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I have a concrete sectional garage which I wish to remove, that part is ok, its the asbestos roof sheets I'd rather leave to someone else.
I've had one quote for £800 which seems a bit steep for about 12 sq metres of roof.
Anybody else had this done and could give me an idea if this is par for the course?
I've had one quote for £800 which seems a bit steep for about 12 sq metres of roof.
Anybody else had this done and could give me an idea if this is par for the course?
In reply to pec:
Find a local tip that will take it and do it yourself. Wet it, and unbolt it, stack the sheets without breaking them so you don't release the fibres. Wrap them in polythene. Have a look on the HSE website for advice on suitable masks.
Find a local tip that will take it and do it yourself. Wet it, and unbolt it, stack the sheets without breaking them so you don't release the fibres. Wrap them in polythene. Have a look on the HSE website for advice on suitable masks.
In reply to pec:
I believe the spec for face masks is ffp3 rated, but I could be wrong on that, I meant to pick some up before (not anything directly relates to asbestos but it never hurts eh) but never got around to it. Not sure about prices for removal though sorry.
I believe the spec for face masks is ffp3 rated, but I could be wrong on that, I meant to pick some up before (not anything directly relates to asbestos but it never hurts eh) but never got around to it. Not sure about prices for removal though sorry.
In reply to JJL:
Or even just washing up liquid in water - it reduces the surface tension of the water so the asbestos gets properly wet. Easy, cheap and safe to do it yourself
> Spraying the sheets with diluted PVA glue or vinyl paint is a good move too
Or even just washing up liquid in water - it reduces the surface tension of the water so the asbestos gets properly wet. Easy, cheap and safe to do it yourself
In reply to pec:
They removal men would be charged a minimum of a ton to dispose which is about £250-300 ish depending on the disposal site.
The risk is minimal if you wear a face mask, spray the sheeting with water before hand and avoid breaking the sheets. Cement bonded asbestos is considered a low risk asbestos but should still be treated with respect.
Wrap it in 2 layers of 1000 micron plastic sheeting and seal with tape. You would probably be able to dispose of it free of charge at one of the local tips
They removal men would be charged a minimum of a ton to dispose which is about £250-300 ish depending on the disposal site.
The risk is minimal if you wear a face mask, spray the sheeting with water before hand and avoid breaking the sheets. Cement bonded asbestos is considered a low risk asbestos but should still be treated with respect.
Wrap it in 2 layers of 1000 micron plastic sheeting and seal with tape. You would probably be able to dispose of it free of charge at one of the local tips
In reply to pec:
I'd second the idea of spraying it down with dilute pva and wearing a mask. Then wrap it up and get it collected. My council charge £30 a sheet (8x3 foot) for removal but I think there is a max of 3 sheets a go (not quite a full garage roof)
I'd second the idea of spraying it down with dilute pva and wearing a mask. Then wrap it up and get it collected. My council charge £30 a sheet (8x3 foot) for removal but I think there is a max of 3 sheets a go (not quite a full garage roof)
In reply to pec:
did this job on my garage and easy peasy and only cost about about £10 for the plastic sheeting. My local authority required that some guy came out and checked the sheets to confirm it was a diy job and not commercial. he then gave me a licence to take the sheets (double wrapped in plastic sheets) to a specified site. I wet the sheets prior to removing the fixings and handling them and wore a mask. The sheets are inert and the risk is very very minimal. don't forget to wear overalls and remove the overalls before you remove your mask.
did this job on my garage and easy peasy and only cost about about £10 for the plastic sheeting. My local authority required that some guy came out and checked the sheets to confirm it was a diy job and not commercial. he then gave me a licence to take the sheets (double wrapped in plastic sheets) to a specified site. I wet the sheets prior to removing the fixings and handling them and wore a mask. The sheets are inert and the risk is very very minimal. don't forget to wear overalls and remove the overalls before you remove your mask.
In reply to Submit to Gravity:
Correct.
This is not hard.
If you think it's hard then look again at the intelligence and skill level of most asbestos removal contractors! If you have reasonable DIY skils then you and your family and neighbours are probably at less risk if you do it yourself than if you employ the kind of contractor that the insurance company sent round to my place!
Some councils have a website page to help you with disposal of domestic asbestos waste. Here is an example.
http://www.highland.gov.uk/download/downloads/id/805/how_to_dispose_of_dome...
Remember that asbestos was identified as a hazard through thousands of workers being exposed to dreadful conditions for many years. It is not like you would be handling the ebola virus!
- The fibres are trapped in the roof sheet material
- The type of fibre in such sheets is amongst the least harmful of the six fibre types defined by statute as asbestos
- Not everyone is susceptible to asbestos-related disease
- Simple precautions prevent airborne release of fibres
- Simple and cheap PPE provides protection
Try to obey all the rules: even the stupid ones. Some people will get ridiculously upset about it if you don't. Some of those people are judges!
> Find a local tip that will take it and do it yourself. Wet it, and unbolt it, stack the sheets without breaking them so you don't release the fibres. Wrap them in polythene. Have a look on the HSE website for advice on suitable masks.
Correct.
This is not hard.
If you think it's hard then look again at the intelligence and skill level of most asbestos removal contractors! If you have reasonable DIY skils then you and your family and neighbours are probably at less risk if you do it yourself than if you employ the kind of contractor that the insurance company sent round to my place!
Some councils have a website page to help you with disposal of domestic asbestos waste. Here is an example.
http://www.highland.gov.uk/download/downloads/id/805/how_to_dispose_of_dome...
Remember that asbestos was identified as a hazard through thousands of workers being exposed to dreadful conditions for many years. It is not like you would be handling the ebola virus!
- The fibres are trapped in the roof sheet material
- The type of fibre in such sheets is amongst the least harmful of the six fibre types defined by statute as asbestos
- Not everyone is susceptible to asbestos-related disease
- Simple precautions prevent airborne release of fibres
- Simple and cheap PPE provides protection
Try to obey all the rules: even the stupid ones. Some people will get ridiculously upset about it if you don't. Some of those people are judges!
In reply to CrushUnit:
> (In reply to pec)
> They removal men would be charged a minimum of a ton to dispose which is about £250-300 ish depending on the disposal site.
>
> The risk is minimal if you wear a face mask.
>
It may well be for yourself, but I would go further and ensure that no one else is outside or close by when you do it, and that you use a disposable coverall. There are a good number of cases of people (family members) getting mesothilioma from a secondary source, usually clothing of those exposed directly. > They removal men would be charged a minimum of a ton to dispose which is about £250-300 ish depending on the disposal site.
>
> The risk is minimal if you wear a face mask.
>
In reply to pec:
As has been said before, you can do it yourself. I had to remove a small amount. Did the usual, wet it down, overalls, mask, etc. The local council (Birmingham) will even collect it for free!
As has been said before, you can do it yourself. I had to remove a small amount. Did the usual, wet it down, overalls, mask, etc. The local council (Birmingham) will even collect it for free!
In reply to Jim Fraser:
Although that is true.. ..the incubation of disease is around 30yrs, and so we aren't sure exactly what the effect of our "safe" practices are until many years later. While, many workers were exposed to alot of fibers, indirect exposure of family members at much lower doses also appears to have been sufficient to bring about later disease.
> (In reply to Submit to Gravity)
>
> [...]
>
> Correct.
>
> This is not hard.
>
> If you think it's hard then look again at the intelligence and skill level of most asbestos removal contractors! If you have reasonable DIY skils then you and your family and neighbours are probably at less risk if you do it yourself than if you employ the kind of contractor that the insurance company sent round to my place!
>
> Some councils have a website page to help you with disposal of domestic asbestos waste. Here is an example.
> http://www.highland.gov.uk/download/downloads/id/805/how_to_dispose_of_dome...
>
>
> Remember that asbestos was identified as a hazard through thousands of workers being exposed to dreadful conditions for many years. It is not like you would be handling the ebola virus!
>
> [...]
>
> Correct.
>
> This is not hard.
>
> If you think it's hard then look again at the intelligence and skill level of most asbestos removal contractors! If you have reasonable DIY skils then you and your family and neighbours are probably at less risk if you do it yourself than if you employ the kind of contractor that the insurance company sent round to my place!
>
> Some councils have a website page to help you with disposal of domestic asbestos waste. Here is an example.
> http://www.highland.gov.uk/download/downloads/id/805/how_to_dispose_of_dome...
>
>
> Remember that asbestos was identified as a hazard through thousands of workers being exposed to dreadful conditions for many years. It is not like you would be handling the ebola virus!
Although that is true.. ..the incubation of disease is around 30yrs, and so we aren't sure exactly what the effect of our "safe" practices are until many years later. While, many workers were exposed to alot of fibers, indirect exposure of family members at much lower doses also appears to have been sufficient to bring about later disease.
In reply to kipper12:
Here here. As someone who has diagnosed the associated diseases, I would be very very careful of the stuff myself! The reality of exposure is that you won't know for many year afterward whether whatever you did was safe.
> It may well be for yourself, but I would go further and ensure that no one else is outside or close by when you do it, and that you use a disposable coverall. There are a good number of cases of people (family members) getting mesothilioma from a secondary source, usually clothing of those exposed directly.
Here here. As someone who has diagnosed the associated diseases, I would be very very careful of the stuff myself! The reality of exposure is that you won't know for many year afterward whether whatever you did was safe.
In reply to pec:
When I was about twelve I made a model boat out of wood with a Mamod steam marine engine. Because I thought it would be a good idea I lined the engine compartment with a shell of asbestos cement sheet, sawn up, sanded and glued in with firebrick cement. I'm still in rude good health 46 years later.
When I was about twelve I made a model boat out of wood with a Mamod steam marine engine. Because I thought it would be a good idea I lined the engine compartment with a shell of asbestos cement sheet, sawn up, sanded and glued in with firebrick cement. I'm still in rude good health 46 years later.
In reply to Rigid Raider:
Some people have had high exposure and not contracted it.
Some people may have only been exposed to a single fibre and have died.
Luck of the draw.
Some people have had high exposure and not contracted it.
Some people may have only been exposed to a single fibre and have died.
Luck of the draw.
In reply to grumpybearpantsclimbinggoat:
I think this is the problem. No-one can decide on a "safe" level of exposure, so therefore *any* exposure is deemed potentially harmful - which it is... potentially.
As a result because "a single fibre" can cause significant harm - which it can - in theory - in rare cases - the d@mn stuff is treated like nitroglycerine and the bogey-man it isn't and vast sums are required to remove it.
But, in theory, a single fibre could spell your doom... but it probably won't....
I think this is the problem. No-one can decide on a "safe" level of exposure, so therefore *any* exposure is deemed potentially harmful - which it is... potentially.
As a result because "a single fibre" can cause significant harm - which it can - in theory - in rare cases - the d@mn stuff is treated like nitroglycerine and the bogey-man it isn't and vast sums are required to remove it.
But, in theory, a single fibre could spell your doom... but it probably won't....
In reply to grumpybearpantsclimbinggoat:
The accepted wisdoms of asbestos normally fall into one of two camps.
On the one hand the asbestos consuming developed countries like the UK have developed apparently stringent laws concerning the use of asbestos and effectively eradicating its use. In such countries, a small number (6 in Section 2 of the 2012 Regs in the UK as previously) of fibre types are chemically identified as a threat and any presence of such material is treated as a deadly threat. Legal controls started in the UK in the 1960s and detailed development of these controls continue.
On the other hand there are asbestos producing countries, some developed countries (perhaps beginning with C) and some not so developed, where vested interests continue to try to tell us that it's not really asbestos that is the problem. A huge and largely worthless justification campaign exists in several territories.
Although the most harmful fibre types have been identified in countries like the UK, their use eradicated, and their removal strictly controlled, there are a number of problems with the science.
Our UK legislation identifies 6 fibres. However, around 400 similar mineral fibre types may exist and we have a limited idea of how many cause similar disease. Recent work on the genetic factors centre on some of those fibres not identified in UK legislation. Study of the genetic factors seems to be gathering pace. Unfortunately, the already entrenched positions of those holding the purse strings will mean that it will take much longer than it should do before something approximating to truth bubbles to the surface.
Identification of asbestos seems to be a bit of a mess. Although legislation identifies the chemical name of the offending fibres and defines then stringently, industrially, in practice, only a small portion of this information seems to be used. The good news is that everything is done on the safe side. The bad news is that if you think about all the people who did really well at school and then think about how many of them ended up in the asbestos removal industry, the number tends to be Zero.
If all else fails, read the instructions.
The accepted wisdoms of asbestos normally fall into one of two camps.
On the one hand the asbestos consuming developed countries like the UK have developed apparently stringent laws concerning the use of asbestos and effectively eradicating its use. In such countries, a small number (6 in Section 2 of the 2012 Regs in the UK as previously) of fibre types are chemically identified as a threat and any presence of such material is treated as a deadly threat. Legal controls started in the UK in the 1960s and detailed development of these controls continue.
On the other hand there are asbestos producing countries, some developed countries (perhaps beginning with C) and some not so developed, where vested interests continue to try to tell us that it's not really asbestos that is the problem. A huge and largely worthless justification campaign exists in several territories.
Although the most harmful fibre types have been identified in countries like the UK, their use eradicated, and their removal strictly controlled, there are a number of problems with the science.
Our UK legislation identifies 6 fibres. However, around 400 similar mineral fibre types may exist and we have a limited idea of how many cause similar disease. Recent work on the genetic factors centre on some of those fibres not identified in UK legislation. Study of the genetic factors seems to be gathering pace. Unfortunately, the already entrenched positions of those holding the purse strings will mean that it will take much longer than it should do before something approximating to truth bubbles to the surface.
Identification of asbestos seems to be a bit of a mess. Although legislation identifies the chemical name of the offending fibres and defines then stringently, industrially, in practice, only a small portion of this information seems to be used. The good news is that everything is done on the safe side. The bad news is that if you think about all the people who did really well at school and then think about how many of them ended up in the asbestos removal industry, the number tends to be Zero.
If all else fails, read the instructions.
In reply to pec:
Firstly thanks to all who taken the trouble to reply. I did know you can do it yourself and my DIY skills are more than up to it and I may well end up doing it, especially if I can't get a quote for a lot less than £800! However I've got more jobs lined up than I can possibly do myself so I thought I'd farm out some of the ones I least want to do, does nobody have even an idea of what it might cost?
By coincidence, my wife came home with an interesting asbestos story yeasterday. A woman she works with has new neighbours who she found out were going to get rid of their asbestos garage. The wife neighbour said her husband was going to do it and knew about the bagging it up, wear a dusk mask regulations etc.
Last weekend she saw the husband neighbour prising the sheets apart with a shovel, putting the bits in a skip and then getting into the skip and smashing them up with a sledge hammer before hiding them under some wood, all without wearing any protective clothing or even a dust mask.
She rang the council to inform them and also the skip hire company who were rather less than pleased.
In view of some of the comments above about the IQ of asbestos workers, perhaps the husband neighbour has missed his vocation?
Firstly thanks to all who taken the trouble to reply. I did know you can do it yourself and my DIY skills are more than up to it and I may well end up doing it, especially if I can't get a quote for a lot less than £800! However I've got more jobs lined up than I can possibly do myself so I thought I'd farm out some of the ones I least want to do, does nobody have even an idea of what it might cost?
By coincidence, my wife came home with an interesting asbestos story yeasterday. A woman she works with has new neighbours who she found out were going to get rid of their asbestos garage. The wife neighbour said her husband was going to do it and knew about the bagging it up, wear a dusk mask regulations etc.
Last weekend she saw the husband neighbour prising the sheets apart with a shovel, putting the bits in a skip and then getting into the skip and smashing them up with a sledge hammer before hiding them under some wood, all without wearing any protective clothing or even a dust mask.
She rang the council to inform them and also the skip hire company who were rather less than pleased.
In view of some of the comments above about the IQ of asbestos workers, perhaps the husband neighbour has missed his vocation?
In reply to pec:
It's worth bearing in mind that asbestos is a naturally occurring fibre so there is a certain percentage of it in the air we all breathe day and daily. The scientists haven't quite figured out why we all don't get asbestos related diseases, given the traditional "single fibre" view. The "single fibre" theory developed because of the nature of the most nasty asbestos related diseases, mesothelioma, which appears to be caused by a single fibre (it is also one of the most horrible diseases you can get).
The circle that scientists have been trying to square in recent years is why, if it is caused by a single fibre, does mesothelioma seem only to occur in people with a history of significant asbestos exposure.
The modern thinking and research is moving away from the single fibre theory because the diseases only seem to occur once exposure reaches a certain level.
It is true that there are many cases of secondary exposure (shipyard worker's wives mainly). The background of these cases however tends to disclose that the wives were exposed to massive quantities over the course of their husband's working career. The typical story is of the husband arriving home from the shipyard in his overalls totally covered in asbestos dust. The wives would then take the overalls and beat them on the washing line to remove the dust before washing them, and get covered head to toe in the dust in so doing. So most of the secondary exposure cases are cases where there was a significant exposure.
Ultimately I think you need to have a think about it and decide whether for the sake of £800 you want to do it. I'd pay the money personally notwithstanding the fact that I think the risks are small.
It's worth bearing in mind that asbestos is a naturally occurring fibre so there is a certain percentage of it in the air we all breathe day and daily. The scientists haven't quite figured out why we all don't get asbestos related diseases, given the traditional "single fibre" view. The "single fibre" theory developed because of the nature of the most nasty asbestos related diseases, mesothelioma, which appears to be caused by a single fibre (it is also one of the most horrible diseases you can get).
The circle that scientists have been trying to square in recent years is why, if it is caused by a single fibre, does mesothelioma seem only to occur in people with a history of significant asbestos exposure.
The modern thinking and research is moving away from the single fibre theory because the diseases only seem to occur once exposure reaches a certain level.
It is true that there are many cases of secondary exposure (shipyard worker's wives mainly). The background of these cases however tends to disclose that the wives were exposed to massive quantities over the course of their husband's working career. The typical story is of the husband arriving home from the shipyard in his overalls totally covered in asbestos dust. The wives would then take the overalls and beat them on the washing line to remove the dust before washing them, and get covered head to toe in the dust in so doing. So most of the secondary exposure cases are cases where there was a significant exposure.
Ultimately I think you need to have a think about it and decide whether for the sake of £800 you want to do it. I'd pay the money personally notwithstanding the fact that I think the risks are small.
In reply to M0nkey:
I'm not entirely sure you are correct on the significant fibre exposure aspect. There are well documented cases of relatives of asbestos workers developing mesothelioma and their only exposure is secondary from clothing etc. Similiarly, there are a number of cases of teachers exposed indirectly as are joinery etc. The biggest expected rise in cases over the next fey years is anticipated from joiners and plumbers, and others with limited secondary exposure.
The reason the fibres are treated as if a single fibre can cause severe disease is that we have not been able to identify a threshold. The same is true for mutagens and genotoxic carcinogens.
In all,these cases, there is likely to be a threshold, the tricky bit is in identifying it. Where a threshold can be identified, such as for reproductive toxicity, regulation takes a different approach.
I think rightly, society would expect that where a threshold can't be identified, regulation proceeds along a more cautious path.
I'm not entirely sure you are correct on the significant fibre exposure aspect. There are well documented cases of relatives of asbestos workers developing mesothelioma and their only exposure is secondary from clothing etc. Similiarly, there are a number of cases of teachers exposed indirectly as are joinery etc. The biggest expected rise in cases over the next fey years is anticipated from joiners and plumbers, and others with limited secondary exposure.
The reason the fibres are treated as if a single fibre can cause severe disease is that we have not been able to identify a threshold. The same is true for mutagens and genotoxic carcinogens.
In all,these cases, there is likely to be a threshold, the tricky bit is in identifying it. Where a threshold can be identified, such as for reproductive toxicity, regulation takes a different approach.
I think rightly, society would expect that where a threshold can't be identified, regulation proceeds along a more cautious path.
In reply to pec:
Had time to ring round quite a few more companies today and some quotes were in the low £400's which seems a lot more reasonable. Thanks again all.
Had time to ring round quite a few more companies today and some quotes were in the low £400's which seems a lot more reasonable. Thanks again all.
In reply to pec:
Reminds me of a skit that Michael Bentine did in his live show. He used to bring on a WWII gas mask, and explain that actors were now banned from wearing them onstage or in film, unless they had been inspected and guaranteed free from asbestos; "That warning may be a bit late for some of us...."
http://www.voicetheunion.org.uk/index.cfm?cid=1117
Reminds me of a skit that Michael Bentine did in his live show. He used to bring on a WWII gas mask, and explain that actors were now banned from wearing them onstage or in film, unless they had been inspected and guaranteed free from asbestos; "That warning may be a bit late for some of us...."
http://www.voicetheunion.org.uk/index.cfm?cid=1117
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