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Seen this on Cycle Chat? The bloke's contact details are given further down the post:
http://www.cyclechat.net/threads/parental-advisory-excessive-swearing-aggre...
http://www.cyclechat.net/threads/parental-advisory-excessive-swearing-aggre...
In reply to Rigid Raider:
Seen this on Cycle Chat? The bloke's contact details are given further down the post
Do people really think that an altercation like this warrants trying to destroy a mans livelihood?
Seen this on Cycle Chat? The bloke's contact details are given further down the post
Do people really think that an altercation like this warrants trying to destroy a mans livelihood?
In reply to FactorXXX:
Yes. I generally disapprove of publicising this kind of thing via the web but this is the first time I've done it because the man clearly has a problem and needs professional attention.
Yes. I generally disapprove of publicising this kind of thing via the web but this is the first time I've done it because the man clearly has a problem and needs professional attention.
In reply to FactorXXX:
No, but the driver is a prize idiot.
If I was the cyclist I would have left it at getting his registration details whilst getting loads of abuse and just passed it on to the police. Hopefully they would then pay him a visit...
No, but the driver is a prize idiot.
If I was the cyclist I would have left it at getting his registration details whilst getting loads of abuse and just passed it on to the police. Hopefully they would then pay him a visit...
In reply to Rigid Raider:
the man clearly has a problem and needs professional attention.
What problem?
Swearing?
If he was physically aggressive, perhaps, but to try and destroy someone's livlihood for a bit of heated swearing is a bit over the top...
Even so, if he was physically aggressive, shouldn't it be a Police matter?
the man clearly has a problem and needs professional attention.
What problem?
Swearing?
If he was physically aggressive, perhaps, but to try and destroy someone's livlihood for a bit of heated swearing is a bit over the top...
Even so, if he was physically aggressive, shouldn't it be a Police matter?
In reply to rallymania:
Why not? He came pretty close to destroying the cyclist actual life.
Not defending the motorists driving because in all probability he should have given way, but he was nowhere near the cyclist!
Why not? He came pretty close to destroying the cyclist actual life.
Not defending the motorists driving because in all probability he should have given way, but he was nowhere near the cyclist!
In reply to FactorXXX:
given that most head cams are wide angle he would have been a lot closer than it appears in the film, I would have been surprised if the cyclyst didnt have to brake to avoid the car, at the speed the car was going any contact would have been serious :-/
given that most head cams are wide angle he would have been a lot closer than it appears in the film, I would have been surprised if the cyclyst didnt have to brake to avoid the car, at the speed the car was going any contact would have been serious :-/
In reply to FactorXXX:
By the sound of this from a linked thread... some got nothing (like me - actually no, I did get a letter of apology from him that he was forced to write whilst in jail) but I do know it really $%^&ed him off judging by the emails he sent me, especially after he'd moved and was trying to get away from all the crap he'd left behind. Quite satisfying.
yes. Obviously forgive and forget or accepting he has served his time wasn't enough
By the sound of this from a linked thread... some got nothing (like me - actually no, I did get a letter of apology from him that he was forced to write whilst in jail) but I do know it really $%^&ed him off judging by the emails he sent me, especially after he'd moved and was trying to get away from all the crap he'd left behind. Quite satisfying.
yes. Obviously forgive and forget or accepting he has served his time wasn't enough
In reply to jethro kiernan:
given that most head cams are wide angle he would have been a lot closer than it appears in the film, I would have been surprised if the cyclyst didnt have to brake to avoid the car, at the speed the car was going any contact would have been serious :-/
Pure supposition and not an ounce of actual fact.
given that most head cams are wide angle he would have been a lot closer than it appears in the film, I would have been surprised if the cyclyst didnt have to brake to avoid the car, at the speed the car was going any contact would have been serious :-/
Pure supposition and not an ounce of actual fact.
In reply to IMA:
By the sound of this from a linked thread... some got nothing (like me - actually no, I did get a letter of apology from him that he was forced to write whilst in jail) but I do know it really $%^&ed him off judging by the emails he sent me, especially after he'd moved and was trying to get away from all the crap he'd left behind. Quite satisfying.
yes. Obviously forgive and forget or accepting he has served his time wasn't enough
Not sure what you are actually trying to say there?
Are you saying that the motorist in the clip should go to gaol?
By the sound of this from a linked thread... some got nothing (like me - actually no, I did get a letter of apology from him that he was forced to write whilst in jail) but I do know it really $%^&ed him off judging by the emails he sent me, especially after he'd moved and was trying to get away from all the crap he'd left behind. Quite satisfying.
yes. Obviously forgive and forget or accepting he has served his time wasn't enough
Not sure what you are actually trying to say there?
Are you saying that the motorist in the clip should go to gaol?
In reply to FactorXXX:
I think he's doing a good job of destroying his own livelihood by taking peoples money and not delivering goods etc (see the link to the piston heads threads).
Seems like a lovely bloke. It would be interesting to see one of these clips where the cyclist promptly punches the car driver to the floor whilst screaming and shouting at him.... will the usual suspects be jumping on the thread to say "ah but you didn't see what the driver did before that".
Cheers
Toby
I think he's doing a good job of destroying his own livelihood by taking peoples money and not delivering goods etc (see the link to the piston heads threads).
Seems like a lovely bloke. It would be interesting to see one of these clips where the cyclist promptly punches the car driver to the floor whilst screaming and shouting at him.... will the usual suspects be jumping on the thread to say "ah but you didn't see what the driver did before that".
Cheers
Toby
In reply to FactorXXX:
Drive like an irresponsible idiot, behave like an obnoxious idiot, be judged as an irresponsible and obnoxious idiot.
But that's a stupid choice if you have a personal or professional reputation to maintain.
Drive like an irresponsible idiot, behave like an obnoxious idiot, be judged as an irresponsible and obnoxious idiot.
But that's a stupid choice if you have a personal or professional reputation to maintain.
In reply to Rigid Raider:
Dear oh dear, more break-time mayhem in the little boys' kindergarten. They both make complete fools of themselves if you ask me.
What is it about us males that makes us so very, very stupid in such very, very predictable ways?
I do seriously wonder if any of this would happen at all in a world without testosterone.
Dear oh dear, more break-time mayhem in the little boys' kindergarten. They both make complete fools of themselves if you ask me.
What is it about us males that makes us so very, very stupid in such very, very predictable ways?
I do seriously wonder if any of this would happen at all in a world without testosterone.
In reply to lummox:
Maybe, but do they go at each other in this idiotic way when they do? In that clip, it's the blah blah blah after the initial idiocy that I find really toe-curling.
Maybe, but do they go at each other in this idiotic way when they do? In that clip, it's the blah blah blah after the initial idiocy that I find really toe-curling.
In reply to Tim Chappell:
I've often wondered a similar thing but I think (according to Dr Who) you end up with the cybermen.
Cheers
Toby
I've often wondered a similar thing but I think (according to Dr Who) you end up with the cybermen.
Cheers
Toby
In reply to lummox:
I can confidently say that women also drive dangerously if that helps?
But they don't generally have bald heads and drive bright red XJ's which is obviously of no help whatsoever...
I can confidently say that women also drive dangerously if that helps?
But they don't generally have bald heads and drive bright red XJ's which is obviously of no help whatsoever...
In reply to Rigid Raider:
Lets get this right.
The cycling fraternity, have decided to try and ruin a mans livelihood because he swore and said rude things to one of them.
Lets get this right.
The cycling fraternity, have decided to try and ruin a mans livelihood because he swore and said rude things to one of them.
In reply to FactorXXX:
I drive and ride commute daily and am amazed that people driving company vehicles, which have contact details emblazoned all over them, haven't got the native wit to realise that they are very, very easily traceable if they act like twunts and are filmed by the increasing number of riders with lid mounted cameras.
I drive and ride commute daily and am amazed that people driving company vehicles, which have contact details emblazoned all over them, haven't got the native wit to realise that they are very, very easily traceable if they act like twunts and are filmed by the increasing number of riders with lid mounted cameras.
In reply to FactorXXX:
Yep, let's have him! And if you drive like that FactorXXX we'll have you too!
> Lets get this right.
> The cycling fraternity, have decided to try and ruin a mans livelihood because he swore and said rude things to one of them.
Yep, let's have him! And if you drive like that FactorXXX we'll have you too!
In reply to FactorXXX:
Let's get this right. Baldy Simon Templar sped over the roundabout without any care or attention, then returned to swear and threaten the rider with his details emblazoned over his wank mobile.
Let's get this right. Baldy Simon Templar sped over the roundabout without any care or attention, then returned to swear and threaten the rider with his details emblazoned over his wank mobile.
In reply to lummox:
haven't got the native wit to realise that they are very, very easily traceable if they act like twunts and are filmed by the increasing number of riders with lid mounted cameras.
Yes, if a driver does something incredibly stupid and that is down to gross negligence, distinct lack of due care and attention, etc. then fair enough, perhaps post a video clip of the incident.
Then again, I think that should be a last resort and only if the Police/CPS are unwilling and/or unable to prosecute, etc.
However, to post, what are to all intents minor incidents and then try and conduct a witch hunt including ruining livelihoods is a bit strange to say the least.
haven't got the native wit to realise that they are very, very easily traceable if they act like twunts and are filmed by the increasing number of riders with lid mounted cameras.
Yes, if a driver does something incredibly stupid and that is down to gross negligence, distinct lack of due care and attention, etc. then fair enough, perhaps post a video clip of the incident.
Then again, I think that should be a last resort and only if the Police/CPS are unwilling and/or unable to prosecute, etc.
However, to post, what are to all intents minor incidents and then try and conduct a witch hunt including ruining livelihoods is a bit strange to say the least.
In reply to FactorXXX:
Bad cycling fraternity.
Read the rest of the threads, his own business behaviour has already done this on the petrol head forums and his behaviour on the road will further add to his reputation.
Do you think it's horribly unfair, who is to blame for this poor mans mis-fortunes with regard to his reputation?
Your own behaviour only reflects on you, everyone will watch that clip and judge him on his. If I really want the measure of a person I'll look at them when they're tired out, stressed OR they think no one is watching/will have no comeback.
Cheers
Toby
Bad cycling fraternity.
Read the rest of the threads, his own business behaviour has already done this on the petrol head forums and his behaviour on the road will further add to his reputation.
Do you think it's horribly unfair, who is to blame for this poor mans mis-fortunes with regard to his reputation?
Your own behaviour only reflects on you, everyone will watch that clip and judge him on his. If I really want the measure of a person I'll look at them when they're tired out, stressed OR they think no one is watching/will have no comeback.
Cheers
Toby
In reply to FactorXXX:
Any viewers of the YouTube video will be able to decide for themselves if they want to do business with him without guidance from cyclists.
Any viewers of the YouTube video will be able to decide for themselves if they want to do business with him without guidance from cyclists.
In reply to FactorXXX:
Head cams are wide angle, therefore fact, "I would have been surprised" an acknowledgment of supposition.
it was bad driving and potentialy dangerous
> (In reply to jethro kiernan)
>
>
> Pure supposition and not an ounce of actual fact.
>
>
> Pure supposition and not an ounce of actual fact.
Head cams are wide angle, therefore fact, "I would have been surprised" an acknowledgment of supposition.
it was bad driving and potentialy dangerous
In reply to FactorXXX:
But if it is a minor incident the YouTube viewers will judge it like you do resulting in no damage to his business.
But if it is a minor incident the YouTube viewers will judge it like you do resulting in no damage to his business.
Post edited at 10:18
In reply to lummox:
Let's get this right. Baldy Simon Templar sped over the roundabout without any care or attention, then returned to swear and threaten the rider with his details emblazoned over his wank mobile.
I'm not defending the motorists actions in any way shape or form.
However, what prompted the motorist to return in the first place?
He'd already sounded his horn to show his displeasure.
Maybe the cyclist did something similarly? Tossed the Vic? Pumped his open fist vigorously...
I just think it's all been blown out of proportion and that both parties should have shrugged their shoulders and got on with their day.
Let's get this right. Baldy Simon Templar sped over the roundabout without any care or attention, then returned to swear and threaten the rider with his details emblazoned over his wank mobile.
I'm not defending the motorists actions in any way shape or form.
However, what prompted the motorist to return in the first place?
He'd already sounded his horn to show his displeasure.
Maybe the cyclist did something similarly? Tossed the Vic? Pumped his open fist vigorously...
I just think it's all been blown out of proportion and that both parties should have shrugged their shoulders and got on with their day.
In reply to FactorXXX:
So if a cyclist expresses displeasure at crap drivers that is provocation but blowing the horn rather than apologising isn't?
So if a cyclist expresses displeasure at crap drivers that is provocation but blowing the horn rather than apologising isn't?
In reply to Toby_W:
Read the rest of the threads, his own business behaviour has already done this on the petrol head forums and his behaviour on the road will further add to his reputation.
I have no problem with his business failing if he is professionally inept or corrupt.
However, I do find it a bit disturbing that people are willing to destroy his livelihood based on a short video clip of a minor altercation.
Read the rest of the threads, his own business behaviour has already done this on the petrol head forums and his behaviour on the road will further add to his reputation.
I have no problem with his business failing if he is professionally inept or corrupt.
However, I do find it a bit disturbing that people are willing to destroy his livelihood based on a short video clip of a minor altercation.
In reply to elsewhere:
So if a cyclist expresses displeasure at crap drivers that is provocation but blowing the horn rather than apologising isn't?
They swapped hand gestures/beeping of horns and then had a discussion which involved swearing. It wasn't even particularly heated and yet, that seems to warrant destroying his livelihood.
So if a cyclist expresses displeasure at crap drivers that is provocation but blowing the horn rather than apologising isn't?
They swapped hand gestures/beeping of horns and then had a discussion which involved swearing. It wasn't even particularly heated and yet, that seems to warrant destroying his livelihood.
In reply to FactorXXX:
The more idiot drivers become aware that dangerous driving around cyclists may lead to them ending up on the internet then great, it can only lead to these idiots become safer and more accountable.
The more idiot drivers become aware that dangerous driving around cyclists may lead to them ending up on the internet then great, it can only lead to these idiots become safer and more accountable.
In reply to FactorXXX:
I understand your concerns on this, but he obviously has an understanding of the power of internet social media because he has/had a large presence online so losing his cool on a camera openly declared was foolish.
A lot of cyclists come across this type of bad driving on a daily basis and something like this brings out all the pent up frustration not always a pleasant sight.
If you make your living from driving or the motor trade then dont drive like a knob
I understand your concerns on this, but he obviously has an understanding of the power of internet social media because he has/had a large presence online so losing his cool on a camera openly declared was foolish.
A lot of cyclists come across this type of bad driving on a daily basis and something like this brings out all the pent up frustration not always a pleasant sight.
If you make your living from driving or the motor trade then dont drive like a knob
In reply to FactorXXX:
It was the cyclist's horn, not the drivers
> (In reply to lummox)
> He'd already sounded his horn to show his displeasure.
> He'd already sounded his horn to show his displeasure.
It was the cyclist's horn, not the drivers
In reply to balmybaldwin:
A simple observation based on experience.
If your first natural reaction is to blow the horn then it wasn't really a near miss.
Beyond that it appears to be a video of two shouty people
> It was the cyclist's horn, not the drivers
A simple observation based on experience.
If your first natural reaction is to blow the horn then it wasn't really a near miss.
Beyond that it appears to be a video of two shouty people
In reply to timjones:
Not sure how you've worked that out that it wasn't a near miss, stop the video at 15 seconds and you'll see that the cyclist is well on the roundabout as the car approaches, if the cyclist was one second earlier or the car a couple of miles an hour slower there would have been a crash.
> A simple observation based on experience.
> If your first natural reaction is to blow the horn then it wasn't really a near miss.
> Beyond that it appears to be a video of two shouty people
Not sure how you've worked that out that it wasn't a near miss, stop the video at 15 seconds and you'll see that the cyclist is well on the roundabout as the car approaches, if the cyclist was one second earlier or the car a couple of miles an hour slower there would have been a crash.
Post edited at 11:01
In reply to yesbutnobutyesbut:
Because in my experience if you have time to blow the horn rather than taking avoiding action then there is invariably more space than you thought. When the threat is serious you just don't blast away on the horn!
I can only wonder if those who think otherwise have ever had a genuine near miss.
> Not sure how you've worked that out that it wasn't a near miss, stop the video at 15 seconds and you'll see that the cyclist is well on the roundabout as the car approaches, if the cyclist was one second earlier or the car a couple of miles an hour slower there would have been a crash.
Because in my experience if you have time to blow the horn rather than taking avoiding action then there is invariably more space than you thought. When the threat is serious you just don't blast away on the horn!
I can only wonder if those who think otherwise have ever had a genuine near miss.
In reply to timjones:
Yeah of course, a car coming within a couple of feet of hitting an oncoming cyclist is not serious!
The fact that all you can comment on is two shouty people rather than the appalling driving seems about par for all the cycling threads you seem to post on.
> Because in my experience if you have time to blow the horn rather than taking avoiding action then there is invariably more space than you thought. When the threat is serious you just don't blast away on the horn!
> I can only wonder if those who think otherwise have ever had a genuine near miss.
Yeah of course, a car coming within a couple of feet of hitting an oncoming cyclist is not serious!
The fact that all you can comment on is two shouty people rather than the appalling driving seems about par for all the cycling threads you seem to post on.
In reply to FactorXXX: I do quite understand the point you're making and agree with you in fact, but this is the modern world and the internet has replaced word of mouth down the pub.
This will have little effect or just add to his bad rep, if it adds in a negative way he could kill this with a swift and sincere apology on that forum. I would hope he'd be forgiven as we all make mistakes and at times fall below our best ideals of good driving/behaviour
Cheers
Toby
This will have little effect or just add to his bad rep, if it adds in a negative way he could kill this with a swift and sincere apology on that forum. I would hope he'd be forgiven as we all make mistakes and at times fall below our best ideals of good driving/behaviour
Cheers
Toby
In reply to FactorXXX:
it's difficault to discuss this without playing what i call the "parent" card.
do you cycle factorXXX? we all make mistakes on the road (well most people if they are honest do). the difference when you are driving a car is that your mistake can and does cost someone an injury and / or death. (several thousand a year in the UK alone!) many cyclists feel that drivers who behave like the one in the video are actively disregarding other road users (we've all seen the arguements on line) these cyclists often feel it's only a matter of time before a guy like this knocks a cyclist or a pedestrain over and seriously injures or kills them (again see the point above about number of injures / deaths... this is a real, actual concern, not some wishy washy 1 person a year dies from licking a 9v battery type statistic so lets ban batterys) they don't want to be this guys mistake statistic. falling off your bike by yourself hurts enough without the extra help from a car!
also adrenaline kicks in when your life is suddenly placed in danger so sometimes the reponse seems over the top to the driver who is surrounded by a car and thus doesn't feel anything bad just happened. if every day on your commute to work by car involved a near miss with a big much faster truck who didn't see you or nearly crushed your car just to save themselves from giving way at a round about, you'd probably get a bit wound up too?
worth wreaking his livelyhood over? is he not responsible for that himself? as others have said... advertise your business on your car / van etc... expect others will use that info to voice their displeasure at your attitude.
perhaps people have drawn a conculsion about this guys disregard for other users as a parrallel for his disregard for his customers too? turns out in his case that conclusion appears valid.
i changed my occasional cycle commute to use more cycle paths even though it now takes twice as long for this very reason. my user name quite correctly identifies me as an enthusatic car driver too. the problem with drivers like the one in the video is they think their mistakes have no consequence so sometimes people like to remind them that it does... just not in the way they expect.
sorry if that all sounds preachy / patronising
> the man clearly has a problem and needs professional attention.
> What problem?
> Swearing?
> If he was physically aggressive, perhaps, but to try and destroy someone's livlihood for a bit of heated swearing is a bit over the top...
> Even so, if he was physically aggressive, shouldn't it be a Police matter?
> What problem?
> Swearing?
> If he was physically aggressive, perhaps, but to try and destroy someone's livlihood for a bit of heated swearing is a bit over the top...
> Even so, if he was physically aggressive, shouldn't it be a Police matter?
it's difficault to discuss this without playing what i call the "parent" card.
do you cycle factorXXX? we all make mistakes on the road (well most people if they are honest do). the difference when you are driving a car is that your mistake can and does cost someone an injury and / or death. (several thousand a year in the UK alone!) many cyclists feel that drivers who behave like the one in the video are actively disregarding other road users (we've all seen the arguements on line) these cyclists often feel it's only a matter of time before a guy like this knocks a cyclist or a pedestrain over and seriously injures or kills them (again see the point above about number of injures / deaths... this is a real, actual concern, not some wishy washy 1 person a year dies from licking a 9v battery type statistic so lets ban batterys) they don't want to be this guys mistake statistic. falling off your bike by yourself hurts enough without the extra help from a car!
also adrenaline kicks in when your life is suddenly placed in danger so sometimes the reponse seems over the top to the driver who is surrounded by a car and thus doesn't feel anything bad just happened. if every day on your commute to work by car involved a near miss with a big much faster truck who didn't see you or nearly crushed your car just to save themselves from giving way at a round about, you'd probably get a bit wound up too?
worth wreaking his livelyhood over? is he not responsible for that himself? as others have said... advertise your business on your car / van etc... expect others will use that info to voice their displeasure at your attitude.
perhaps people have drawn a conculsion about this guys disregard for other users as a parrallel for his disregard for his customers too? turns out in his case that conclusion appears valid.
i changed my occasional cycle commute to use more cycle paths even though it now takes twice as long for this very reason. my user name quite correctly identifies me as an enthusatic car driver too. the problem with drivers like the one in the video is they think their mistakes have no consequence so sometimes people like to remind them that it does... just not in the way they expect.
sorry if that all sounds preachy / patronising
In reply to rallymania:
Because of a blind old man, dazzled by the sun who didn't properly look left and right before pulling out one of our TT riders last night has now:
Broken front and back pelvis
Front and back shoulder
Hip
5 ribs
Damage to lungs
and blood pool in abdomen
He won't be riding for a very long time
> Why not? He came pretty close to destroying the cyclist actual life.
Because of a blind old man, dazzled by the sun who didn't properly look left and right before pulling out one of our TT riders last night has now:
Broken front and back pelvis
Front and back shoulder
Hip
5 ribs
Damage to lungs
and blood pool in abdomen
He won't be riding for a very long time
In reply to yesbutnobutyesbut:
The quality of the video makes it rather hard to pass a fair judgement on just how "appalling" the driving was. I admire your faith in your belief that you can accurately gauge distances from tne video but the fact that the cyclist was able to sound his horn rather than braking hard rings an alarm bell in my mind as to how near the miss really was.
We all have near misses, most of us don't aggravate the situation and then post a video of the results on the web. Does it serve a useful purpose or does it escalate divisions between different groups of road users?
> Yeah of course, a car coming within a couple of feet of hitting an oncoming cyclist is not serious!
> The fact that all you can comment on is two shouty people rather than the appalling driving seems about par for all the cycling threads you seem to post on.
The quality of the video makes it rather hard to pass a fair judgement on just how "appalling" the driving was. I admire your faith in your belief that you can accurately gauge distances from tne video but the fact that the cyclist was able to sound his horn rather than braking hard rings an alarm bell in my mind as to how near the miss really was.
We all have near misses, most of us don't aggravate the situation and then post a video of the results on the web. Does it serve a useful purpose or does it escalate divisions between different groups of road users?
In reply to timjones:
It seems to me that a significant part of the aggravation came from the car driver who stopped and then reversed in order to confront the cyclist. Does that kind of reaction help or hinder things?
> The quality of the video makes it rather hard to pass a fair judgement on just how "appalling" the driving was. I admire your faith in your belief that you can accurately gauge distances from tne video but the fact that the cyclist was able to sound his horn rather than braking hard rings an alarm bell in my mind as to how near the miss really was.
> We all have near misses, most of us don't aggravate the situation and then post a video of the results on the web.
It seems to me that a significant part of the aggravation came from the car driver who stopped and then reversed in order to confront the cyclist. Does that kind of reaction help or hinder things?
In reply to yesbutnobutyesbut:
Same video, you just seem a bit quicker to pass judgement and dust the pitchfork off!
My observation is still that if you're in serious danger you don't reach for the horn as your first reaction.
> You must be looking at a different video to me!
Same video, you just seem a bit quicker to pass judgement and dust the pitchfork off!
My observation is still that if you're in serious danger you don't reach for the horn as your first reaction.
In reply to tony:
Two shouty people with loud horns. It takes 2 to make an argument as my mum used to say.
> It seems to me that a significant part of the aggravation came from the car driver who stopped and then reversed in order to confront the cyclist. Does that kind of reaction help or hinder things?
Two shouty people with loud horns. It takes 2 to make an argument as my mum used to say.
In reply to timjones:
I really hope your whole contrarian thing is just a way of trolling/passing the time.
I really hope your whole contrarian thing is just a way of trolling/passing the time.
In reply to timjones:
again tim this comes down to the cyclists perception of their own life being threatened... by riding on the road they have not agreed to be treated with utter disregard by a small minority of other road users who don't care about the mayhem actions like theirs cause every day.
you think the driver stopping and reversing off a roundabout onto a road is somehow better than the guy posting the video on youtube?
how about... if the driver hadn't behaved in this way in the first place, there would have been no need for a video on youtube?
again tim this comes down to the cyclists perception of their own life being threatened... by riding on the road they have not agreed to be treated with utter disregard by a small minority of other road users who don't care about the mayhem actions like theirs cause every day.
you think the driver stopping and reversing off a roundabout onto a road is somehow better than the guy posting the video on youtube?
how about... if the driver hadn't behaved in this way in the first place, there would have been no need for a video on youtube?
In reply to timjones:
So tell at what point in any of that video was the driver doing the right thing?
> Same video, you just seem a bit quicker to pass judgement and dust the pitchfork off!
> My observation is still that if you're in serious danger you don't reach for the horn as your first reaction.
So tell at what point in any of that video was the driver doing the right thing?
In reply to yesbutnobutyesbut:
Not sure how you've worked that out that it wasn't a near miss, stop the video at 15 seconds and you'll see that the cyclist is well on the roundabout as the car approaches, if the cyclist was one second earlier or the car a couple of miles an hour slower there would have been a crash.
Can't really see the point in trying to analyse what happened/what could have happened from a video shot from one angle alone and one that doesn't include the cyclist himself.
In all probability, the onus of blame is on the motorist, but it certainly isn't as definitive as some so readily want to believe.
It certainly doesn't warrant a witch hunt and the seeking of ruining someone's livelihood, which is what has happened.
Not sure how you've worked that out that it wasn't a near miss, stop the video at 15 seconds and you'll see that the cyclist is well on the roundabout as the car approaches, if the cyclist was one second earlier or the car a couple of miles an hour slower there would have been a crash.
Can't really see the point in trying to analyse what happened/what could have happened from a video shot from one angle alone and one that doesn't include the cyclist himself.
In all probability, the onus of blame is on the motorist, but it certainly isn't as definitive as some so readily want to believe.
It certainly doesn't warrant a witch hunt and the seeking of ruining someone's livelihood, which is what has happened.
In reply to FactorXXX:
If I drove like that in a company vehicle I'd expect to be reported to my employer and then at least given a warning and wouldn't be surprised if I was sacked on the spot.
If I drove like that in a company vehicle I'd expect to be reported to my employer and then at least given a warning and wouldn't be surprised if I was sacked on the spot.
In reply to lummox:
Surely the entire thread is just a way of passing time if that's how you are going to look at it?
> I really hope your whole contrarian thing is just a way of trolling/passing the time.
Surely the entire thread is just a way of passing time if that's how you are going to look at it?
It's a pity insurers don't offer a 'no videos discount' to reward careful driving.
In reply to FactorXXX:
at about second 12 the cyclist looks right to check for oncoming traffic and pulls onto the roundabout.
about 2 seconds later the car pulls onto the roundabout and passes across the cyclist path.
oh that's right... maybe the cyclist is wearing urban camoflage in which case the car driver couldn't have seen him? lol
> In all probability, the onus of blame is on the motorist, but it certainly isn't as definitive as some so readily want to believe.
at about second 12 the cyclist looks right to check for oncoming traffic and pulls onto the roundabout.
about 2 seconds later the car pulls onto the roundabout and passes across the cyclist path.
oh that's right... maybe the cyclist is wearing urban camoflage in which case the car driver couldn't have seen him? lol
In reply to timjones:
If this was car on car I would expect the car that nearly got crashed into, to slow down and sound the horn. Why can we not expect the same from a bike?
If this was car on car I would expect the car that nearly got crashed into, to slow down and sound the horn. Why can we not expect the same from a bike?
In reply to rallymania:
It may be utter disregard due to a concious decision to go for it and expect the smaller vehicle to give way, it may be a misjudgement of relative speeds or it may be a case of not seeing the other vehicle. Either way we have a video of 2 people who are on edge because they have both had a fright arguing with one another. It would probably have been better if the video had been edited to finish before the shouting started.
As above without seeing the drivers view as he approached the roundabout and maybe the cyclists body language and actions after the blasting of horns it's harsh to judge IMO.
Where do things start and where do they stop? We all make mistakes, we all lose our cool occasionally. I'd anticipate that for me it would certainly stop during the cooling off period before the conscious act of posting the video on youtube.
> again tim this comes down to the cyclists perception of their own life being threatened... by riding on the road they have not agreed to be treated with utter disregard by a small minority of other road users who don't care about the mayhem actions like theirs cause every day.
It may be utter disregard due to a concious decision to go for it and expect the smaller vehicle to give way, it may be a misjudgement of relative speeds or it may be a case of not seeing the other vehicle. Either way we have a video of 2 people who are on edge because they have both had a fright arguing with one another. It would probably have been better if the video had been edited to finish before the shouting started.
> you think the driver stopping and reversing off a roundabout onto a road is somehow better than the guy posting the video on youtube?
As above without seeing the drivers view as he approached the roundabout and maybe the cyclists body language and actions after the blasting of horns it's harsh to judge IMO.
> how about... if the driver hadn't behaved in this way in the first place, there would have been no need for a video on youtube?
Where do things start and where do they stop? We all make mistakes, we all lose our cool occasionally. I'd anticipate that for me it would certainly stop during the cooling off period before the conscious act of posting the video on youtube.
In reply to FactorXXX:
if the driver had returned and said... actually i'm sorry about that, i should have given way to you on the roundabout seeing as you were already on it... sorry if i gave you a fright, i'll be a bit more cautious of cyclists in future, how do you think this witch hunt would have gone?
if the driver had returned and said... actually i'm sorry about that, i should have given way to you on the roundabout seeing as you were already on it... sorry if i gave you a fright, i'll be a bit more cautious of cyclists in future, how do you think this witch hunt would have gone?
In reply to rallymania:
if the driver had returned and said... actually i'm sorry about that, i should have given way to you on the roundabout seeing as you were already on it... sorry if i gave you a fright, i'll be a bit more cautious of cyclists in future, how do you think this witch hunt would have gone?
There probably wouldn't be one, but doesn't that somewhat prove my earlier point, that the witch hunt is being conducted because someone got sworn at and had rude things said to them?
if the driver had returned and said... actually i'm sorry about that, i should have given way to you on the roundabout seeing as you were already on it... sorry if i gave you a fright, i'll be a bit more cautious of cyclists in future, how do you think this witch hunt would have gone?
There probably wouldn't be one, but doesn't that somewhat prove my earlier point, that the witch hunt is being conducted because someone got sworn at and had rude things said to them?
In reply to rallymania:
If he was clad from head to toe in dayglo green there is no excuse for not seeing him, if he is dressed in black lycra there may be more reason to believe that the driver didn't spot him. We don't have the full picture.
> at about second 12 the cyclist looks right to check for oncoming traffic and pulls onto the roundabout.
> about 2 seconds later the car pulls onto the roundabout and passes across the cyclist path.
> oh that's right... maybe the cyclist is wearing urban camoflage in which case the car driver couldn't have seen him? lol
If he was clad from head to toe in dayglo green there is no excuse for not seeing him, if he is dressed in black lycra there may be more reason to believe that the driver didn't spot him. We don't have the full picture.
In reply to rallymania:
about 2 seconds later the car pulls onto the roundabout and passes across the cyclist path.
He actually passes in front of the cyclist, but as I have said, it appears that the motorist was more to blame for the perceived 'Near Miss' than the cyclist.
Also, as far as I'm aware, it's perfectly legal to enter a roundabout when another road user is already on it.
about 2 seconds later the car pulls onto the roundabout and passes across the cyclist path.
He actually passes in front of the cyclist, but as I have said, it appears that the motorist was more to blame for the perceived 'Near Miss' than the cyclist.
Also, as far as I'm aware, it's perfectly legal to enter a roundabout when another road user is already on it.
In reply to timjones:
Watch the video without the distracting sound. It's pretty clear to me the driver is at fault and approached and entered the roundabout too fast without properly looking. That he stops and comes back shouting like that suggests he knows he was in the wrong. That the cyclist has bothered to mount a loud horn on his bike does also suggest he is rather aggressive too though.
> It may be utter disregard due to a concious decision to go for it and expect the smaller vehicle to give way, it may be a misjudgement of relative speeds or it may be a case of not seeing the other vehicle.
Watch the video without the distracting sound. It's pretty clear to me the driver is at fault and approached and entered the roundabout too fast without properly looking. That he stops and comes back shouting like that suggests he knows he was in the wrong. That the cyclist has bothered to mount a loud horn on his bike does also suggest he is rather aggressive too though.
In reply to FactorXXX:
Are you being serious? How was the cyclist at fault in anyway whatsoever in the first 15 seconds of that video? The motorist 'more to blame' you are joking.
> about 2 seconds later the car pulls onto the roundabout and passes across the cyclist path.
> He actually passes in front of the cyclist, but as I have said, it appears that the motorist was more to blame for the perceived 'Near Miss' than the cyclist.
> Also, as far as I'm aware, it's perfectly legal to enter a roundabout when another road user is already on it.
Are you being serious? How was the cyclist at fault in anyway whatsoever in the first 15 seconds of that video? The motorist 'more to blame' you are joking.
In reply to timjones:
I trust you put on your hi-viz day-glo suit every time you cross a road. Any pedestrian in a black suit is clearly asking for it.
> If he was clad from head to toe in dayglo green there is no excuse for not seeing him, if he is dressed in black lycra there may be more reason to believe that the driver didn't spot him. We don't have the full picture.
I trust you put on your hi-viz day-glo suit every time you cross a road. Any pedestrian in a black suit is clearly asking for it.
In reply to Chris the Tall:
Asking for it?
That's a strange view on levels of risk and things that we might choose to do in order mitigate those risks.
Beyond that cyclists at roundabouts and pedestrians crossing roads are 2 very different things dictated by 2 very different sets of rules and conventions
> I trust you put on your hi-viz day-glo suit every time you cross a road. Any pedestrian in a black suit is clearly asking for it.
Asking for it?
That's a strange view on levels of risk and things that we might choose to do in order mitigate those risks.
Beyond that cyclists at roundabouts and pedestrians crossing roads are 2 very different things dictated by 2 very different sets of rules and conventions
In reply to timjones:
2 questions Tim.
1. At what point in the first 15 seconds of the video was the cyclist doing anything wrong or illegal?
2. At what point in the whole video does the motorist do the right thing?
2 questions Tim.
1. At what point in the first 15 seconds of the video was the cyclist doing anything wrong or illegal?
2. At what point in the whole video does the motorist do the right thing?
In reply to MG:
That seems like a fair summary. I'd say we have 2 seperate incidents.
The first driving part may be worthy of posting on youtube.
The decision to post the argument online leaves neither party looking very good IMO.
> Watch the video without the distracting sound. It's pretty clear to me the driver is at fault and approached and entered the roundabout too fast without properly looking. That he stops and comes back shouting like that suggests he knows he was in the wrong. That the cyclist has bothered to mount a loud horn on his bike does also suggest he is rather aggressive too though.
That seems like a fair summary. I'd say we have 2 seperate incidents.
The first driving part may be worthy of posting on youtube.
The decision to post the argument online leaves neither party looking very good IMO.
In reply to yesbutnobutyesbut:
The cyclist is in the right up until the point where he uses his horn to express anger or dipleasure rather than sound a warning. So he makes his first mistake within the first 15 seconds. Beyond that it goes downhill and neither party comes out of the verbal exchange looking very good.
> 2 questions Tim.
> 1. At what point in the first 15 seconds of the video was the cyclist doing anything wrong or illegal?
> 2. At what point in the whole video does the motorist do the right thing?
The cyclist is in the right up until the point where he uses his horn to express anger or dipleasure rather than sound a warning. So he makes his first mistake within the first 15 seconds. Beyond that it goes downhill and neither party comes out of the verbal exchange looking very good.
In reply to Chris the Tall:
"Any pedestrian in a black suit is clearly asking for it."
Reminded me of that rape poster...
Here's my edited version for you - please excuse my rudimentary art skills! :-P
http://www.vataxaccountancy.co.uk/12.jpg
"Any pedestrian in a black suit is clearly asking for it."
Reminded me of that rape poster...
Here's my edited version for you - please excuse my rudimentary art skills! :-P
http://www.vataxaccountancy.co.uk/12.jpg
In reply to Baron Weasel:
Good question. We don't even have a full picture of how he did respond and what exactly made the motorist come back?
Sometimes you sound your horn in anger and nothing happens, sometimes it winds people up.
Maybe that is why it should only be used as a warning as the Highway Code says?
> How should the cyclist have responded then Tim?
Good question. We don't even have a full picture of how he did respond and what exactly made the motorist come back?
Sometimes you sound your horn in anger and nothing happens, sometimes it winds people up.
Maybe that is why it should only be used as a warning as the Highway Code says?
In reply to timjones:
You still haven't answered at what point the motorist does the right thing!
> The cyclist is in the right up until the point where he uses his horn to express anger or dipleasure rather than sound a warning. So he makes his first mistake within the first 15 seconds. Beyond that it goes downhill and neither party comes out of the verbal exchange looking very good.
You still haven't answered at what point the motorist does the right thing!
In reply to timjones:
If you wish to use the highway code against the cyclist you may want to look up the bit about giving priority to traffic from the right on roundabouts, You may also like rule 187 - Watch out for and give plenty of room to cyclists and horseriders!
> Good question. We don't even have a full picture of how he did respond and what exactly made the motorist come back?
> Sometimes you sound your horn in anger and nothing happens, sometimes it winds people up.
> Maybe that is why it should only be used as a warning as the Highway Code says?
If you wish to use the highway code against the cyclist you may want to look up the bit about giving priority to traffic from the right on roundabouts, You may also like rule 187 - Watch out for and give plenty of room to cyclists and horseriders!
Post edited at 13:05
In reply to yesbutnobutyesbut:
Can I even it up be that voice of reason etc being a cyclist with a helmet cam and a motorist with a dash cam. I have seen some truly idiotic driving and cycling that I have video footage off.
some events i have seen in the last few months
cyclist on cycle path failed to stop at road junction and was struck by a car cuts and bruises but nothing major. Cyclists fault.
driver not seeing me (cycling) on a round a bout and pulled out. Drivers fault.
cyclist passing up the near side of a HGV with its indicators on and turning left. Cyclists fault
2 days ago cyclist on the Formby bypass - idiot... there is a separate cycle path the entire length of the road adjacent to it on both sides.
Car passing too closely to a cyclist i was car behind and i winced with how close it was. Deivers fault.
As far as I am concerned as a cyclist and a driver there are knobs on both sides plus there are many actions that are simply mistakes and human error. The whole witch hunt culture makes me uncomfortable.
> The more idiot drivers become aware that dangerous driving around cyclists may lead to them ending up on the internet then great, it can only lead to these idiots become safer and more accountable.
Can I even it up be that voice of reason etc being a cyclist with a helmet cam and a motorist with a dash cam. I have seen some truly idiotic driving and cycling that I have video footage off.
some events i have seen in the last few months
cyclist on cycle path failed to stop at road junction and was struck by a car cuts and bruises but nothing major. Cyclists fault.
driver not seeing me (cycling) on a round a bout and pulled out. Drivers fault.
cyclist passing up the near side of a HGV with its indicators on and turning left. Cyclists fault
2 days ago cyclist on the Formby bypass - idiot... there is a separate cycle path the entire length of the road adjacent to it on both sides.
Car passing too closely to a cyclist i was car behind and i winced with how close it was. Deivers fault.
As far as I am concerned as a cyclist and a driver there are knobs on both sides plus there are many actions that are simply mistakes and human error. The whole witch hunt culture makes me uncomfortable.
In reply to Alan M:
Couldn't agree more. Like most cyclists I'm also a driver and see things from both sides. The difference is usually that an idiot cyclist will hurt themselves and an idiot driver will hurt someone else. If the incident in the video had involved a collision who would have been worse off?
There is never the excuse to drive dangerously near a cyclist because you have seen another cyclist riding badly.
Couldn't agree more. Like most cyclists I'm also a driver and see things from both sides. The difference is usually that an idiot cyclist will hurt themselves and an idiot driver will hurt someone else. If the incident in the video had involved a collision who would have been worse off?
There is never the excuse to drive dangerously near a cyclist because you have seen another cyclist riding badly.
In reply to yesbutnobutyesbut:
Are you being serious? How was the cyclist at fault in anyway whatsoever in the first 15 seconds of that video? The motorist 'more to blame' you are joking.
Without having similar footage of the cyclist, it's impossible to completely negate him from blame or at least be a contributory factor.
As I've said a few times, the motorist appears to be 'more to blame' for the perceived near miss, but it certainly isn't cut and dried.
To reinstate the crux of this whole discussion, do you really think the incident warrants the man having his livelihood ruined?
Are you being serious? How was the cyclist at fault in anyway whatsoever in the first 15 seconds of that video? The motorist 'more to blame' you are joking.
Without having similar footage of the cyclist, it's impossible to completely negate him from blame or at least be a contributory factor.
As I've said a few times, the motorist appears to be 'more to blame' for the perceived near miss, but it certainly isn't cut and dried.
To reinstate the crux of this whole discussion, do you really think the incident warrants the man having his livelihood ruined?
In reply to FactorXXX:
Yes, horrible little man
> To reinstate the crux of this whole discussion, do you really think the incident warrants the man having his livelihood ruined?
Yes, horrible little man
In reply to FactorXXX:
You are talking rubbish. The cyclist is at no fault whatsover for the car entering the roundabout too fast without checking it was safe to do so.
As I said previously if I drove like that in a company vehicle I'd expect to be reported and at least get a warning if not the sack.
You are talking rubbish. The cyclist is at no fault whatsover for the car entering the roundabout too fast without checking it was safe to do so.
As I said previously if I drove like that in a company vehicle I'd expect to be reported and at least get a warning if not the sack.
In reply to FactorXXX:
https://www.gov.uk/using-the-road-159-to-203/roundabouts-184-to-190
from the video you can see the cyclist slow down and look right before entering the roundabout...IF the car driver had done that would this incident have happened? probably not. even if the cyclist was wearing black how has he contributed to this incident untill the motorist returns?
do you think the cyclist could also legally claim he was using his horn to warn the driver of his presence seeing as the driver "didn't see him"?
at this point i still don't see how the cyclist could be legally contributable in this case...
look at the video again.
was it dark? nope!
raining or visiblity reduced? nope!
ok, how about sunlight obstructing the drivers view of the cyclist?... the sun appears from the video to be infront of the cyclist (look at the clouds as the cyclist approaches the roundabout.. sun appears to be behind the clouds so not dazzling the driver if he'd looked at the cyclist) so Nope!
even if he was wearing black would he have been legally liable? nope! the highway code does not say you MUST wear bright visible clothing, it does suggest you do, but it's not legally enforceable at present.
what scenario do you see the cyclist as contributing to the initial "near miss"?
https://www.gov.uk/using-the-road-159-to-203/roundabouts-184-to-190
from the video you can see the cyclist slow down and look right before entering the roundabout...IF the car driver had done that would this incident have happened? probably not. even if the cyclist was wearing black how has he contributed to this incident untill the motorist returns?
do you think the cyclist could also legally claim he was using his horn to warn the driver of his presence seeing as the driver "didn't see him"?
at this point i still don't see how the cyclist could be legally contributable in this case...
look at the video again.
was it dark? nope!
raining or visiblity reduced? nope!
ok, how about sunlight obstructing the drivers view of the cyclist?... the sun appears from the video to be infront of the cyclist (look at the clouds as the cyclist approaches the roundabout.. sun appears to be behind the clouds so not dazzling the driver if he'd looked at the cyclist) so Nope!
even if he was wearing black would he have been legally liable? nope! the highway code does not say you MUST wear bright visible clothing, it does suggest you do, but it's not legally enforceable at present.
what scenario do you see the cyclist as contributing to the initial "near miss"?
In reply to timjones:
When did the driver make his first mistake?
> The cyclist is in the right up until the point where he uses his horn to express anger or dipleasure rather than sound a warning. So he makes his first mistake within the first 15 seconds.
When did the driver make his first mistake?
In reply to yesbutnobutyesbut:
Maybe you'd better tell me what you think "the right thing" is?
> You still haven't answered at what point the motorist does the right thing!
Maybe you'd better tell me what you think "the right thing" is?
In reply to yesbutnobutyesbut:
Which part of the there are 2 incidents here don't you comprehend.
The motorist should have given way.
The situation escalated from the point where the cyclist sounded his horn far too late to justify it as a warning.
> If you wish to use the highway code against the cyclist you may want to look up the bit about giving priority to traffic from the right on roundabouts, You may also like rule 187 - Watch out for and give plenty of room to cyclists and horseriders!
Which part of the there are 2 incidents here don't you comprehend.
The motorist should have given way.
The situation escalated from the point where the cyclist sounded his horn far too late to justify it as a warning.
In reply to tony:
When he failed to give way. the interesting question is was it due to lack of attention, misjudgement or pure recklessness?
The answer must surely bethat only the driver will ever really know.
> When did the driver make his first mistake?
When he failed to give way. the interesting question is was it due to lack of attention, misjudgement or pure recklessness?
The answer must surely bethat only the driver will ever really know.
In reply to rallymania:
Have I said he contributed to it?
Only 2 people can know the real circumstances of this incident, the driver and the cyclist. It's a shame that they both lost their rag instead of remaining civil to one another.
> what scenario do you see the cyclist as contributing to the initial "near miss"?
Have I said he contributed to it?
Only 2 people can know the real circumstances of this incident, the driver and the cyclist. It's a shame that they both lost their rag instead of remaining civil to one another.
In reply to timjones:
At last !! you've acknowledged the motorist was in the wrong.
The situation actually escalated from the point the car entered the roundabout dangerously.
If the motorist had been driving properly there wouldn't have been any 'incident'.
At last !! you've acknowledged the motorist was in the wrong.
The situation actually escalated from the point the car entered the roundabout dangerously.
If the motorist had been driving properly there wouldn't have been any 'incident'.
In reply to woolsack:
And the cyclist who doesn't appear to be any less horrible?
> Yes, horrible little man
And the cyclist who doesn't appear to be any less horrible?
In reply to yesbutnobutyesbut:
Bo//0cks.
The driver enteriung the roundabout was the incident, it didn't need to escalate at all!
> At last !! you've acknowledged the motorist was in the wrong.
> The situation actually escalated from the point the car entered the roundabout dangerously.
> If the motorist had been driving properly there wouldn't have been any 'incident'.
Bo//0cks.
The driver enteriung the roundabout was the incident, it didn't need to escalate at all!
In reply to timjones:
You're right, the driver's mistake was the incident, and it didn't need to escalate, and it wouldn't have done so if the driver hadn't stopped and reversed back to confront the cyclist.
> Bo//0cks.
> The driver enteriung the roundabout was the incident, it didn't need to escalate at all!
You're right, the driver's mistake was the incident, and it didn't need to escalate, and it wouldn't have done so if the driver hadn't stopped and reversed back to confront the cyclist.
In reply to timjones:
but then when did your name become factorxxx? he suggested it not you, i did reply to him
look, if these two guys had met in the pub and driver punched cyclist, would you be surpised if the cyclist punched him back? you are right in that both of them aren't exactly covered in glory, but people react to the way you treat them, treat them bad, well why shouldn't they stand up to you? some people handle stress better than others, some people handle stress better on a monday than a friday.
while in hindsight the cyclist should ahve remained calm, i think you'll find most people find that quite hard to do when confronted with something that gave them a serious fright (fear of being run over will do that to you)
anyway i think i've comunicated my view point and it's time i got back to work
but then when did your name become factorxxx? he suggested it not you, i did reply to him
look, if these two guys had met in the pub and driver punched cyclist, would you be surpised if the cyclist punched him back? you are right in that both of them aren't exactly covered in glory, but people react to the way you treat them, treat them bad, well why shouldn't they stand up to you? some people handle stress better than others, some people handle stress better on a monday than a friday.
while in hindsight the cyclist should ahve remained calm, i think you'll find most people find that quite hard to do when confronted with something that gave them a serious fright (fear of being run over will do that to you)
anyway i think i've comunicated my view point and it's time i got back to work
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