
In reply to Blue Straggler:

+1 Airplane! reference.
Bruce Hooker - on 17 Jun 2014
In reply to climbwhenready:

> "We climbed Trangia's eliminate, leading through" -> doesn't make sense

It does to me :-) It's the expression that was used a few years ago and I suppose is still used by those brought up at the time. "Swinging Leads" sounds like an unlikely description of that Northern city.
Trangia - on 17 Jun 2014
In reply to Bruce Hooker:

"Swinging Leads" sounds like an unlikely description of that Northern city.

Ha ha! Love it!
Bulls Crack - on 17 Jun 2014
In reply to Trangia:

It's a nautical term surely?

I suggest you just keelhaul anyone found using it at the crags.
David Coley - on 17 Jun 2014
In reply to Trangia:

To me, leading through means changing the leader each pitch. Swinging leads might mean this, or it might mean changing less often. As in "let's swing leads every hour".

"Let's lead through every hour" doesn't seem to get the point over as well.

I assume it's from the USA?
Orgsm on 17 Jun 2014
In reply to Trangia:

I thought it was called following through ;-)
DubyaJamesDubya - on 18 Jun 2014
In reply to Ava Adore:
> (In reply to Trangia)
>
> I thought that "lead through" meant that the leader of the first pitch carries on to lead the second pitch.

No. It means the same as swinging leads :-)
DubyaJamesDubya - on 18 Jun 2014
In reply to Trangia:
> Why is this term creeping in? Where did it originate? Whats wrong with the long established "Leading Through"?

I can see what it means but 'alternating the lead' or 'swapping the lead' would be my choice (ahead of leading through too).
berna on 18 Jun 2014
In reply to Blue Straggler:
> (In reply to planetmarshall)
>
> [...]
>
> I may be able to help. I speak jive

best. movie. ever.
Bulls Crack - on 18 Jun 2014
In reply to Trangia:

Maybe it was 'swingeing leads' ie harsh extreme and drastic...
ads.ukclimbing.com
ripper - on 18 Jun 2014
In reply to Bulls Crack:

> It's a nautical term surely?

> I suggest you just keelhaul anyone found using it at the crags.

Unless you happen to be at Birchen, in which it's presumably fine?

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