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No 1: Got my rope trapped AGAIN on the abseil down to Ash Tree Ledge on Gimmer. There's a little spike in the line of the ab about 10 metres down from the top which the rope tends to lodge behind when pulling. On some occasions I've deliberately abbed sideways to the left and pulled the rope from above the big step on Ash Tree Ledge, which seems to have worked. This time I didn't and paid the price. But luckily there was another team not far behind us who were able to oblige. YOU HAVE BEEN WARNED!
No. 2 Potentially more serious is the in situ ab tat at Upper White Crag which is round a huge jammed flake. This appears to be held - just - in place (the flake, not the tat) by a small spike on the right. The flake was observed to move slightly under a climber's weight. There is a safer alternative (apart from walking down, which is rather awkward or at least time-consuming especially in the bracken season). There is a large block a bit further up the hillside which will take a very large sling and a single 50m rope will just reach from there. It might be a good idea to remove the tat, but we didn't want to be castigated for undoing someone's work.
Incidentally, we were all pleased with the routes at Upper White Crag, most of which are newly described in the 2013 Langdale guide. Has anyone got any other recommendations from amongst the other new crags/routes?
No. 2 Potentially more serious is the in situ ab tat at Upper White Crag which is round a huge jammed flake. This appears to be held - just - in place (the flake, not the tat) by a small spike on the right. The flake was observed to move slightly under a climber's weight. There is a safer alternative (apart from walking down, which is rather awkward or at least time-consuming especially in the bracken season). There is a large block a bit further up the hillside which will take a very large sling and a single 50m rope will just reach from there. It might be a good idea to remove the tat, but we didn't want to be castigated for undoing someone's work.
Incidentally, we were all pleased with the routes at Upper White Crag, most of which are newly described in the 2013 Langdale guide. Has anyone got any other recommendations from amongst the other new crags/routes?
In reply to Rog Wilko:
Fallen foul of the same ab at gimmer! had to solo up for it.
Good bit of info, thanks Rog!
Fallen foul of the same ab at gimmer! had to solo up for it.
Good bit of info, thanks Rog!
In reply to Rog Wilko:
Hi Roger. Had heard about the Upper White Crag routes - must get there soon. Tried the Lower crag some time ago and hadn't bothered returning.
Thanks for the ab recommendations - must have just been lucky on many occasions using the Gimmer chain.
Of the crop of climbs appearing in the new guide the ones near Main Wall at Gimmer are worthwhile - we did Purple Edge and Three Tiers Climb and enjoyed them on the usual excellent Gimmer rock; a friend says Out of The Blue is better than either. Over on the alphabet part we did Crimson Pirate - need blinkers but a nice first pitch and a rambling second.
On Raven we went to look at the Upper Amphitheatre, did one climb - Heavenly Host - crossed off it's stars in my guide book and left! Found it unremarkable. Then went on to RE-discover Mendes. I hadn't done it since 1967 but found it to be a really good pitch. The fact that it gets the same 2 stars as Heavenly Host is surprising to say the least.
Have you tried Kettle Crag - I understand a dynamic team made a good job of developing it in the noughties!!! (here there should be one of those little yellow faces, winking, but I don't know how to do them!
Hi Roger. Had heard about the Upper White Crag routes - must get there soon. Tried the Lower crag some time ago and hadn't bothered returning.
Thanks for the ab recommendations - must have just been lucky on many occasions using the Gimmer chain.
Of the crop of climbs appearing in the new guide the ones near Main Wall at Gimmer are worthwhile - we did Purple Edge and Three Tiers Climb and enjoyed them on the usual excellent Gimmer rock; a friend says Out of The Blue is better than either. Over on the alphabet part we did Crimson Pirate - need blinkers but a nice first pitch and a rambling second.
On Raven we went to look at the Upper Amphitheatre, did one climb - Heavenly Host - crossed off it's stars in my guide book and left! Found it unremarkable. Then went on to RE-discover Mendes. I hadn't done it since 1967 but found it to be a really good pitch. The fact that it gets the same 2 stars as Heavenly Host is surprising to say the least.
Have you tried Kettle Crag - I understand a dynamic team made a good job of developing it in the noughties!!! (here there should be one of those little yellow faces, winking, but I don't know how to do them!
In reply to Rog Wilko:
I really enjoyed the one route I did on Upper White Crag as well. I just remember it being a walk off though ? I can't think of any good reason to abseil off.
I really enjoyed the one route I did on Upper White Crag as well. I just remember it being a walk off though ? I can't think of any good reason to abseil off.
In reply to Martin Bennett:
If you do Langdale Ferret, I thought there was a loose flake. It is at the left end of a foot hold and it creaked and seemed cracked along it`s base to me. As I had no gear in at this point and your a little bit up you may wish to be wary.
If you do Langdale Ferret, I thought there was a loose flake. It is at the left end of a foot hold and it creaked and seemed cracked along it`s base to me. As I had no gear in at this point and your a little bit up you may wish to be wary.
In reply to Rog Wilko:
So as well as being directly above a classic route, the Gimmer chain is also sited to create potential issues when pulling the ropes. I'm glad I always take the extra few minutes to walk off.
Someone needs to go up there with a set of heavy duty bolt cutters.
So as well as being directly above a classic route, the Gimmer chain is also sited to create potential issues when pulling the ropes. I'm glad I always take the extra few minutes to walk off.
Someone needs to go up there with a set of heavy duty bolt cutters.
In reply to GrahamD:
I forget to make it clear in the OP that what was the Upper Crag is now part of the Lower Crag and the Upper Crag is now the bit with Langdale Ferrets on it. I think the main reason we abbed was the dense bracken which was covering the hillside.
I forget to make it clear in the OP that what was the Upper Crag is now part of the Lower Crag and the Upper Crag is now the bit with Langdale Ferrets on it. I think the main reason we abbed was the dense bracken which was covering the hillside.
In reply to Simon Caldwell:
Well, I know what you mean and I have often done as you do and indeed prefer the option. Setting up abs is never as quick as you think it will be. One factor on Saturday was that my partner has been suffering with a leg condition/injury which makes downhill steep walking very difficult.
Well, I know what you mean and I have often done as you do and indeed prefer the option. Setting up abs is never as quick as you think it will be. One factor on Saturday was that my partner has been suffering with a leg condition/injury which makes downhill steep walking very difficult.
In reply to Simon Caldwell:
I hope no one does its a great abseil, just needs a bit of thought when pulling the ropes, better than a load of tat..
> Someone needs to go up there with a set of heavy duty bolt cutters.
I hope no one does its a great abseil, just needs a bit of thought when pulling the ropes, better than a load of tat..
In reply to Rog Wilko:
Hi Rog -I had a bimble about a month ago up into the axe factory on Pike o Stickle with the guidebook. There is a subsidiary crag called something like Stone age crag. It did not appear in the previous edition of the Langdale guide and I wondered if anyone has climbed on it recently. There is a very nice looking VS crack line running straight up the middle. The crag does not appear in the UKC logbook database. Nice,clean rock with nothing harder than VS -about an hours walk up the valley.
Hi Rog -I had a bimble about a month ago up into the axe factory on Pike o Stickle with the guidebook. There is a subsidiary crag called something like Stone age crag. It did not appear in the previous edition of the Langdale guide and I wondered if anyone has climbed on it recently. There is a very nice looking VS crack line running straight up the middle. The crag does not appear in the UKC logbook database. Nice,clean rock with nothing harder than VS -about an hours walk up the valley.
In reply to Simon Caldwell:
The first swallow of the spring is late this year. Usually the gimmer rap rant occurs in april, tough flight from Africa?
It will soon be September and time for the annual mixed climbing scrap.
The first swallow of the spring is late this year. Usually the gimmer rap rant occurs in april, tough flight from Africa?
It will soon be September and time for the annual mixed climbing scrap.
In reply to 3leggeddog:
funny you should say that, got hauled up 'sword of damacles' (three star E1) yesterday and was unimpressed by the scratching, having done a bit of mixed over the years and really enjoyed it i'm beginning to think we don't have enough rock
is their a prize for the most out of season comment?
funny you should say that, got hauled up 'sword of damacles' (three star E1) yesterday and was unimpressed by the scratching, having done a bit of mixed over the years and really enjoyed it i'm beginning to think we don't have enough rock
is their a prize for the most out of season comment?
In reply to Martin Bennett:
Hi Martin, I'd been looking at UpperAmphitheatre but may not bother. I could be up for a day out early next week if weather obliges.
Hi Martin, I'd been looking at UpperAmphitheatre but may not bother. I could be up for a day out early next week if weather obliges.
In reply to scott quinn:
Only climbed on Gimmer once. Started at the bottom and walked off. Didn't see an abseil chain.
> (In reply to Simon Caldwell)
>
> [...]
>
> I hope no one does its a great abseil, just needs a bit of thought when pulling the ropes, better than a load of tat..
>
> [...]
>
> I hope no one does its a great abseil, just needs a bit of thought when pulling the ropes, better than a load of tat..
Only climbed on Gimmer once. Started at the bottom and walked off. Didn't see an abseil chain.
In reply to DubyaJamesDubya:
It's about 25 years since I last climbed there, so hazy memory, and looking at guidebook now - but wasn't the descent down the south-east gully perfectly OK? Junipal Gully round to the left of Gimmer Crack etc, however, I remember being v steep and quite serious. But then again, couldn't you just use the North-West gully further left again, a long way round, but quite fast and easy?
It's about 25 years since I last climbed there, so hazy memory, and looking at guidebook now - but wasn't the descent down the south-east gully perfectly OK? Junipal Gully round to the left of Gimmer Crack etc, however, I remember being v steep and quite serious. But then again, couldn't you just use the North-West gully further left again, a long way round, but quite fast and easy?
In reply to Gordon Stainforth:
I think the reason for the popularity of abbing is that the descents do take most people quite a long time, or they perceive that they do in comparison to abbing. Certainly, if your next objective is a route starting from Ash Tree Ledge, abbing will be much quicker (unless of course you get your rope stuck ). On top of that, as you point out, Junipall gully is more or less impassable and anyway probably should be left as a site of botanical interest so you need to go quite a lot higher if you want to get back to the NW flank of the crag. SE Gully leaves you doing a detour round the foot of the crag if you need to get back to the NW side. The problem really is that Gimmer was not laid out for the convenience of climbers and it is the norm for even Gimmer habituees to find themselves separated from their sandwiches and drink bottles after completing a route. But it is unarguable that both abseil lines (the other being down the line of Asterisk from Ash Tree Ledge) create inconvenience to people climbing popular routes. I know I'll get lynched for suggesting it, but I'd prefer to see, if possible, abseil stations set up where there is little or no inconvenience to those climbing routes and if necessary bolts being placed to make this possible. This would have the bonus of reducing the erosion of the descent routes. I supported the placing of a bolted abseil station on Sergeant crag slabs for that same reason. I hasten to add that I would not like to see a bolt on such a crag as Gimmer for any other purpose.
I think the reason for the popularity of abbing is that the descents do take most people quite a long time, or they perceive that they do in comparison to abbing. Certainly, if your next objective is a route starting from Ash Tree Ledge, abbing will be much quicker (unless of course you get your rope stuck ). On top of that, as you point out, Junipall gully is more or less impassable and anyway probably should be left as a site of botanical interest so you need to go quite a lot higher if you want to get back to the NW flank of the crag. SE Gully leaves you doing a detour round the foot of the crag if you need to get back to the NW side. The problem really is that Gimmer was not laid out for the convenience of climbers and it is the norm for even Gimmer habituees to find themselves separated from their sandwiches and drink bottles after completing a route. But it is unarguable that both abseil lines (the other being down the line of Asterisk from Ash Tree Ledge) create inconvenience to people climbing popular routes. I know I'll get lynched for suggesting it, but I'd prefer to see, if possible, abseil stations set up where there is little or no inconvenience to those climbing routes and if necessary bolts being placed to make this possible. This would have the bonus of reducing the erosion of the descent routes. I supported the placing of a bolted abseil station on Sergeant crag slabs for that same reason. I hasten to add that I would not like to see a bolt on such a crag as Gimmer for any other purpose.
In reply to Simon Caldwell:
It's a useful abseil, used it many times, no jammed ropes... pull them straight down, used it half a dozen times this year alone.
It's a useful abseil, used it many times, no jammed ropes... pull them straight down, used it half a dozen times this year alone.
Post edited at 13:53
In reply to John Kelly:
Get down the gymn and keep off the pies...maybe you'll be able to climb it in winter to...
Get down the gymn and keep off the pies...maybe you'll be able to climb it in winter to...
In reply to Martin Bennett:
I went to kettle crag recently, worth a visit but just keep in mind the devaluation of the star system when judging the routes.
I went to kettle crag recently, worth a visit but just keep in mind the devaluation of the star system when judging the routes.
In reply to John Kelly:
You can have the pies with more training...at least that's wot I tell myself
You can have the pies with more training...at least that's wot I tell myself
In reply to Gael Force:
Pies with a degree?
> You can have the pies with more training...at least that's wot I tell myself
Pies with a degree?
In reply to Rog Wilko:
I agree with you on every point. And it surely doesn't need a chain or a bolt to abseil down to Ash Tree Ledge?
> I think the reason for the popularity of abbing is that the descents do take most people quite a long time, or they perceive that they do in comparison to abbing. Certainly, if your next objective is a route starting from Ash Tree Ledge, abbing will be much quicker (unless of course you get your rope stuck ). On top of that, as you point out, Junipall gully is more or less impassable and anyway probably should be left as a site of botanical interest so you need to go quite a lot higher if you want to get back to the NW flank of the crag. SE Gully leaves you doing a detour round the foot of the crag if you need to get back to the NW side. The problem really is that Gimmer was not laid out for the convenience of climbers and it is the norm for even Gimmer habituees to find themselves separated from their sandwiches and drink bottles after completing a route. But it is unarguable that both abseil lines (the other being down the line of Asterisk from Ash Tree Ledge) create inconvenience to people climbing popular routes. I know I'll get lynched for suggesting it, but I'd prefer to see, if possible, abseil stations set up where there is little or no inconvenience to those climbing routes and if necessary bolts being placed to make this possible. This would have the bonus of reducing the erosion of the descent routes. I supported the placing of a bolted abseil station on Sergeant crag slabs for that same reason. I hasten to add that I would not like to see a bolt on such a crag as Gimmer for any other purpose.
I agree with you on every point. And it surely doesn't need a chain or a bolt to abseil down to Ash Tree Ledge?
In reply to Gordon Stainforth:
>I agree with you on every point. And it surely doesn't need a chain or a bolt to abseil down to Ash Tree Ledge?
I didn't see any other abseil options how ever I wasn't really looking, any other options would result in tat of questionable quality being left at the top of one of Lansdale's premier crags.
The chain Rog is talking about is equipped with a ring via maillons & is placed as a thread and could quite easily be replaced in many years time.
In my opinion its a shining example of an abseil, ok its down a route but its a route which doesn't seem to get much traffic and if anyone threw ropes down on a party, their just prats anyway!
>I agree with you on every point. And it surely doesn't need a chain or a bolt to abseil down to Ash Tree Ledge?
I didn't see any other abseil options how ever I wasn't really looking, any other options would result in tat of questionable quality being left at the top of one of Lansdale's premier crags.
The chain Rog is talking about is equipped with a ring via maillons & is placed as a thread and could quite easily be replaced in many years time.
In my opinion its a shining example of an abseil, ok its down a route but its a route which doesn't seem to get much traffic and if anyone threw ropes down on a party, their just prats anyway!
In reply to scott quinn:
If you abseil down to Ash tree ledge after doing another route, you then collect your gear when you get to the top and then climb down the gully.
If you abseil down to Ash tree ledge after doing another route, you then collect your gear when you get to the top and then climb down the gully.
In reply to scott quinn:
There could be a reason it doesn't get traffic
Actually its not a bad route.
There could be a reason it doesn't get traffic
Actually its not a bad route.
In reply to scott quinn:
'A' route is a 3 star severe. When I did the route we had an ab rope thrown down on top of us. Perhaps that's one reason it's less popular than most of the other classics there?
> its a route which doesn't seem to get much traffic
'A' route is a 3 star severe. When I did the route we had an ab rope thrown down on top of us. Perhaps that's one reason it's less popular than most of the other classics there?
In reply to tmawer:
I feel your use of the word devaluation to be rather value-laden in itself. One could argue that the F&R has over recent years consistently used a star system which differs (but isn't inferior to) that used by other guidebooks. I think the star ratings given at Kettle Crag largely conform to those given to other routes elsewhere in the Lakes, but then I may be considered biased. Glad you thought the routes worth the walk in, though.
> I went to kettle crag recently, worth a visit but just keep in mind the devaluation of the star system when judging the routes.
I feel your use of the word devaluation to be rather value-laden in itself. One could argue that the F&R has over recent years consistently used a star system which differs (but isn't inferior to) that used by other guidebooks. I think the star ratings given at Kettle Crag largely conform to those given to other routes elsewhere in the Lakes, but then I may be considered biased. Glad you thought the routes worth the walk in, though.
In reply to Simon Caldwell:
Seems I'm wrong about he amount of ascents it does seem popular just as a 3 star sever should be....I thought it was a different route, my bad.
I cant believe people just chuck their ropes down with out looking that's just ridiculous This isn't a problem with the ab chain though its more of the inconsiderate users.
We should get some one strong enough to move the boulder I nominate Dave Birkett that man is nails!
Seems I'm wrong about he amount of ascents it does seem popular just as a 3 star sever should be....I thought it was a different route, my bad.
I cant believe people just chuck their ropes down with out looking that's just ridiculous This isn't a problem with the ab chain though its more of the inconsiderate users.
We should get some one strong enough to move the boulder I nominate Dave Birkett that man is nails!
In reply to Rog Wilko:
What I was trying to say is that the 3 star routes on Kettle Crag are not, I think, in the same league as a 3 star route established many years ago on other crags. Having said this I think they are good, well worth the effort and I broadly agree with idea behind the change in the star system and it's goal of getting people to climb a greater number of worthwhile routes rather than just the old 3 star ones.
What I was trying to say is that the 3 star routes on Kettle Crag are not, I think, in the same league as a 3 star route established many years ago on other crags. Having said this I think they are good, well worth the effort and I broadly agree with idea behind the change in the star system and it's goal of getting people to climb a greater number of worthwhile routes rather than just the old 3 star ones.
In reply to Gordon Stainforth:
It was a few years ago but basically we arrived at the foot of the buttress, climbed Gimmer Crack then walked back down to our packs on the RH side (looking in) and found it very reasonable. We didn't spot an abseil point but then we weren't looking.
> (In reply to DubyaJamesDubya)
>
> It's about 25 years since I last climbed there, so hazy memory, and looking at guidebook now - but wasn't the descent down the south-east gully perfectly OK? Junipal Gully round to the left of Gimmer Crack etc, however, I remember being v steep and quite serious. But then again, couldn't you just use the North-West gully further left again, a long way round, but quite fast and easy?
>
> It's about 25 years since I last climbed there, so hazy memory, and looking at guidebook now - but wasn't the descent down the south-east gully perfectly OK? Junipal Gully round to the left of Gimmer Crack etc, however, I remember being v steep and quite serious. But then again, couldn't you just use the North-West gully further left again, a long way round, but quite fast and easy?
It was a few years ago but basically we arrived at the foot of the buttress, climbed Gimmer Crack then walked back down to our packs on the RH side (looking in) and found it very reasonable. We didn't spot an abseil point but then we weren't looking.
In reply to DubyaJamesDubya:
Strange, isn't it, that climbers managed just fine for c.120 years without an abseil chain? Were they really less lazy (i.e happier to climb down descent gullies) and/or more competent all round?
I don't remember seeing any abseil tat on the top of Gimmer either - but of course memory can be v unreliable.
Strange, isn't it, that climbers managed just fine for c.120 years without an abseil chain? Were they really less lazy (i.e happier to climb down descent gullies) and/or more competent all round?
I don't remember seeing any abseil tat on the top of Gimmer either - but of course memory can be v unreliable.
In reply to Gordon Stainforth:
One other aspect relates to the large number of more chronologically challenged climbers (such as myself) for whom the abseil saves quite a lot of extra effort. My dear wife and I found it hard enough getting to the crag while still retaining enough energy to climb the routes, and were grateful for the opportunity to descend without much extra expenditure of effort, especially as she is suffering from an injury which can make downhill steep walking/scrambling very difficult. It's the grey vote again!
One other aspect relates to the large number of more chronologically challenged climbers (such as myself) for whom the abseil saves quite a lot of extra effort. My dear wife and I found it hard enough getting to the crag while still retaining enough energy to climb the routes, and were grateful for the opportunity to descend without much extra expenditure of effort, especially as she is suffering from an injury which can make downhill steep walking/scrambling very difficult. It's the grey vote again!
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