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A couple of weeks ago I was in contact with my ex-boss, a basically intelligent chap, from about twenty years ago. At that time he must have weighed about twenty stone and yet was only of average height(circa 5' 9") His weight was clearly down to fat rather than muscle and I remember that his lunch times tended to be taken up with computer games and consuming McDonalds. Conversations with him also suggested that most of his spare time at home was taken up with similar activities. From what I could see I doubt that his diet was healthy.
Anyway, I spoke to him recently and it turns out that he is now diabetic, has myeloma and is about to acquire a mobility scooter. He is 59 - by modern standards not that old.
It got me wondering why some people seem to go through life being not particularly bothered about their health whilst others do make an effort to keep themselves fit and healthy and whether those who seem to neglect themselves would choose a different option if they were able to see how they might finish up.
Post edited at 11:46
In reply to mypyrex:
I believe it is head in the sand mentality.
As an example, I smoke. I know its bad for me, I know its screwing up my lungs. I've seen first hand the kind of death it can lead to. Oddly, it still doesn't motivate me to stop.
I believe it is head in the sand mentality.
As an example, I smoke. I know its bad for me, I know its screwing up my lungs. I've seen first hand the kind of death it can lead to. Oddly, it still doesn't motivate me to stop.
In reply to balmybaldwin:
No hope for you then
> I believe it is head in the sand mentality.
> As an example, I smoke. I know its bad for me, I know its screwing up my lungs. I've seen first hand the kind of death it can lead to. Oddly, it still doesn't motivate me to stop.
No hope for you then
In reply to mypyrex:
Perhaps it’s a case of how high it is on an individual’s importance agenda.
People are happy to leave health while they feel ok on the back burner, unknowingly, hurtling towards a bigger problem later down the line, for which is then a little too late to deal with.
Some people catch it at the right time and turn their lives around and others not so.
I don't get though, how people find getting out such a big problem if they are physically able to do so. Maybe its just a lack of interest and more so laziness.
Jason
Perhaps it’s a case of how high it is on an individual’s importance agenda.
People are happy to leave health while they feel ok on the back burner, unknowingly, hurtling towards a bigger problem later down the line, for which is then a little too late to deal with.
Some people catch it at the right time and turn their lives around and others not so.
I don't get though, how people find getting out such a big problem if they are physically able to do so. Maybe its just a lack of interest and more so laziness.
Jason
Post edited at 12:02
In reply to mypyrex:
People really have to reach a watershed in their attitudes before they begin to take an interest in their health. Once that decision has been reached people are usually relieved and will go at the job with zeal, which is probably why they say there is nobody more ardently against smoking than an ex-smoker. I reached similar but smaller watersheds when I gave up sugar and started spending more time on dental hygiene and then later in life, re-started cycling.
People really have to reach a watershed in their attitudes before they begin to take an interest in their health. Once that decision has been reached people are usually relieved and will go at the job with zeal, which is probably why they say there is nobody more ardently against smoking than an ex-smoker. I reached similar but smaller watersheds when I gave up sugar and started spending more time on dental hygiene and then later in life, re-started cycling.
Post edited at 12:07
In reply to lone:
I think that's the crux of the problem. The other problem, I feel, is that by the time such serious ailments are identified in those who have neglected themselves they are then less able to deal with any treatment that has to be administered.
> People are happy to leave health while they feel ok on the back burner, unknowingly, hurtling towards a bigger problem later down the line, for which is then a little too late to deal with.
I think that's the crux of the problem. The other problem, I feel, is that by the time such serious ailments are identified in those who have neglected themselves they are then less able to deal with any treatment that has to be administered.
In reply to mypyrex:
I should probably point out, that in many ways I'm healthier than average... I barely drink, I'm a good weight, I excercise a lot, and I have a healthy diet
I should probably point out, that in many ways I'm healthier than average... I barely drink, I'm a good weight, I excercise a lot, and I have a healthy diet
In reply to balmybaldwin:
I was only joking
> I should probably point out, that in many ways I'm healthier than average... I barely drink, I'm a good weight, I excercise a lot, and I have a healthy diet
I was only joking
In reply to balmybaldwin:
Because the consequences of smoking are so far away from the current cigarette. I know because I was a smoker too. So few seem to give up based on future health issues in my experience.
Because the consequences of smoking are so far away from the current cigarette. I know because I was a smoker too. So few seem to give up based on future health issues in my experience.
In reply to mypyrex:
It's still odd though, as I thoroughly understand how bad it is for me, but I've haven't yet wanted to be a non smoker... the thought is growing on me (but very slowly)
It's still odd though, as I thoroughly understand how bad it is for me, but I've haven't yet wanted to be a non smoker... the thought is growing on me (but very slowly)
In reply to balmybaldwin:
Things like weight aren't usually overnight problems - you don't put on 20Kg in a day - the weight goes on over several years, decades even. So you don't notice the extra gramme or two each day but it builds up to the point where it really is a problem. By this time your body is accustomed to this new state so it sees it as normal which is why crash diets don't work as your body is trying to maintain what it sees as normal.
Smoking is an interesting addiction, it's often been said that it wouldn't be allowed if it was introduced now. Nicotine is very addictive: a friend who smoked just one or two roll-ups a day was in intensive care after an accident and was on a morphine drip said that going cold turkey from that was easier than giving up cigarettes.
Things like weight aren't usually overnight problems - you don't put on 20Kg in a day - the weight goes on over several years, decades even. So you don't notice the extra gramme or two each day but it builds up to the point where it really is a problem. By this time your body is accustomed to this new state so it sees it as normal which is why crash diets don't work as your body is trying to maintain what it sees as normal.
Smoking is an interesting addiction, it's often been said that it wouldn't be allowed if it was introduced now. Nicotine is very addictive: a friend who smoked just one or two roll-ups a day was in intensive care after an accident and was on a morphine drip said that going cold turkey from that was easier than giving up cigarettes.
In reply to mypyrex:
It completely stumps me why anyone would neglect their body so much.
Personally, I like my life, it's the only one I have and I want to extend it for as long as possible, in as comfortable a fashion a possible. For me the logical first step is to keep myself healthy so that my old age will be potentially more bearable, with as few medical issues and as much mobility as possible for as long as possible. I can't see why anyone could feel any differently to that. The fact that I thoroughly enjoy exercise may bias my opinion somewhat, keeping fit is not a chore for me, but even if it were, I like to think that I could still keep myself healthy.
After all, there is quite a void between my current lifestlye (10 hours of physical activity a week and a strict diet) and the kind of lifestyle that means you look like Jabba the Hut in silhouette...
I'd never expect everyone to be fitness crazy and get super healthy (mostly because all the routes would be packed on a weekend) but I can't believe people can't keep the chinese takeaway off of their speed dial and maybe go for a walk now and then.
It completely stumps me why anyone would neglect their body so much.
Personally, I like my life, it's the only one I have and I want to extend it for as long as possible, in as comfortable a fashion a possible. For me the logical first step is to keep myself healthy so that my old age will be potentially more bearable, with as few medical issues and as much mobility as possible for as long as possible. I can't see why anyone could feel any differently to that. The fact that I thoroughly enjoy exercise may bias my opinion somewhat, keeping fit is not a chore for me, but even if it were, I like to think that I could still keep myself healthy.
After all, there is quite a void between my current lifestlye (10 hours of physical activity a week and a strict diet) and the kind of lifestyle that means you look like Jabba the Hut in silhouette...
I'd never expect everyone to be fitness crazy and get super healthy (mostly because all the routes would be packed on a weekend) but I can't believe people can't keep the chinese takeaway off of their speed dial and maybe go for a walk now and then.
In reply to mypyrex:
No flies on you, Sherlock!
> From what I could see I doubt that his diet was healthy.
No flies on you, Sherlock!
In reply to mypyrex:
It's harder than you think sometimes.
I work away a lot, exercise is curtailed by the 7am starts and by the time you get back to the hotel at 8pm all you want is food, a pint and bed.
Hotel food is uniformly high in calories, even the salads.
It's quite hard to avoid growing sideways.
It's harder than you think sometimes.
I work away a lot, exercise is curtailed by the 7am starts and by the time you get back to the hotel at 8pm all you want is food, a pint and bed.
Hotel food is uniformly high in calories, even the salads.
It's quite hard to avoid growing sideways.
In reply to Blue Straggler:
Yeah but, no but......when I'm in ASDA in the summer and see the 'young' morbidly obese, lumbering around supported by a trolley. You have to wonder Wtf has gone wrong with evolution?!
> No flies on you, Sherlock!
Yeah but, no but......when I'm in ASDA in the summer and see the 'young' morbidly obese, lumbering around supported by a trolley. You have to wonder Wtf has gone wrong with evolution?!
In reply to dek:
Nothing - when the lions get out of the zoo you won't even have to break a sweat!
> when I'm in ASDA in the summer and see the 'young' morbidly obese, lumbering around supported by a trolley. You have to wonder Wtf has gone wrong with evolution?!
Nothing - when the lions get out of the zoo you won't even have to break a sweat!
In reply to mypyrex:
Im often repulsed by the far too frequently obese persons waddling around, equally replused by the skinny yellow skinned limp haired smokers.
Everybody has a choice whether its a logical one or not, not everybody cares about either their health or their lifespan. Id imagine a lot of people live just because they are alive and its only a few of us who realise that we only have one chance at life and want to make the most of it.
This topic has come up before in different guises on ukc, and equally importantly was noted the other end of the spectrum of being active and healthy can be damaging. Eg I cycle and have had many minor accidents, which could easily one day leave me malformed crippled or dear. The same applies to climbers.
After considering this, just live life the way you want and realise that all paths have their own consequences.
Im often repulsed by the far too frequently obese persons waddling around, equally replused by the skinny yellow skinned limp haired smokers.
Everybody has a choice whether its a logical one or not, not everybody cares about either their health or their lifespan. Id imagine a lot of people live just because they are alive and its only a few of us who realise that we only have one chance at life and want to make the most of it.
This topic has come up before in different guises on ukc, and equally importantly was noted the other end of the spectrum of being active and healthy can be damaging. Eg I cycle and have had many minor accidents, which could easily one day leave me malformed crippled or dear. The same applies to climbers.
After considering this, just live life the way you want and realise that all paths have their own consequences.
In reply to dek:
Evolution is doing just fine - when the food runs out the fitter skinny ones will chase down and eat the fatties queing up at the now derelict Mcdonalds drive thru.
Evolution is doing just fine - when the food runs out the fitter skinny ones will chase down and eat the fatties queing up at the now derelict Mcdonalds drive thru.
In reply to Bob:
It's odd isn't it? We've a lot of attractive, young, Eastern Europeans in this area recently, I've rarely seen a 'chubby' one never mind a fatty!
> Nothing - when the lions get out of the zoo you won't even have to break a sweat!
It's odd isn't it? We've a lot of attractive, young, Eastern Europeans in this area recently, I've rarely seen a 'chubby' one never mind a fatty!
In reply to ow arm:
It's also fair to say you being repulsed by the way someone looks suggests you lack empathy and humanity ... try changing fat and yellow for disabled and black in your post.
"Malformed and Crippled" .... oh dear
It's also fair to say you being repulsed by the way someone looks suggests you lack empathy and humanity ... try changing fat and yellow for disabled and black in your post.
"Malformed and Crippled" .... oh dear
In reply to dek:
I was in Hungary, Serbia, Croatia and Bosnia last month and hardly saw a single fat person. People walk a lot and their diet is still relatively un-industrialised.
At my son's school all the infant school teachers are obese and quite a lot of parents are too. Presumably this means that generation of children is growing up to see the round shape as normal and the slim shape as abnormal.
I was in Hungary, Serbia, Croatia and Bosnia last month and hardly saw a single fat person. People walk a lot and their diet is still relatively un-industrialised.
At my son's school all the infant school teachers are obese and quite a lot of parents are too. Presumably this means that generation of children is growing up to see the round shape as normal and the slim shape as abnormal.
In reply to dek:
I have a lot of friends from various east European countries and ALL of them tell me that one of the most noticeable things in their own countries is how fat people are getting compared with how they were 20 years ago. probably something to do with western fast foods being available in their countries now. but the people I know do seem to eat a lot healthier then we do in britain
I have a lot of friends from various east European countries and ALL of them tell me that one of the most noticeable things in their own countries is how fat people are getting compared with how they were 20 years ago. probably something to do with western fast foods being available in their countries now. but the people I know do seem to eat a lot healthier then we do in britain
In reply to balmybaldwin:
Please let that thought grow a bit more quickly. I buried my best friend on Tuesday.
> It's still odd though, as I thoroughly understand how bad it is for me, but I've haven't yet wanted to be a non smoker... the thought is growing on me (but very slowly)
Please let that thought grow a bit more quickly. I buried my best friend on Tuesday.
In reply to Rigid Raider:
Yes, I went to Morocco last year and have been twice to Nepal. Much the same there.
> I was in Hungary, Serbia, Croatia and Bosnia last month and hardly saw a single fat person.
Yes, I went to Morocco last year and have been twice to Nepal. Much the same there.
In reply to dek:
You evolved into an ASDA shopper!
> You have to wonder Wtf has gone wrong with evolution?!
You evolved into an ASDA shopper!
In reply to dek:
Obviously you're joking, because it has sweet FA to do with evolution, and all to do with affluent people overeating (and a complete lack of evolution of the human brain i.e. human greed etc. remaining unchanged and always overruling rationality.)
> Yeah but, no but......when I'm in ASDA in the summer and see the 'young' morbidly obese, lumbering around supported by a trolley. You have to wonder Wtf has gone wrong with evolution?!
Obviously you're joking, because it has sweet FA to do with evolution, and all to do with affluent people overeating (and a complete lack of evolution of the human brain i.e. human greed etc. remaining unchanged and always overruling rationality.)
In reply to mypyrex:
Perhaps he didn't have the annual motivation of not wanting to get stuck in the chimney...
Perhaps he didn't have the annual motivation of not wanting to get stuck in the chimney...
In reply to dek:
It has nothing to do with evolution. Evolution takes thousands of years, the obesity epidemic has only taken a couple of dozen years.
The English diet is very Americanized compared to countries like France, Spain and Italy. Fructose is added to just about every product on your supermarket shelf, especially low fat products and fructose will put weight on people more than anything else you can put in your mouth and swallow.
Most of Europe... England aside, have a low fructose diet. Away from the bigger cities in France, most of what goes on the table is fresh home cooked produce. If you want to buy a ready meal in most French supermarkets you will find the portion size tiny, the choice minimal and the price excessive. French don't snack between meals, portion sizes are smaller and children are not permitted to drink things like Cole or eat sweets unless its a special occasion.
In the UK kids drink super sized Cola and seem to eat sweets every day. Supermarkets are full of tempting fattening foods and fresh produce is more expensive than ready meals.
Then there's metabolism but I recently read a report that said 35% of slim people in the UK have high cholesterol by the time they hit 40. Skinny people can also be ill on the inside whilst looking healthy on the outside.
> Yeah but, no but......when I'm in ASDA in the summer and see the 'young' morbidly obese, lumbering around supported by a trolley. You have to wonder Wtf has gone wrong with evolution?!
It has nothing to do with evolution. Evolution takes thousands of years, the obesity epidemic has only taken a couple of dozen years.
The English diet is very Americanized compared to countries like France, Spain and Italy. Fructose is added to just about every product on your supermarket shelf, especially low fat products and fructose will put weight on people more than anything else you can put in your mouth and swallow.
Most of Europe... England aside, have a low fructose diet. Away from the bigger cities in France, most of what goes on the table is fresh home cooked produce. If you want to buy a ready meal in most French supermarkets you will find the portion size tiny, the choice minimal and the price excessive. French don't snack between meals, portion sizes are smaller and children are not permitted to drink things like Cole or eat sweets unless its a special occasion.
In the UK kids drink super sized Cola and seem to eat sweets every day. Supermarkets are full of tempting fattening foods and fresh produce is more expensive than ready meals.
Then there's metabolism but I recently read a report that said 35% of slim people in the UK have high cholesterol by the time they hit 40. Skinny people can also be ill on the inside whilst looking healthy on the outside.
In reply to dek:
How fast do you think evolution works?
> Yeah but, no but......when I'm in ASDA in the summer and see the 'young' morbidly obese, lumbering around supported by a trolley. You have to wonder Wtf has gone wrong with evolution?!
How fast do you think evolution works?
In reply to redsonja:
Look at films/videos of general life in the UK in the 1970s and most people in them are "thin" with only a few comparable to today's norm. Whether they were "healthy" is obviously harder to determine.
Look at films/videos of general life in the UK in the 1970s and most people in them are "thin" with only a few comparable to today's norm. Whether they were "healthy" is obviously harder to determine.
In reply to mypyrex:
Can you get rugged off-road type mobility scooters....with cig lighters?...just wondering like...
Can you get rugged off-road type mobility scooters....with cig lighters?...just wondering like...
In reply to PeterM:
It seems you can:
http://www.accessmagazine.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2013/07/PX-IMG_3634.jpg
(One of many)
> Can you get rugged off-road type mobility scooters....with cig lighters?...just wondering like...
It seems you can:
http://www.accessmagazine.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2013/07/PX-IMG_3634.jpg
(One of many)
In reply to DaCat:
If only that were true.
I can assure you that some of them do. Obesity is an increasing problem in France too.
> Most of Europe... England aside, have a low fructose diet.
If only that were true.
> French don't snack between meals
I can assure you that some of them do. Obesity is an increasing problem in France too.
In reply to PeterM:
I like your style!
> Can you get rugged off-road type mobility scooters....with cig lighters?...just wondering like...
I like your style!
Post edited at 15:11
In reply to PeterM:
Yep: http://discovery.landrover.com/gb
> Can you get rugged off-road type mobility scooters....with cig lighters?...just wondering like...
Yep: http://discovery.landrover.com/gb
In reply to cander:
Id say lacking in empathy is probably true, but its not just the way they look, its the way they are physically and mentally.
And whats being of a particular colour skin or disabled got to do with anything? they arent choices theyve made
> It's also fair to say you being repulsed by the way someone looks suggests you lack empathy and humanity ... try changing fat and yellow for disabled and black in your post.
Id say lacking in empathy is probably true, but its not just the way they look, its the way they are physically and mentally.
And whats being of a particular colour skin or disabled got to do with anything? they arent choices theyve made
In reply to ow arm:
It is if you're Michael Jackson..
Anyway, I was talking to a friend earlier who's just swapped normal cigarettes for e-cigarettes. He's worked out that he's now inhaling 4x more nicotine per day than he was from his 5-a-day habit. It made us wonder how much 'better' for you these electronic ones are..
> (In reply to cander)
> And whats being of a particular colour skin or disabled got to do with anything? they arent choices theyve made
It is if you're Michael Jackson..
Anyway, I was talking to a friend earlier who's just swapped normal cigarettes for e-cigarettes. He's worked out that he's now inhaling 4x more nicotine per day than he was from his 5-a-day habit. It made us wonder how much 'better' for you these electronic ones are..
In reply to Douglas Griffin:
The reason the French have little fructose in their diet is, they eat from mainly fresh ingredients. Preserves and shop bought sauces may well contain fructose but they are eaten in such moderation that consumption is minuscule in comparison to the UK and America.
In France you are brought up not to snack between meals. Children are allowed a snack at around 4pm. Adults tend not to eat breakfast but a lot of us have a main meal (which is never large) just after midday and in the evening a small meal. Everyone here eats a lot of cheese, in fact cheese goes into 70% of prepared food and yet cheese is fat. Fat isn't the problem, it never has been. Fat and sugar together though is very bad.
Whilst you may think that France has an increasing obesity problem, it is still one of the lowest in Europe. Where I live, the average woman weighs around 100lbs or less, though she tends to be smaller in height than her English cousin. You only have to go in a boutique in many parts of France to see they don't sell clothes for the bigger person. English size 12 is difficult to find in a boutique. Clearly there is no market to sell the bigger size.
I don't know what part of France you live or hang out in to believe French people are getting bigger?
> If only that were true.
> I can assure you that some of them do. Obesity is an increasing problem in France too.
The reason the French have little fructose in their diet is, they eat from mainly fresh ingredients. Preserves and shop bought sauces may well contain fructose but they are eaten in such moderation that consumption is minuscule in comparison to the UK and America.
In France you are brought up not to snack between meals. Children are allowed a snack at around 4pm. Adults tend not to eat breakfast but a lot of us have a main meal (which is never large) just after midday and in the evening a small meal. Everyone here eats a lot of cheese, in fact cheese goes into 70% of prepared food and yet cheese is fat. Fat isn't the problem, it never has been. Fat and sugar together though is very bad.
Whilst you may think that France has an increasing obesity problem, it is still one of the lowest in Europe. Where I live, the average woman weighs around 100lbs or less, though she tends to be smaller in height than her English cousin. You only have to go in a boutique in many parts of France to see they don't sell clothes for the bigger person. English size 12 is difficult to find in a boutique. Clearly there is no market to sell the bigger size.
I don't know what part of France you live or hang out in to believe French people are getting bigger?
In reply to ow arm:
You keep making ridiculous assertions, it's exactly the same mind set as a bigot - you see fat, you assume "useless chav" (or whatever pigeon hole you have for those you think less worthy) - hows that different to the racist who looks at black skin and thinks less worthy? You think fat = someone who chose to stuff themselves with junk food, there's a whole raft of reasons why people are overweight and it's not all about personal choice.
You keep making ridiculous assertions, it's exactly the same mind set as a bigot - you see fat, you assume "useless chav" (or whatever pigeon hole you have for those you think less worthy) - hows that different to the racist who looks at black skin and thinks less worthy? You think fat = someone who chose to stuff themselves with junk food, there's a whole raft of reasons why people are overweight and it's not all about personal choice.
In reply to Bob:
Good grief, you'd have to be in a really bad way with huge man-titties to need one of those monstrosities..
Good grief, you'd have to be in a really bad way with huge man-titties to need one of those monstrosities..
In reply to PeterM:
<complete generalisation>Have you seen who does drive them?</complete generalisation>
> Good grief, you'd have to be in a really bad way with huge man-titties to need one of those monstrosities..
<complete generalisation>Have you seen who does drive them?</complete generalisation>
In reply to DaCat:
The average woman where you live being just over 7 stone? Seriously? Unless the women in question are something ridiculous like 5', then how is that healthy? They'd blow away in a strong wind. I'd like to see some evidence for that assertion as it sounds a little suspicious to me.
The average woman where you live being just over 7 stone? Seriously? Unless the women in question are something ridiculous like 5', then how is that healthy? They'd blow away in a strong wind. I'd like to see some evidence for that assertion as it sounds a little suspicious to me.
Post edited at 16:32
In reply to mypyrex:
I think it follows similar lines to how some people strive to look after their emotional and spiritual wellbeing whilst others always manage to find something to complain about.
I think it follows similar lines to how some people strive to look after their emotional and spiritual wellbeing whilst others always manage to find something to complain about.
In reply to patrick_b:
Apparently it's very difficult to work out the nicotine intake.
Anyway, at least he's not inhaling between 4 to 7000 nasties everytime.
I bet feels a hell of a lot better now, I do. And richer, more cash to spend on beer!
> > Anyway, I was talking to a friend earlier who's just swapped normal cigarettes for e-cigarettes. He's worked out that he's now inhaling 4x more nicotine per day than he was from his 5-a-day habit. It made us wonder how much 'better' for you these electronic ones are..
Apparently it's very difficult to work out the nicotine intake.
Anyway, at least he's not inhaling between 4 to 7000 nasties everytime.
I bet feels a hell of a lot better now, I do. And richer, more cash to spend on beer!
In reply to mypyrex:
The motivational triad and the pleasure trap could explain why some people become overweight.
foods have changed.
The motivational triad and the pleasure trap could explain why some people become overweight.
foods have changed.
In reply to gd303uk:
I'v seen both of those on Youporn and I'm struggling to see the link...
> The motivational triad and the pleasure trap could explain why some people become overweight.
I'v seen both of those on Youporn and I'm struggling to see the link...
In reply to cander:
Erm.... Just so you know, most people get fat because they eat to much. How you can possibly compare that to skin colour is utterly beyond me.
Are you repulsed by the sight of a gaping open wound? That's a biological response engineered into our brains to make us not want to get injured. It wouldn't surprise me if something similar was there for morbid obesity.
Also, being repulsed by the sight of something and lacking empathy for it are two very different things.
> It's also fair to say you being repulsed by the way someone looks suggests you lack empathy and humanity ... try changing fat and yellow for disabled and black in your post.
Erm.... Just so you know, most people get fat because they eat to much. How you can possibly compare that to skin colour is utterly beyond me.
Are you repulsed by the sight of a gaping open wound? That's a biological response engineered into our brains to make us not want to get injured. It wouldn't surprise me if something similar was there for morbid obesity.
Also, being repulsed by the sight of something and lacking empathy for it are two very different things.
In reply to redsonja:
Sorry! I'm a lanky bugger so I can't imagine being that small - if I weighed that little I'd blow away!
Sorry! I'm a lanky bugger so I can't imagine being that small - if I weighed that little I'd blow away!
In reply to wintertree:
'Are you repulsed by the sight of a gaping open wound? That's a biological response engineered into our brains to make us not want to get injured. It wouldn't surprise me if something similar was there for morbid obesity.
'
Er .. the exact opposite is the case. We have evolved to gorge on fat and sugar whenever we can, it's just that in the natural world these commodities are in short supply. Chocolate is popular (and devastating) because it's a delivery system for fat, sugar and stimulants - pretty neat, eh!
Yet you have some of the most talented and creative people in the world - if not the most ethical - dedicated to persuading us that things go better with coke, a nibble of chocolate will waft you to a dream world, that a burger and chips is an appropriate snack in between 'proper meals'.
'Are you repulsed by the sight of a gaping open wound? That's a biological response engineered into our brains to make us not want to get injured. It wouldn't surprise me if something similar was there for morbid obesity.
'
Er .. the exact opposite is the case. We have evolved to gorge on fat and sugar whenever we can, it's just that in the natural world these commodities are in short supply. Chocolate is popular (and devastating) because it's a delivery system for fat, sugar and stimulants - pretty neat, eh!
Yet you have some of the most talented and creative people in the world - if not the most ethical - dedicated to persuading us that things go better with coke, a nibble of chocolate will waft you to a dream world, that a burger and chips is an appropriate snack in between 'proper meals'.
In reply to Blue Straggler:
I've looked....and I've still no 'Bingo Wings'...
> You evolved into an ASDA shopper!
I've looked....and I've still no 'Bingo Wings'...
In reply to gd303uk:
Is this some sort of altruistic far eastern mafia-type organisation?
> The motivational triad
Is this some sort of altruistic far eastern mafia-type organisation?
In reply to PeterM:
hehe, oriental mafia forcing us to eat bad food, in a way
and
the pleasure we get from eating fattening food is instant, unlike exercise where we don't get a pleasure response immediately,( until endorphins help motivate us etc.)
hehe, oriental mafia forcing us to eat bad food, in a way
and
the pleasure we get from eating fattening food is instant, unlike exercise where we don't get a pleasure response immediately,( until endorphins help motivate us etc.)
Post edited at 17:15
In reply to cander:
You've got it all wrong, the big ones will hunker down and enjoy the many years' accumulation of excess energy they worked so hard to build.
You've got it all wrong, the big ones will hunker down and enjoy the many years' accumulation of excess energy they worked so hard to build.
In reply to Tall Clare:
Its easy to look up
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-1173148/British-women-dont-mind-E...
An average French woman will stand around 5.2" and so according to this report, the average French woman weighs less than 100lbs. French women are tiny.
> The average woman where you live being just over 7 stone? Seriously? Unless the women in question are something ridiculous like 5', then how is that healthy? They'd blow away in a strong wind. I'd like to see some evidence for that assertion as it sounds a little suspicious to me.
Its easy to look up
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-1173148/British-women-dont-mind-E...
An average French woman will stand around 5.2" and so according to this report, the average French woman weighs less than 100lbs. French women are tiny.
In reply to redsonja:
I'm 5'3" and 110lbs and I don't blow away in the wind either
> Im 5' and 7 stone- I don't think I'm ridiculous!!!
I'm 5'3" and 110lbs and I don't blow away in the wind either
In reply to gd303uk:
>we don't get a pleasure response immediately,( until endorphins help motivate us etc.)
Can't say I agree with that. When I have a session in the gym I usually find that my "high" comes almost immediately.
>we don't get a pleasure response immediately,( until endorphins help motivate us etc.)
Can't say I agree with that. When I have a session in the gym I usually find that my "high" comes almost immediately.
Post edited at 17:51
In reply to mypyrex:
did you not see the bit in paragraphs?
on your very first visit to the gym did those endorphins hit? but when you first had cake or biscuits it doesn't taste like hell and hurt. unless your eating it wrong
i used to go to the gym six days a week i understand the high from exercise and how it can become quite addictive.
did you not see the bit in paragraphs?
on your very first visit to the gym did those endorphins hit? but when you first had cake or biscuits it doesn't taste like hell and hurt. unless your eating it wrong
i used to go to the gym six days a week i understand the high from exercise and how it can become quite addictive.
Post edited at 18:04
In reply to DaCat:
The Daily Mail isn't the most reliable of sources of evidence, but I have to say I'm surprised that the average French woman is so short. One learns something new every day. Could it be ascribed to a poor diet?
The Daily Mail isn't the most reliable of sources of evidence, but I have to say I'm surprised that the average French woman is so short. One learns something new every day. Could it be ascribed to a poor diet?
In reply to DaCat:
There seems to be a lack of sources attached to that and given its the daily mail I would take it with a pinch of salt.
To throw in two other sources, which also arent necessarily accurate but show how uneasy it is to find out decent stats on this sort of thing.
Wiki reckons an average French woman is 5.4
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template:Average_height_around_the_world
Although that is 20-29 only.
A study by their fashion industry went for 5.3 and 133.6pounds.
http://www.nbcnews.com/id/11149568/ns/health-fitness/t/french-are-getting-t...
> An average French woman will stand around 5.2" and so according to this report, the average French woman weighs less than 100lbs. French women are tiny.
There seems to be a lack of sources attached to that and given its the daily mail I would take it with a pinch of salt.
To throw in two other sources, which also arent necessarily accurate but show how uneasy it is to find out decent stats on this sort of thing.
Wiki reckons an average French woman is 5.4
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template:Average_height_around_the_world
Although that is 20-29 only.
A study by their fashion industry went for 5.3 and 133.6pounds.
http://www.nbcnews.com/id/11149568/ns/health-fitness/t/french-are-getting-t...
In reply to balmybaldwin:
Which is probably how you mentally minimise the dangers of smoking, or the risks you're at of dying from it.
> I should probably point out, that in many ways I'm healthier than average... I barely drink, I'm a good weight, I excercise a lot, and I have a healthy diet
Which is probably how you mentally minimise the dangers of smoking, or the risks you're at of dying from it.
Post edited at 18:14
In reply to Tall Clare:
They have stronger gravity there. ()
> The Daily Mail isn't the most reliable of sources of evidence, but I have to say I'm surprised that the average French woman is so short. One learns something new every day. Could it be ascribed to a poor diet?
They have stronger gravity there. ()
In reply to DaCat:
My wife is French, and I've been going to her region (La Nièvre) for 25 years - generally once/yr, sometimes more. We watch the news on TV5 Monde most nights and items on obesity are fairly common.
Simply not true in my experience.
As for whether I'm right that people in France too are getting bigger, a second's Googling throws this up:
http://www.oecd.org/health/health-systems/obesityandtheeconomicsofpreventio...
Which seems to confirm that while obesity in France is still relatively low, it's getting higher.
Obesity rates in France are among the lowest in the OECD, but have been increasing steadily.
> I don't know what part of France you live or hang out in to believe French people are getting bigger?
My wife is French, and I've been going to her region (La Nièvre) for 25 years - generally once/yr, sometimes more. We watch the news on TV5 Monde most nights and items on obesity are fairly common.
> Adults tend not to eat breakfast but a lot of us have a main meal (which is never large) just after midday and in the evening a small meal.
Simply not true in my experience.
As for whether I'm right that people in France too are getting bigger, a second's Googling throws this up:
http://www.oecd.org/health/health-systems/obesityandtheeconomicsofpreventio...
Which seems to confirm that while obesity in France is still relatively low, it's getting higher.
Obesity rates in France are among the lowest in the OECD, but have been increasing steadily.
In reply to Tall Clare:
No surprise to me; statistically the French are the shortest in Europe (the Dutch being the tallest IIRC).
We see it in our kids' clothes - French sizes and UK sizes are quite different.
No surprise to me; statistically the French are the shortest in Europe (the Dutch being the tallest IIRC).
We see it in our kids' clothes - French sizes and UK sizes are quite different.
In reply to Tall Clare:
By the way, my wife is 5'4" and about 110lbs, I think. She was heavier when she was 21 and still lived in France...
By the way, my wife is 5'4" and about 110lbs, I think. She was heavier when she was 21 and still lived in France...
In reply to Rob Exile Ward:
Indeed - I am well aware that we have physiologically motivated cravings for energy rich food. However, I fail to see how that has any connection with how we perceive morbidly obese people (assuming we do not look on them as a source of food).
Many people who crave excess food will also have a pretty basic revulsion at the sight of something that evokes a primitive danger, and both of these are partly based in our evolution. Certainly there are studies that suggest our evolved sense of disgust is involved in revulsion to obesity - e.g. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21836644
So back to my original point - suggesting someone is morally inferior because of an evoked sense of disgust is, in my opinion, wrong. Now, how they reach a conscious decision and how they act, after recognising the evocation of unconscious feelings, that is where the judgmental readers can start to claim someone is lacking of empathy or whatever.
> In reply to wintertree:
> > 'Are you repulsed by the sight of a gaping open wound? That's a biological response engineered into our brains to make us not want to get injured. It wouldn't surprise me if something similar was there for morbid obesity.
> Er .. the exact opposite is the case. We have evolved to gorge on fat and sugar whenever we can, it's just that in the natural world these commodities are in short supply. Chocolate is popular (and devastating) because it's a delivery system for fat, sugar and stimulants - pretty neat, eh!
> > 'Are you repulsed by the sight of a gaping open wound? That's a biological response engineered into our brains to make us not want to get injured. It wouldn't surprise me if something similar was there for morbid obesity.
> Er .. the exact opposite is the case. We have evolved to gorge on fat and sugar whenever we can, it's just that in the natural world these commodities are in short supply. Chocolate is popular (and devastating) because it's a delivery system for fat, sugar and stimulants - pretty neat, eh!
Indeed - I am well aware that we have physiologically motivated cravings for energy rich food. However, I fail to see how that has any connection with how we perceive morbidly obese people (assuming we do not look on them as a source of food).
Many people who crave excess food will also have a pretty basic revulsion at the sight of something that evokes a primitive danger, and both of these are partly based in our evolution. Certainly there are studies that suggest our evolved sense of disgust is involved in revulsion to obesity - e.g. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21836644
So back to my original point - suggesting someone is morally inferior because of an evoked sense of disgust is, in my opinion, wrong. Now, how they reach a conscious decision and how they act, after recognising the evocation of unconscious feelings, that is where the judgmental readers can start to claim someone is lacking of empathy or whatever.
Post edited at 18:35
In reply to mypyrex:
In my dreamworld, Doctors should be able warn people that they will get ill if they don 't lose weight and that their free medication for that illness will then be at risk.
This should be recorded in their medical records. . If they then don't lose weight and do get ill, they should not get free medication for the illness that they brought upon themselves.
In my dreamworld, Doctors should be able warn people that they will get ill if they don 't lose weight and that their free medication for that illness will then be at risk.
This should be recorded in their medical records. . If they then don't lose weight and do get ill, they should not get free medication for the illness that they brought upon themselves.
In reply to Douglas Griffin:
If you are married to a French woman then you surely understand how obsessed French women are with their weight (I don't mean your wife. I mean in general). Oh hang on a minute, lets narrow this down. Where I come from, which is much more southerly than you and where my family live scattered around France, us women tend to be overly obsessed with our weight and that is why lots of television on obesity is viewed with interest.
Where I come from and where my family live scattered around France, we don't tend to eat breakfast, have a main meal just after mid day and in the evening we have a small meal.
If you are married to a French woman then you surely understand how obsessed French women are with their weight (I don't mean your wife. I mean in general). Oh hang on a minute, lets narrow this down. Where I come from, which is much more southerly than you and where my family live scattered around France, us women tend to be overly obsessed with our weight and that is why lots of television on obesity is viewed with interest.
Where I come from and where my family live scattered around France, we don't tend to eat breakfast, have a main meal just after mid day and in the evening we have a small meal.
In reply to Douglas Griffin:
Is it possibly incomers, rather than 'French' people that are increasing the obesity figures ?
> Which seems to confirm that while obesity in France is still relatively low, it's getting higher.
> Obesity rates in France are among the lowest in the OECD, but have been increasing steadily.
Is it possibly incomers, rather than 'French' people that are increasing the obesity figures ?
In reply to DaCat:
In 1990 I worked in the south (Var) for a couple of months, and I've spent some time there since. I think the diet is far more healthy in the south than it is further north; for a start, the cuisine is based on olive oil rather than butter.
From what I've seen with family and friends in the Nièvre, breakfast is never missed, lunch is usually fairly large (with cheese), and dinner is even larger (with more cheese). Bread eaten with every meal - more calories. Loads of meat. Loads of fresh fruit and veg from the garden too though, and it's true that they eat very little (if any) 'junk' food.
People in France are still thin compared to people here (in Scotland, where I live, it's even worse than in England) but the statistics would suggest that eating habits in France are changing, and not for the better.
In 1990 I worked in the south (Var) for a couple of months, and I've spent some time there since. I think the diet is far more healthy in the south than it is further north; for a start, the cuisine is based on olive oil rather than butter.
From what I've seen with family and friends in the Nièvre, breakfast is never missed, lunch is usually fairly large (with cheese), and dinner is even larger (with more cheese). Bread eaten with every meal - more calories. Loads of meat. Loads of fresh fruit and veg from the garden too though, and it's true that they eat very little (if any) 'junk' food.
People in France are still thin compared to people here (in Scotland, where I live, it's even worse than in England) but the statistics would suggest that eating habits in France are changing, and not for the better.
In reply to Jim C:
Whilst appreciating the sentiment, will that later be expanded to cover people who catch HIV due to promiscuity, who are injured in vehicles that don't have the optimum Euro NCAP rating , or who persist in indulging in sports that cause wear and tear on joints?
> In my dreamworld, Doctors should be able warn people that they will get ill if they don 't lose weight and that their free medication for that illness will then be at risk.
> This should be recorded in their medical records. . If they then don't lose weight and do get ill, they should not get free medication for the illness that they brought upon themselves.
Whilst appreciating the sentiment, will that later be expanded to cover people who catch HIV due to promiscuity, who are injured in vehicles that don't have the optimum Euro NCAP rating , or who persist in indulging in sports that cause wear and tear on joints?
In reply to mypyrex:
I remember watching a documentary about the normalising of obesity, one person interviewed described how whilst Eating out in a restaurant in America the seat he was sitting in collapsed under his weight, despite being told by his doctor numerous times that his health was in danger it was the social embarrassment of being dumped on his ass in front of a resteraunt full of people that was the tipping point for him addressing the health issues of obesity.
As a follow up point, he also related how he went back to the resteraunt a few months later having started to lose weight and the resteraunt manager came over and told him they were in the process of ordering reinforced chairs and tables (a growing niche in the furniture market) the guy actually convinced them not to go ahead as he believed that the normal chair collapsing under his abnormal weight was what potentially going to wake him up to the issue and possibly save his life.
I remember watching a documentary about the normalising of obesity, one person interviewed described how whilst Eating out in a restaurant in America the seat he was sitting in collapsed under his weight, despite being told by his doctor numerous times that his health was in danger it was the social embarrassment of being dumped on his ass in front of a resteraunt full of people that was the tipping point for him addressing the health issues of obesity.
As a follow up point, he also related how he went back to the resteraunt a few months later having started to lose weight and the resteraunt manager came over and told him they were in the process of ordering reinforced chairs and tables (a growing niche in the furniture market) the guy actually convinced them not to go ahead as he believed that the normal chair collapsing under his abnormal weight was what potentially going to wake him up to the issue and possibly save his life.
In reply to jethro kiernan:
Good call
>
> the guy actually convinced them not to go ahead as he believed that the normal chair collapsing under his abnormal weight was what potentially going to wake him up to the issue and possibly save his life.
Good call
In reply to Tall Clare:
My experience of French women is that they are thin, mainly becuase smoking is more acceptable there.
My experience of French women is that they are thin, mainly becuase smoking is more acceptable there.
In reply to Tall Clare:
Hey, nothing ridiculas about being 5 foot!! It is a perfectly sensible height!
> The average woman where you live being just over 7 stone? Seriously? Unless the women in question are something ridiculous like 5', then how is that healthy? They'd blow away in a strong wind. I'd like to see some evidence for that assertion as it sounds a little suspicious to me.
Hey, nothing ridiculas about being 5 foot!! It is a perfectly sensible height!
In reply to mypyrex:
I am currently guiding a group of French tourists around Scotland, and they are a pain when it comes to eating. They pick at their food. The dinner orders in restaurants are a pain as they want things without the sauce or this that and the other. Yeah, they are thin, but truely obsessive and too much hassle when food is involved. They hardly eat any veg either, and if they do they want it cooked to mush with skins taken off everything. They even peel apples before eating them! Sorry, that turned into a rant! I'm not long back from the restaurant, so must have needed to get that off my chest!
I am currently guiding a group of French tourists around Scotland, and they are a pain when it comes to eating. They pick at their food. The dinner orders in restaurants are a pain as they want things without the sauce or this that and the other. Yeah, they are thin, but truely obsessive and too much hassle when food is involved. They hardly eat any veg either, and if they do they want it cooked to mush with skins taken off everything. They even peel apples before eating them! Sorry, that turned into a rant! I'm not long back from the restaurant, so must have needed to get that off my chest!
In reply to mypyrex:
[Cue puerile p!ss taking from the usual suspects.]
I've often wondered if it's sexually driven. People, whatever age, who still have strong sex drives, or a strong desire for sex, look after themselves better. I know it's a motivating factor for me and the wife, as we want to keep ourselves fit and attractive for each other.
[/Cue puerile p!ss taking from the usual suspects.]
> It got me wondering why some people seem to go through life being not particularly bothered about their health whilst others do make an effort to keep themselves fit and healthy and whether those who seem to neglect themselves would choose a different option if they were able to see how they might finish up.
[Cue puerile p!ss taking from the usual suspects.]
I've often wondered if it's sexually driven. People, whatever age, who still have strong sex drives, or a strong desire for sex, look after themselves better. I know it's a motivating factor for me and the wife, as we want to keep ourselves fit and attractive for each other.
[/Cue puerile p!ss taking from the usual suspects.]
Post edited at 22:29
In reply to girlymonkey:
Sorry, that turned into a rant! I'm not long back from the restaurant, so must have needed to get that off my chest!
Funny that GM, until you told me that your post was a 'rant' , I had not perceived it as such. I point this out, as when I post, I am generally quite calm, but some people respond and seem to 'imagine' me to be hammering away at the keyboard in some kind of rage, which I can assure them I am not. ( although my refusing to get annoyed often somehow enrages my wife
Should perhaps people be encouraged to always prefix their posts with some kind of emotion symbol, as it seems to me that some people are misinterpreting others online demeanour . I may also posting to people who I. Imagine to be calm and reasoned, but may well not be.
Sorry, that turned into a rant! I'm not long back from the restaurant, so must have needed to get that off my chest!
Funny that GM, until you told me that your post was a 'rant' , I had not perceived it as such. I point this out, as when I post, I am generally quite calm, but some people respond and seem to 'imagine' me to be hammering away at the keyboard in some kind of rage, which I can assure them I am not. ( although my refusing to get annoyed often somehow enrages my wife
Should perhaps people be encouraged to always prefix their posts with some kind of emotion symbol, as it seems to me that some people are misinterpreting others online demeanour . I may also posting to people who I. Imagine to be calm and reasoned, but may well not be.
In reply to Jim C:
Lol, funny how we perceive a faceless message, eh?!
It didn't matter that you didn't feel my frustration, just writing it helped!
Lol, funny how we perceive a faceless message, eh?!
It didn't matter that you didn't feel my frustration, just writing it helped!
In reply to girlymonkey:
Apparently it's greener to be smaller, less energy/calories used to keep the body functioning, and other things which are less for smaller people.
> Hey, nothing ridiculas about being 5 foot!! It is a perfectly sensible height!
Apparently it's greener to be smaller, less energy/calories used to keep the body functioning, and other things which are less for smaller people.
Post edited at 00:25
In reply to ow arm:
What do you mean by mentally?
> Id say lacking in empathy is probably true, but its not just the way they look, its the way they are physically and mentally.
What do you mean by mentally?
Post edited at 01:08
In reply to DaCat:
hmmm...
http://www.nbcnews.com/id/11149568/ns/health-fitness/t/french-are-getting-t...
average weight 137.6 pounds (9 stone 11.6 pounds)
average height 5 foot 3 inches
survey carried out by a fashion industry association....
and it's only talking about women, because of the pressure on women to look a certain way, never mind anyone's health...
> Its easy to look up
hmmm...
http://www.nbcnews.com/id/11149568/ns/health-fitness/t/french-are-getting-t...
average weight 137.6 pounds (9 stone 11.6 pounds)
average height 5 foot 3 inches
survey carried out by a fashion industry association....
and it's only talking about women, because of the pressure on women to look a certain way, never mind anyone's health...
In reply to Douglas Griffin:
Oooeeerr
Sorry
> My wife is French, and I've been going to her region for 25 years
Oooeeerr
Sorry
In reply to girlymonkey:
Clare's own height is quite ridiculous, she's just projecting
(ONLY JOKING!)
As for me, I am ridiculously average
> Hey, nothing ridiculas about being 5 foot!! It is a perfectly sensible height!
Clare's own height is quite ridiculous, she's just projecting
(ONLY JOKING!)
As for me, I am ridiculously average
In reply to Tall Clare:
Damn - just pointed out to my wife that her height is ridiculous and now suspect I am to be relegated to the sofa tonight. Thanks a bunch!
> Unless the women in question are something ridiculous like 5'
Damn - just pointed out to my wife that her height is ridiculous and now suspect I am to be relegated to the sofa tonight. Thanks a bunch!
In reply to Tall Clare:
Double damn! Tried to redeem myself by consoling her in that at least she's in no danger of being blown away, and now I've just made it worse
> The average woman where you live being just over 7 stone? ... They'd blow away in a strong wind.
Double damn! Tried to redeem myself by consoling her in that at least she's in no danger of being blown away, and now I've just made it worse
In reply to mypyrex:
You can blame Paul Simon for having written 'Have a Good Time"
Maybe I’m laughing my way to disaster
Maybe my race has been run
Maybe I’m blind
To the fate of mankind
But what can be done?
Blind optimism can at times be helpful but not with the complexities of modern living.
You can blame Paul Simon for having written 'Have a Good Time"
Maybe I’m laughing my way to disaster
Maybe my race has been run
Maybe I’m blind
To the fate of mankind
But what can be done?
Blind optimism can at times be helpful but not with the complexities of modern living.
In reply to Tall Clare:
> I think it follows similar lines to how some people strive to look after their emotional and spiritual wellbeing whilst others always manage to find something to complain about.
In reply to eltankos:
Must be :-
If we are to make sexual innuendo in the style of Frankie Howard
Must be :-
> Oooeeerr Madame
If we are to make sexual innuendo in the style of Frankie Howard
In reply to AndrewW:
I took a young Polish visitor early 20's) to the Wallace monument on a windy day, my wife and I walked out on the very top and got a bit buffeted, but our visitor had to go back in as she was far to slim and light and WAS in danger of getting blown away.
(not sure my wife enjoyed that fact much, she was in no such danger)
> Double damn! Tried to redeem myself by consoling her in that at least she's in no danger of being blown away, and now I've just made it worse
I took a young Polish visitor early 20's) to the Wallace monument on a windy day, my wife and I walked out on the very top and got a bit buffeted, but our visitor had to go back in as she was far to slim and light and WAS in danger of getting blown away.
(not sure my wife enjoyed that fact much, she was in no such danger)
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