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Climbing fiction: what is there and why so little??

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 MikeTS 27 Jun 2014
A friend of mine has written a draft climbing novel and is asking me to review it. Which lead to the title of the thread. Any ideas and suggestions? What would you look for in a serious novel about climbing?
 Trangia 27 Jun 2014
In reply to MikeTS:

I suspect it's because there isn't much scope for intrigue when writing about a climb. It's a bit like writing a novel about driving your car to work.....

Probably more scope for writing a novel about the lives of people who also happen to be climbers, but you would have to cover other aspects of their lives. On the face of it climbing is boring for the wider audience of non climbers.
needvert 27 Jun 2014
In reply to MikeTS:

Just the two cents of one potential customer:

Perhaps I'm being small minded, but will all the non-fictional epic tales of climbing and adventure available, there's very little attraction to a fictional story in that setting.

None the less a fictional climbing novel could be quite good, I just think selling it as such would be difficult, and that one might have much more success labelling it something else, like a drama or thriller.

OP MikeTS 27 Jun 2014
In reply to needvert:

Thanks. If it has a category, it's a philosophical novel. Like Umberto Eco.
OP MikeTS 27 Jun 2014
In reply to Trangia:

Well there is something about climbing with partners in extreme situations that seems to open you up to discussing things you wouldn't in other situations. Some of my best discussions have been when dangling your feet over the belay ledge and eating lunch.
 OMR 27 Jun 2014
In reply to MikeTS:
There's actually quite a bit if fiction available in climbing and mountaineering. One Step in the Clouds is an excellent anthology - http://www.amazon.co.uk/One-Step-Clouds-Omnibus-Mountaineering/dp/087156638... - but there are also short story collections by Per Lars Sandberg, Dermot Somers, Anne Sauvy; and novels by Roger Hubank, Dougal Haston and others if you look about. Not all of it is brilliant, like in any field, but there's a fair bit of good stuff out there if you look.
Oh, and just remembered Andrew Grieg - Electric Brae; and M John Harrison - Climbers.
Post edited at 09:31
 Ava Adore 27 Jun 2014
In reply to MikeTS:

I recently read a crime novel called As the Crow Flies by Damien Boyd. The victim was a climber and Boyd describes his last climb in detail at the start of the book. He clearly knew what he was talking about which was good. However, victim turned out to be a bad guy, stealing rare eggs and dealing drugs.
 Ramblin dave 27 Jun 2014
In reply to OMR:

Is the M John Harrison book good? I keep meaning to check his stuff out generally...

Far Far the Mountain Peak by John Masters is fairly climbing-heavy as well.

I guess it's a difficult thing to pull off, though, because
a) it's hard to get the balance between assuming too little technical knowledge and boring any readers who are already climbers and explaining too much and confusing ones who aren't and
b) lots of the real life mountaineering history is already more dramatic and heroic than you could get away with making up.

And I suppose c) experienced climbers are relatively rare, really good writers are rarer, so really good writers who are experienced climbers are going to be a pretty tiny group...
OP MikeTS 27 Jun 2014
In reply to Ava Adore:

> victim turned out to be a bad guy, stealing rare eggs and dealing drugs.

I read that. Typical climber!
OP MikeTS 27 Jun 2014
In reply to OMR:

Read the Sauvy and Haston. OK, but not special I thought (to generalise wildly!)

Since this is a full length novel I'm reviewing, I am not so interested in the short stories, which seem to make up most of the genre.
 John2 27 Jun 2014
In reply to MikeTS:

There's also Take it to the Limit by Lucy Rees and Al Harris, of course.
In reply to MikeTS:

> What would you look for in a serious novel about climbing?

Just a good read really. I wonder if Melville asked around "what would you look for in a serious novel about a whale?".

Yes, I know it's not about the whale!

 Only a hill 27 Jun 2014
In reply to Trangia:

> I suspect it's because there isn't much scope for intrigue when writing about a climb. It's a bit like writing a novel about driving your car to work.....

The trick to it, of course, is to make it less about the actual climbing and more about the bigger picture.

I write novels in the genre and have found it an inexhaustible source of ideas, although I admit my books are set in the 19th century and are more focused on mountaineering than climbing. Fortunately people seem to like them!

My books:
"The Only Genuine Jones"
"The Atholl Expedition"
"Crowley's Rival" (short story)

Also, while not actually fiction, Fiva by Gordon Stainforth is an excellent book that reads very much like a novel.
 Only a hill 27 Jun 2014
In reply to MikeTS:

> A friend of mine has written a draft climbing novel and is asking me to review it. Which lead to the title of the thread. Any ideas and suggestions? What would you look for in a serious novel about climbing?

Feel free to put him or her in touch with me - I have a lot of experience in critiquing draft manuscripts, and am very familiar with the genre as well.
 OMR 27 Jun 2014
In reply to Ramblin dave:

It's a long time since I read the M John Harrison book but, to be honest, my main recollection is of it being very depressing. Not a lot of laughs in there.
 OMR 27 Jun 2014
In reply to MikeTS:

Sauvy and Haston are probably two of the weaker entrants in the field. Track down the anthology, which has a collection of novels as well as the short stories. Really is some excellent stuff there.
 Only a hill 27 Jun 2014
In reply to MikeTS:

A worthy indie effort is The Last Mountain by Malcolm Havard.
 Mark Bull 27 Jun 2014
In reply to OMR:

> It's a long time since I read the M John Harrison book but, to be honest, my main recollection is of it being very depressing. Not a lot of laughs in there.

Yes, well written, but pretty bleak.

There's a survey of pre-1980 mountaineering fiction published in the Alpine Journal here: http://www.alpinejournal.org.uk/Contents/Contents_1980_files/AJ%201980%2012...
 goose299 27 Jun 2014
In reply to MikeTS:

There was a free amazon kindle ebook being advertised on ukc a while back that was climbing related fiction.
As the crow flies by Damien Boyd

Pretty good book and still free
 lowersharpnose 27 Jun 2014
In reply to MikeTS:

The Boxing Four Minute Miler Who Conquered Action Direct
 The New NickB 27 Jun 2014
In reply to lowersharpnose:

> The Boxing Four Minute Miler Who Conquered Action Direct

Naughty!
 DannyC 27 Jun 2014
In reply to MikeTS:

I'd highly recommend Evening Light by Roger Hubank. It's not a typical climbing book at all - focusing on relationships rather than daring do. And all the better for it.
 Hephaestus 27 Jun 2014
In reply to MikeTS:
> Thanks. If it has a category, it's a philosophical novel. Like Umberto Eco.

In which case there's little point in polling for views here. We can't even handle the basics of a bolting debate without descending into anarchy here. Try Milan Kundera.

I enjoyed The Only Genuine Jones in a holiday novel kind of way. Good work Mister Hill.
Post edited at 11:58
 Dave Ferguson 27 Jun 2014
In reply to MikeTS:

there's quite a lot of old murder mystery type books about climbing, Showell Styles under the name "Glyn Carr" wrote 15 listed here: http://www.classiccrimefiction.com/glyn-carr.htm

Many are set in north wales, I quite enjoyed them, not always for the plots which were quite predictable, but for the description of climbing in the 50's. Many are rare in hardback but have been recently reprinted in paperback.

Hamish McInnes and Gwen Moffat also wrote crime thrillers based around climbing.
 Hephaestus 27 Jun 2014
In reply to MikeTS:

Re: Why is there so little?

Probably because writing revolves around empathy/understanding with the characters and very few people can respond experientially to climbing. If climbing is a metaphor for some aspect of a character's personality, then only climbers will really be able to respond to that metaphor meaningfully in anything but broad, or at best selective, terms.

OP MikeTS 27 Jun 2014
In reply to Dave Ferguson:

> there's quite a lot of old murder mystery type books about climbing, Showell Styles under the name "Glyn Carr" wrote 15 listed here: http://www.classiccrimefiction.com/glyn-carr.htm


> Gwen Moffat also wrote crime thrillers based around climbing.

I read them too, I had forgotten, that is 50 years ago, right?
OP MikeTS 27 Jun 2014
In reply to Hephaestus:

> Re: Why is there so little?

> Probably because writing revolves around empathy/understanding with the characters and very few people can respond experientially to climbing. If climbing is a metaphor for some aspect of a character's personality, then only climbers will really be able to respond to that metaphor meaningfully in anything but broad, or at best selective, terms.

I think the opposite. Most people I have climbed with seem to have found that the experience opened them up.
 Hephaestus 27 Jun 2014
In reply to MikeTS:

Sorry, not sure what you mean. I was offering a reason for climbing fiction not being a popular genre with writers/readers. Sure climbing is a rewarding experience and for some people it becomes an aspect of their personal philosophy, but for people who haven't climbed the importance will always be opaque.

Climbing has not become an important meme in fiction because so few people can relate to it directly, as opposed to sex, intrigue and the like.
 Only a hill 27 Jun 2014
In reply to Hephaestus:

I might be able to offer some input here. My readers aren't generally climbers, although a lot of them are 'outdoorsy' in a more general sense. Most of them are historical fiction fans. Although my website says 'mountain fiction,' my books are mainly marketed as historical fiction.

I think if I tried to market them as 'climbing fiction' then fewer people would read them!
 Only a hill 27 Jun 2014
In reply to Hephaestus:

> I enjoyed The Only Genuine Jones in a holiday novel kind of way. Good work Mister Hill.

Thank you!
 Trangia 27 Jun 2014
In reply to MikeTS:


Some real life climbing books are so incredible that they dwarf even fiction:-

Touching the Void
The Last Blue Mountain
Fiva
No Picnic on Mt Kenya
 Mick Ward 27 Jun 2014
In reply to MikeTS:

> I read them too, I had forgotten, that is 50 years ago, right?

Wrong.

Mick
 full stottie 27 Jun 2014
In reply to MikeTS:

There used to be an annual International Festival of Mountaineering Literature at Bretton Hall, and Terry Gifford and Rosie Smith published an account of its first five years ("Orogenic Zones") (That's not what you think it says on a quick first scan of the spelling)

Although both book and Festival were an eclectic mix of non-fiction, perspectives, fiction and poetry, by some big names, it did include a fair bit of fiction.

The article that came to mind from that collection when you posted this was "Climbing Fiction - The State of the Art" by Audrey Salkeld and Rosie Smith, where they addressed the very question you pose. Here's a couple of extracts to give a flavour of their position:

"There is widespread subscription to the idea that 'most climbing fiction has failed....."
"The attitude we find hardest to swallow....is that climbing is somehow too SACRED to fictionalise.."

"...climbing fiction is frequently given short shrift by climbing reviewers.."

They proceed to give examples from a wide range of climbing-related fiction and offer a very positive view of the opportunities that climbing contexts give the fiction author. If you, or your friend, can get hold of a copy, probably only a used copy now, you might find something useful to help pitch things well. (ISBN 0 9524693 0 8 Published 1994, distributed by Cordee)

Its still a hard sell, especially to climbing readerships, but not half as hard a sell as climbing humour....don't take my word for it, just ask my therapist....
 Duncan Bourne 27 Jun 2014
In reply to MikeTS:

Harrison's "Climbers" is still the best pure fiction climbing related book I have read, as I recall it seemed to epitomise a particular era of the Sheffield scene

another that got high praise, but which I feel is a bit too obvious, is Simon Mawer's "The Fall" about two climbing partners

For a real off-the-wall novel there is Robert Silverberg's Sci-fi climbing novel "The Kingdoms of the Wall" climbing as religion with mutants.

Lastly "November" by Simon Norris (well the artwork was) is a slim "Graphic novel/comic" that is a bit of a classic and also a one off
crisp 27 Jun 2014
In reply to MikeTS:
The Bumper Book of Climbing Fun

http://www.ukclimbing.com/news/item.php?id=67769
Post edited at 17:36
altirando 27 Jun 2014
In reply to MikeTS:

I dredged up The White Tower out of a distant memory - a supposed unclimbed peak in the alps in the thirties. Can't remember the author. One Green Bottle is surely the best known novel, written with real knowledge.Unfortunately the most fun from novels involving climbing is usually ridiculing the mistakes.
 Robert Durran 27 Jun 2014
In reply to Trangia:

> Some real life climbing books are so incredible that they dwarf even fiction:-

I wonder whether there are any non-fiction climbing books which are actually largely fiction. I do have my suspicions.
OP MikeTS 28 Jun 2014
In reply to Robert Durran:

Are there publishers that seriously consider climbing fiction?
 Adam Long 29 Jun 2014
In reply to Duncan Bourne:

> Harrison's "Climbers" is still the best pure fiction climbing related book I have read, as I recall it seemed to epitomise a particular era of the Sheffield scene

It doesn't really touch on the Sheffield scene but it does capture a great sense of being youngish, putting climbing at the centre of your life and drifting around the fringes of life in Northern towns.

Good as 'Climbers' is, I thought Grieg's Electric Brae was in a class of its own as far as climbing fiction goes. Very good indeed.
 Mick Ward 29 Jun 2014
In reply to Adam Long:

Totally agree. I thought Electric Brae was a tour de force. Just when you think you can't take any more, the knife gets twisted... again and again and again.

When the young lads meet at the beginning, at the bottom of the Etive Slabs, they have no earthly idea what they're getting into.

Climbing relationships - cherchez la femme!

Mick
 mbh 29 Jun 2014
In reply to ablackett:

Everyone knows that. Send down more champagne! It's very like Diary of a Nobody.
 Chris H 29 Jun 2014
In reply to MikeTS:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Cave-Ali-Cooper-ebook/dp/B004VSYRUG/ref=tag_stc_cus...

Caving rather than climbing but quite good - considering its written by a woman from a mans perspective which I would have thought is quite difficult.
 Duncan Bourne 29 Jun 2014
In reply to ablackett:

Ah I had forgotten Rum Doodle.
 Robert Durran 30 Jun 2014
In reply to ablackett:
> Rum Doodle is brilliant.

Childish, inane, tedious nonsense. A sort of mountaineering Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy.
Post edited at 01:51
 Robert Durran 30 Jun 2014
In reply to MikeTS:

I thought Joe Simpson's The Sound of Gravity was pretty good.
 OMR 30 Jun 2014
In reply to ablackett:

And of course GF Dutton's 'Doctor' stories. True comedy classics and with an intimate knowledge of climbing and climbers. Loved the limpets on Ben Nevis.
 Co1in H 23 Jul 2014
In reply to MikeTS: There is more about than you may think but a lot of poor stuff and much that have their plot lines in actual events that have already happened.
Climbers, as mentioned many times, is great but there is little climbing in it.
It has been suggested that Touching the Void is more fiction than fact, but what do I know.
Try "The Wall" by Jeff Long. Under £2 posted in paperback on ABE.
Just when you thought you had it sussed it bites you back. It's a great read. Then go on to read his other stuff, Ascent and also Descent.

 Jim Walton 24 Jul 2014
In reply to Co1in H:

Now didn't Jeff Long have a hand in writing the screenplay for the film cliffhanger or was that John Long?

Joe Simpson's Sound of Gravity is surprisingly good for a climbing novel. A good basic plot but with more detail about the characters and their emotions after the accident and a general feeling of a loss of direction in the main characters life. I liked it.

I think that Mr Simpson then had a falling out with his long time publisher (Jonathon Cape) and is now not intending to produce anymore books in print and only produce ebooks. But I may be way off the mark with that.
 TonyG 25 Jul 2014
In reply to MikeTS:

Try reading "Solo Faces" by James Salter... Really good

http://www.amazon.com/Solo-Faces-Novel-James-Salter/dp/0865473218
In reply to MikeTS:

I have heard several guidebooks described as 'Great works of fiction' does that count?
In reply to Ava Adore:
> (In reply to MikeTS)
>
> I recently read a crime novel called As the Crow Flies by Damien Boyd. The victim was a climber and Boyd describes his last climb in detail at the start of the book. He clearly knew what he was talking about which was good. However, victim turned out to be a bad guy, stealing rare eggs and dealing drugs.

Thanks for the spoilers! It's on my "to read" list!!
In reply to MikeTS:

I wrote, and had published, a series of short stories on the paragliding theme. I wonder if I coudl knock out some climbing ones. May have a punt.
 Simon4 27 Jul 2014
In reply to keith-ratcliffe:

> I have heard several guidebooks described as 'Great works of fiction' does that count?

Ah, so someone else has seen the Alpine Club offerings. Especially to certain areas.
 Co1in H 27 Jul 2014
In reply to Jim Walton:
Just for the record Jim, it was John "Largo" Long.

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