UKC

I am doing a design course at OU which involves coming up with an invention or an innovative step on an existing product. The idea is crampons that have points that are engaged as required. They are put on at the start of the day with the points engaged/disengaged as and when you need them. Still working on that aspect of it but has the advantage of not having to put them on/take them off throughout the day. What I'm interested in - if such a thing existed and worked reliably would you buy them?

Thanks

In reply to jcodcsmf: given the general assumption that 1 pound on the feet is equivalent to 5 pounds on the back, any extra weight on the feet due to the crampon function will increase the effort required even when they are not "activated".

In reply to jcodcsmf:

Absolutely not, I'm afraid. A climber's life depends on the effectiveness of those points and the thought that they are anything other than fixed and unmoveable would make me nervous for sure.

In reply to jcodcsmf:

there would definately be a place in the market for these, i wouldnt want them personally for the reasons above

In reply to jcodcsmf:

Second what BNB has said, if I wanted traction on my feet that would only do half a job I would buy some "pavement spike" style products.

How would you remove/add on points? It sounds like a solution to a problem that doesn't exist. It only takes a few minutes to put on crampons with cold gloved hands.

In reply to Cameron94:



Could be ideal on some awkward mixed alpine terrain.

In reply to jcodcsmf:
If you could come up with a design that would allow better (more compact) storage when being carried, I think that would have more interest. Current practise is to place points together, use a spike protector or use a bag. two of these add weight and the other one is less than ideal as you still have the sharp front points sticking out no matter which way you orientate them.

In reply to jcodcsmf:
Will they fit flip flops, could be useful on Aonach Mor.

In reply to jcodcsmf:

FYI, there is a patent already in existence for a boot that at the click of a switch 'grows' some points. Dates from 1800 and something...

In reply to jcodcsmf:

What you want is some little serrated lpates that you install on your boots permanently that you can use all the time and dont get in the way, but add grip on both rock and ice.

In reply to Cameron94:


I agree with this. Most modern crampon bindings are pretty easy to use even with gloves on.

How often do you need to 'engage and disengage' your crampon points anyway? Crampons work fine on rock once you're used to them IME. Presumably you'd still be left with the supporting framework on the bottom of the boot when the points were 'disengaged'. I think I'd rather have a set of nice sharp crome-moly steel points, that I know will hold on tiny rugosities, under my boot than a non-spiky metal framework which might skite about all over the rock.

Something which could easily withdraw fully in to the boot sole might be more useful, but that kind of system would probably need to be built in to the boot from the outset rather than being a separate crampon.

In reply to jcodcsmf:

If you could pull it off in a way that doesn't increase weight, doesn't reduce reliability, and doesn't affect boots' performance in other ways, I think this would be a great invention. All that is rather a tall order, however. Take a look a Fritschi harscheisen that are retractable, although the needs on skis are a bit different.

In contrast to some comments above, I find putting crampons on and off a real faff that interrupts the flow of climbing, particularly in the alps.

In reply to jcodcsmf:

I don't see many positives in this design innovation.

You're adding weight to boots you might be walking 10's of miles in before you ever need to deploy your crampons.

You limit crampon upgrade/replacement options by integrating them with the boot, you may want lightweight walking crampons for one trip but stiffer technical ones for another trip. Likewise boot options limited by investing in integrated units.

Then there's the strength/longevity issue, crampons have a very hard life and even solidly assembled ones often end up looking pretty sorry for themselves. I just don't see it being a practical proposition to have any kind of fancy pivoting/sliding mechanism under or in the sole of a boot without it adding a lot of weight and becoming vulnerable to damage/jamming.

Have you considered looking at a slightly different project? Perhaps lighter crampons using structural composites. Lots of scope there for an interesting project I'd have thought though the final product is likely still to be impractical for reasons of cost and robustness.

I guess what you actually wanted from this thread wasn't suggestions, just simple answers to your question: No I probably wouldn't buy them.

jk

In reply to jcodcsmf:

having considered previous replies which make some good points (see what I did there)perhps this idea gets more merit if we think about it not as a replacement to full-on rigid or semi-rigid steel crampons we'd use over mixed terrain or for steep climbing but rather as am option instead of light and compact aluminium crampons. These are better suited to snow and ice only non-technical terrain and your invention could work there. Then again the best thing about aluminium is their reduced weight so making a retractable crampon with the same performance (and weight) to aluminium ones could be a tall order...

In reply to Denzil:


How is this calculated, out of interest?

In reply to Removed UserBwox:

It's a rule of thumb born of by bitter and miserable experience.

This is exactly the kind of response I was looking for. This is the kind of information that I need to feedback into the project as market research. I would like to thank everyone who has offered an opinion both in support and those that couldn't see a benefit or saw no problem in the first place. Any more responses still appreciated.