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When Middle Class Is Shorthand For Something Negative..

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 Timmd 03 Jul 2014

What is it which people are referring to as character traits, practices, or points of view, and why is it okay?

Just interested really, people on here can post about something being middle class without quite saying what they mean.

PS, the class of any forum users is not what I'm inquiring about or aiming to have discussed.
Post edited at 21:17
 Oogachooga 03 Jul 2014
In reply to Timmd:

Privileged childhood, good financial backing, job status, mortgage and car finance, well spoken.

Pick at least 3 of those and that is my 'stereotypical' middle class lady or bloke.
 Brass Nipples 03 Jul 2014
In reply to Oogachooga:

Middle 3 are irrelevant to your upbringing. Middle class has Sid all to do with financial backing, finance or good job. Your education does.
In reply to Timmd:

Try reading 'Watching the English' by Kate Fox. New edition due soon I hear. Answers your question fully.
Removed User 04 Jul 2014
In reply to Timmd:

I think it is often used as a synonym for self-interest.
 Jon Stewart 04 Jul 2014
In reply to Orgsm:

> Middle 3 are irrelevant to your upbringing. Middle class has Sid all to do with financial backing, finance or good job. Your education does.

That's manifestly untrue. Upbringing has a huge influence on what job you end up doing and how much you earn.

Here's the intro to a paper that a quick google search brought up:

Evidence abounds that children in lower-income households do less well than their peers on many outcomes, including in health and education. But is money itself important, or do these associations reflect other household differences, such as parental education levels or attitudes toward parenting? This study reviewed the evidence, focusing on research investigating whether money is the cause of these differences in children’s outcomes.

There's an interesting point about whether it's just the parents' money that makes the difference, or whether cultural factors correlated with wealth are as important. The evidence seems to be that it's the money.

 Jon Stewart 04 Jul 2014
In reply to Timmd:
> What is it which people are referring to as character traits, practices, or points of view, and why is it okay?

I think it's often used to describe stuff that is most prevalent or popular among university educated, professional people (and their kids). Things I'd describe as very middle class include: farmers' markets, going to the theatre, foreign black and white films, watching Newsnight with a glass of wine (especially if it was from Waitrose), Radio 4.

Why is it OK? Because the middle class are a privileged group, no harm is done by taking the piss. It's only when you take the piss out of groups at the bottom of the socio-economic ladder that it's harmful IMO, because that piss-taking helps reinforce the idea that such people are inferior and don't deserve a better deal.
Post edited at 12:25
 climbwhenready 04 Jul 2014
In reply to Timmd:

What's pretty weird is that people define middle class either as "what you are" (eg. by job, income, etc.) or "what you have been" ("my parents were miners and I'll never be anything other than working class with my degree and job in finance in the city"). And these two camps of definition will always argue and never agree
 RomTheBear 04 Jul 2014
In reply to Timmd:
> What is it which people are referring to as character traits, practices, or points of view, and why is it okay?

> Just interested really, people on here can post about something being middle class without quite saying what they mean.

In economic terms, people who have a disposable income of about a third of their income, buy consumer goods, and own some form of capital.
Post edited at 13:31
 GrahamD 04 Jul 2014
In reply to Timmd:

Anyone who has the time and resources to piss their time away on climbing forums is middle class in my book.
Jamming Dodger 04 Jul 2014
In reply to Jon Stewart:

What about people from the bottom of the socio-economic ladder who have worked to achieve all the things you mention above in relation to middle class? Are they fair game?
In reply to Jon Stewart:

> Why is it OK? Because the middle class are a privileged group, no harm is done by taking the piss. It's only when you take the piss out of groups at the bottom of the socio-economic ladder that it's harmful IMO, because that piss-taking helps reinforce the idea that such people are inferior and don't deserve a better deal.

To what extent do you think that taking the piss out of having a good education and career would reinforce attitudes amongst some of those "at the bottom of the socio-economic ladder" who already think it's uncool to strive for those things?

 Jon Stewart 04 Jul 2014
In reply to Jamming Dodger:

> What about people from the bottom of the socio-economic ladder who have worked to achieve all the things you mention above in relation to middle class? Are they fair game?

Yes. If you're going to the farmers' market to buy local organic fruit to make your homemade morning smoothie with, then it matters not how you got there.
 Jon Stewart 04 Jul 2014
In reply to Turdus torquatus:

> To what extent do you think that taking the piss out of having a good education and career would reinforce attitudes amongst some of those "at the bottom of the socio-economic ladder" who already think it's uncool to strive for those things?

I don't think that's a problem. The advantages of having a good education and professional job are self-evident, and a few jibes about yummy mummies driving their 4x4 to Waitrose to pick up organic papayas aren't going to affect that.
 Ramblin dave 04 Jul 2014
In reply to Turdus torquatus:

> To what extent do you think that taking the piss out of having a good education and career would reinforce attitudes amongst some of those "at the bottom of the socio-economic ladder" who already think it's uncool to strive for those things?

I think that when people take the piss out of "middle class" stuff, it's more about a particular set of tastes and fashions and a certain lack of self-awareness rather than valuing education and aiming for a well paid job.
 Oogachooga 04 Jul 2014
In reply to Timmd:

Looking at various definitions of middle class, it appears as though my stereotype is way off.

Apparently if you work for a living (regardless of job) and its necessary to continue working for financial reasons, then you are working class.

Middle class is when you have the wealth of an upper class family but your bloodline is not from that class.

Its true meaning has changed over the years by the looks of things.
 Dauphin 04 Jul 2014
In reply to Timmd:
Move to London and have your(everbody) delusions about class shattered. You're not middle class

Plummy cock that thinks the world owes them a living and that you find the minutiae of their experience endlessly fascinating. Could do with a yark in the grid.

D
Post edited at 15:04
 birdie num num 04 Jul 2014
In reply to Timmd:

Its halfway between a scumbag and a toff
 Stone Idle 04 Jul 2014
In reply to birdie num num:

Nice one, youth.
 Chris the Tall 04 Jul 2014
In reply to Timmd:

Since you can't change your upbringing, all you can do is be honest about it, and acknowledge that you had a head start in life compared to many.
 BnB 05 Jul 2014
In reply to Oogachooga:

> Looking at various definitions of middle class, it appears as though my stereotype is way off.

> Apparently if you work for a living (regardless of job) and its necessary to continue working for financial reasons, then you are working class.

> Middle class is when you have the wealth of an upper class family but your bloodline is not from that class.

> Its true meaning has changed over the years by the looks of things.

Didn't Labour tell us we were all middle class now? Or at least make that a spoken aim?
 Brass Nipples 05 Jul 2014
In reply to Jon Stewart:

> That's manifestly untrue. Upbringing has a huge influence on what job you end up doing and how much you earn.

Ah but that's upbringing not class. Class really is about cultural factors not money. There are some very rich people whose background would be considered working class, and there are poor people whose background is middle class.

So we agree that your upbringing affects your education and attitudes which affects the type of job you can get. However, if you get a good upbringing and education, then you have good outcomes regardless of what class others consider you.

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