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Will I ever learn to lead climb?

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 3B48 27 Jun 2014
Is it just me, because I seem to be able to try things indoors and outdoors at higher grades as a second or top rope but I get so spooked about leading. I want to lead but my head won't have it. What's going on and how can I combat it?
I've tried leading outdoors and indoors but I'm pathetically slow at gaining confidence.
Tips would be welcome
 Firestarter 27 Jun 2014
In reply to Lobsbelow:

Patient buddy
Start off easy
What spooks you? If it's falling practise lead falls indoors, starting small and gradually build it up.
Don't rush it
Keep trying

I'm sure there will be plenty of advice coming your way!

Good luck.
 kwoods 27 Jun 2014
In reply to Lobsbelow:

This was a 'lightbulb' moment for me.
http://onlineclimbingcoach.blogspot.co.uk/2007/11/fear-of-falling.html

Best of luck
 balmybaldwin 27 Jun 2014
In reply to Lobsbelow:
Are you scared of falling?

Try this... clip drop technique

http://www.ukclimbing.com/articles/page.php?id=1838
Post edited at 20:14
In reply to Lobsbelow:

If you are wandering up to the Peak Grit to climb then look at Offwidth website and create a hit list of easy climbs. You'll gain more in confidence from just placing gear, building belays and having a second come up and stay it was all good, than you will from pushing grades.

I have started both seconding and leading outdoors this year, the latter only at VDiff but learning so much.

Forget grades or what you climb seconding, start low, even a 'scramble' is great as you can practice placing and forget the climbing.

You'll do it, you just need a kick in arse from mates and yourself and you wont look back.
 Mark Eddy 27 Jun 2014
In reply to Lobsbelow:

Don't rush into it. Spend time practising placing gear at the base of a crag, gain confidence in this and confidence with your ability to clip the rope quickly into the quickdraw. Whilst still on the ground (and in a safe place) weight your gear as a way of testing it and gaining confidence in placing good protection.
When you feel this is all going well, try some easy leads, routes you have already seconded are good starters. Mods / diffs so you get plenty rests along the way. Even go for having a belay already set up at the top so you don't need to stress about that for the first few times.

Hope that's helpful.
 BusyLizzie 27 Jun 2014
In reply to Lobsbelow:

Confidence in the gear you have placed seems to be one of the key things; it needs practice, and it is useful to have someone else look at what you are doing and confirm that your placements are good - this made all the difference to me as a timid late starter. Climbing partners who really want to encourage you are also very helpful!
 jayray 27 Jun 2014
In reply to Lobsbelow:

It's not just you, I'm working on my leading too. Try leading a harder climb you have just seconded, it will give you more confidence. Most importantly, enjoy your climbing
 Skyfall 27 Jun 2014
In reply to BusyLizzie:

> Confidence in the gear you have placed

> Climbing partners who really want to encourage you

+1

Also, don't expect indoors grades to translate directly outdoors. Steady progress, pyramid progression, mileage!

Everyone gets scared at some point, it's healthy and normal.



 Neil Williams 27 Jun 2014
In reply to balmybaldwin:

Or don't, because falling practice always made me think "that's every bit as bad as I thought it would be". (I hate the sensation of falling)

Neil
 Bulls Crack 27 Jun 2014
In reply to jayray:

> It's not just you, I'm working on my leading too. Try leading a harder climb you have just seconded, it will give you more confidence.


Does this not just teach you to headpoint?
 tlm 28 Jun 2014
In reply to Lobsbelow:

Just make sure that you lead more - lead every time you go out, no matter how low the grade. Don't feel bad about leading easy climbs as much as you second harder climbs - fairs fair, and if you have seconded something, it is now your turn to pick and lead a route, at whatever grade you want. If you up the volume of leading that you are doing, you will gradually gain confidence.
 mrdigitaljedi 28 Jun 2014
In reply to Lobsbelow:

I started out seconding a VS/HVS leader for 10mnths, i only lead VDiffs-S then when i felt confident enough did i start leading HS/VS, then i started to lead the 1st hard routes i went up as a 2nd, allowing enough time between so that i was leading the routes without remembering the exact moves.

Just take your time and build confidence not only in yourself but also your pro placements
 GrahamUney 28 Jun 2014
In reply to Lobsbelow:

Lots of good advice on here already, but just to reiterate, the best thing to do is not to expect to climb on lead at the same grade as you do indoors or seconding. Lots of folk say 'I climb 6b indoors', then expect to start leading on E4s. Not going to happen my friend. Work your apprenticeship on all those lovely classic Diffs and V.Diffs, learning how to place gear, how to build belays, and how to get yourself out of difficulty, and the harder grades will come, in time. And, yes we all get scared from time to time, even sometimes at the lowest of grades, that's just natural!
OP 3B48 28 Jun 2014
Wow, lots of advice on here, thank you.
I'm not trying to lead at the grades I can second at, I just want to not get spooked about leading per se and that's my problem.
I dunno what spooks me, can I trust my gear placements? - So yes, the advice about testing my placements at the foot of the crag is good, I will give that a try to build confidence.
I worry about being above my placements and falling yes, I've read about practising falling indoors, but outdoors on easier grades I'm not so sure about - the routes are more, erm 'undulating' which I guess make for a less 'clean' fall!
Another thing that's maybe in my head is that - as stated in a post above - outdoors is totally different to indoors and at my level there's routes that involve some thrutching, bashing, chimneys, polish and lichen (sorry if they're not the technical terms!) but nothing indoors prepares you for that!
Multi pitches I worry that I'll 'walk' myself over to the wrong route too.
So much to learn! I do really enjoy it though, just wish my head was calmer while trying my first leads.
Thank you again, I'll take lots of this on board ... in particular I like the advice of leading routes that I feel comfortable with after being seconded on harder routes. I think I worry too much about asking my climbing partners to second me up routes that might be underwhelming for them but confidence builders for me.
OP 3B48 28 Jun 2014
In reply to Firestarter:

Thanks, I've been watching these, really helpful
OP 3B48 28 Jun 2014
In reply to tlm:

I read this and have taken it on board, I think sometimes I don't tell my climbing friends 'I don't want to lead this, can I just lead that moderate over there while I get it sorted'
I started off scrambling so maybe that's the gradual build up I need to lead?
 Mark Haward 28 Jun 2014
In reply to Lobsbelow:

You could head out somewhere sunny such as France, Switzerland or Spain and choose a venue that has a range of routes, bolted without too much space between the bolts. In France these are called 'Ecoles d'Escalades' and they can be a great boost to get you used to leading without worrying too much about gear placements. Once you have built up your confidence leading then move onto trad.
 Oujmik 28 Jun 2014
In reply to Lobsbelow:

Just start really really easy. I'm pretty rubbish technically (my best second is a Severe) but I got happy with the idea of leading by doing loads of friendly routes at Mod as well as using rope techniques on scrambles. Deliberately seek out the easiest crags you can with loads of Mods - just because someone who climbs HVS tells you that Mod-VDiff are all 'easy' doesn't mean you can go straight in to leading on VDiff, Mod climbs get that grade for a reason.
 Curlyhelen 29 Jun 2014
In reply to kwoods:

> This was a 'lightbulb' moment for me.


This was interesting to read.
Perhaps it's best not to get soooo caught up with the grades. I led Hs4c at Froggatt with no problems, loved it....... but then had a nightmare on a diddy VD at Burbage! I've only led 40 or so routes but you seem to learn something new each time.
 Owen W-G 29 Jun 2014
In reply to Lobsbelow:

Go and do a long but v easy route, mod or diff, in n wales. Then do some more. Mileage mileage mileage
In reply to Lobsbelow:

These threads always remind me of the Uruguayan press talking about Suarez.

If you want to climb, then there is only one thing for it and that is simply to man the f*ck up and do it, without making any excuses to yourself.

'My head won't have it' is just an excuse.

jcm
OP 3B48 29 Jun 2014
In reply to johncoxmysteriously:

I was asking for constructive help to get over my perceived 'excuses', acknowledging them as such.
 mrdigitaljedi 29 Jun 2014
In reply to Lobsbelow:
If u wanna get out this monday/tuesday after 2pm for a few hrs up the roaches iam avalible, i live in newcastle-under-lyme so could meet you up there......
Post edited at 15:29
 Kevster 29 Jun 2014
In reply to Lobsbelow:

Jcm is a little blunt there, but for some folk, half the battle is tying on and getting on with it.thers need othr approaches.
Is add that pressure to lead can be counter productive, even if this is intetnal pressure from ones self.
Take it easy, all will be good.
 Andy Long 29 Jun 2014
In reply to Lobsbelow:

>

> I started off scrambling so maybe that's the gradual build up I need to lead?

I was surprised to read that as everything you'd said indicated that you were new to the big outdoors. I know ace indoor climbers who are terrified on steep ground, never mind scrambling. I feel sorry for them. I was "lucky" in that I, along with my mates, moved into climbing from hiking and scrambling and was leading (and soloing) from the word go without ever passing through a top-rope/seconding phase.

Keep up the scrambling and try putting some gear on. Do some lovely big mountain Diffs. Also, don't assume you need a massive rack, a few slings and medium/large nuts will do. Just get your head used to it. It'll come.

















 Rich D 29 Jun 2014
In reply to Lobsbelow:
No.

 Jamie B 29 Jun 2014
In reply to Curlyhelen:

> I led Hs4c at Froggatt with no problems, loved it....... but then had a nightmare on a diddy VD at Burbage!

Slab Recess Direct? Notoriously easy, not a good benchmark at Hard Severe.
 Curlyhelen 29 Jun 2014
In reply to Jamie B:

> Slab Recess Direct? Notoriously easy, not a good benchmark at Hard Severe.

No, Sunset Crack......is that a good or bad benchmark for HS??
 Ffion Blethyn 29 Jun 2014
In reply to Lobsbelow:

> I was asking for constructive help to get over my perceived 'excuses', acknowledging them as such.

Stop chasing grades. Climb climb climb easy routes.
At the risk of inventing a new word don't get Savvitis©®™


(Sorry, MS!)
Removed User 29 Jun 2014
In reply to Lobsbelow:

In these days of instant/overnight success, the need for a traditional apprenticeship tends to be overlooked. For success in "Trad" climbing it pays dividends. Indoor walls were and are great for training the body but for me bore little relevance when faced with a blank wall or a greasy slab

a long way above a suspect runner. For success,as in any endeavour, experience is that font of knowledge which helps us overcome the challenges
facing us. This is especially so in climbing. I started climbing well over fifty years ago,long before the days of mass media,commercialisation,modern protection etc. When a "Friend" was the guy paying out the rope without a belay device. It took me five years to climb, literally up through the grades, eventually achieving the grades of my peers and, learning a great deal along the way which helped me overcome other obstacles later in life.
So my advice is, forget indoor grades (its almost a different sport) and
"Get Out There" join a club and don't be afraid to get your feet wet, remember climbing is about enjoyment, achievement,and the satisfaction that comes with it.

In reply to Lobsbelow:

> I was asking for constructive help to get over my perceived 'excuses', acknowledging them as such.

I didn't see any acknowledgement of that, but anyway such acknowledgement is a promising start. Step 2 is to MTFU. That's all there is to it.

jcm
 Jamie B 29 Jun 2014
In reply to Curlyhelen:

Ah yes, forgot that had been downgraded. Probably HS 4b, so yes, a good benchmark.
 climbwhenready 30 Jun 2014
In reply to Lobsbelow:
> I read this and have taken it on board, I think sometimes I don't tell my climbing friends 'I don't want to lead this, can I just lead that moderate over there while I get it sorted'

I think this is the crux. I'm fairly new to leading, but a couple of more experienced climbers have told me that my gear is good when I asked them, so I trust them (the fact that different people have said the same thing helps a lot).

My wife and I just spent the weekend in the Peak. She doesn't lead, and like me is fairly new to climbing so is happy on the lower graded stuff. I walked up to a Diff on Saturday morning, decided the gear wasn't as frequent as I'd like so we moved on to a Mod and climbed Mods all Saturday. I could lace the routes at the important points with multiple pieces, which helps if you have trouble trusting single pieces yet. The last climb of the day was a Diff. Sunday we started on Diffs and finished on a VD before having to set off home.

Although I've led severe and seconded VS (both with a more experienced climber, not with me being the strongest member of the party) I felt like I was building up my lead head, and we both felt like we had accomplished something worthwhile by doing "hard climbs" for where we are at the moment.

And we had the most fun
Post edited at 09:24
 GrahamD 30 Jun 2014
In reply to Lobsbelow:

I'm not a big advocate of taking falling practice - not to start with.

I would suggest practice recognising and taking rests - this to me is the skill you don't get from seconding or top roping (I don't mean hanging on the rope !). Once you can spot places where you can stand in rest, practice (on a top rope if you like) taking your hands off and deliberately relaxing, deep breaths etc. In that way you can break up lead climbs into sections of one or two moves at a time with the confidence that you can recover.

Also, if you have done a lot of seconding / top roping don't expect your lead grade to be very close to your best grade - that will take practice.
 david100 30 Jun 2014
In reply to Lobsbelow:
I have always had problems with my leading head.
I have full confidence in my gear and my belayer and I always choose climbs that are within my technical grade.
I have identified two issues.
Climbing walls cannot replicate the 3 dimensional aspect of climbing outside and so I find I am weak in some techniques, lay backing,jamming etc
I have a heavy family work schedule and so I don't get enough practice outside to build confidence.
Climbing outside is all about confidence. You must try and build slowly and carefully and if you have a setback then simply start the process again.
Enjoy being outside and stay safe. Don't get stressed about grades.
 Root1 30 Jun 2014
In reply to Lobsbelow:

If you want to learn to lead then join a club and get taken up some routes. People are always ready to advise and guide you on the way.
Many do not join clubs these days but its a great way to gain experience.
 andrewmc 30 Jun 2014
In reply to david100:

> Climbing walls cannot replicate the 3 dimensional aspect of climbing outside and so I find I am weak in some techniques, lay backing,jamming etc

I would argue that they could, they just don't usually (because it is hard/expensive to do!), but otherwise yes :P
OP 3B48 06 Jul 2014
In reply to david100:

Thanks, for different reasons your post resonates. In particular about the setbacks not getting to me. Thank you.
There's been many helpful posts so I can't cite them all, but lots of help.
The next two weekends I'll be trying some leads, easy stuff for folk on here but part of my very late in life apprenticeship!

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