UKC

Has anyone been home schooled? Did you turn out okay and 'successful' or a massive failure with issues relating to social interaction?

Is anybody thinking about or currently home schooling their young? How's that working out for you? What are the long term plans - GCSEs (or whatever we're on these days), or something else to get to university? Was university even a part of the decision making process or did you just decide to have a go and see what happens?

I'm asking for a survey as part of my college coursework... No i'm not! Thinking about home schooling my daughter, for numerous reasons. Wife and I are both dangerously clever, so's daughter so we're not worried about under-achieving in terms of education. But i do worry a little bit that she'll turn into billy no mates...

In reply to KingStapo:

Send her to school and do any extra in your own time... Best of both worlds.

In reply to ianlaw:

Not really because we're a bit concerned that school will get in our/her way. We're not worried about her needing extra tuition, in many ways i expect the same volume of educating as at school could be accomplished at home much quicker and efficiently, leaving more time to play. And go on holiday.

At the minute i see lots of benefits to home schooling that are very attractive. But I would be interested to hear of people's direct experiences.

In reply to KingStapo:

The school curriculum,GCSE courses and A levels are facing huge upheavals in the next few years. Navigating through these changes is going to be hard enough for experienced teachers never mind 'amateurs'. However, with 35 years teaching experience, I would say that for nearly everyone, the social benefits of interaction with peers,inside and outside the classroom, is the most crucial consideration.

In reply to KingStapo:

I only know two people that where home schooled. Neither of them have particularly well paying job (but nor do most of the people I went to school with), however they also seem to lack in lots of social skills that you develop while in school.

In reply to earlsdonwhu:

How many employers actually look at GCSEs and A levels? I know I don't

In reply to KingStapo:

Going to school is about far more than just formal education.

The only home schooled kids I have known have the same neuroses as their parents.

In reply to KingStapo:

A couple of friends were home schooled. She turned out great, he went a bit off the rails at university. In my opinion the home schooling bit, absolutely great just make sure she has lots of clubs and hobbies with kids her age to learn the other stuff and make friends. They didnt have that from the start so found it difficult to integrate.

In reply to BAdhoc:

Apparently in many cities there are home school networks where kids and parents can get together to replicate the classroom 'experience' to a certain extent. This and clubs/activities would be heavily encouraged.

In reply to KingStapo:

Go for it, but when it comes to GCSEs and A-Levels, expect to pay for a fair few months of private tuition from a trained and experienced teacher (*), just to iron out any wrinkles and get her on track on various curricula. With the best will in the world, your home schooling will drift and deviate from what is expected. This is not a judgemental statement, it is simply born from observation. It'll be OK. Just set aside a few grand over the next 10 years or so.

I won't comment on the billy-no-mates aspect as I have not observed that.

* basically, Papa Straggler who is a retired teacher, has done a fair bit of this. All his former home-schooled tutees did well, but that's a self-selecting sample i.e. we are only observing those whose parents swallowed pride and sent them to Papa Straggler to get them through modern exams. Lord knows how many traumatised failures are out there!

In reply to woolsack:

Plenty. My sister had to leave a job she'd worked in for around a year when HR did a check (because she was going to be promoted) and found out she didn't have maths GCSE (she never claimed she did). I (with the required degree) can't apply for quite a few jobs I'm interested in because I don't have A-levels. Pretty annoying that.

Will watch the thread with interest, always thought this sounded like a good idea - the other half worries about lack of social contact/skills (she's a teacher).

In reply to thomasadixon:

I assume that in theory you could do something other than GCSEs and A levels to demonstrate acceptability for university? International baccalaureate for example....?

In reply to KingStapo: I haven't fog time just now but will try and post some more
There are around 100000+ children Home educated in the UK
Many go on to uni
I find the child more sociable out of there peer group ie better relations with the elderly
Yes it is hard work being a is
There's so much to say got to work
Paul

In reply to KingStapo:

My husband home educated until age 11, then went to school. He was parr of a home ed network, and those are still some of his best friends. They went on 'school trips' to castles, one parent organised drama classes etc. He was in scouts and played with the other kids in their street too. Socialising isn't really a big issue. As you say, huge benefits for family life. As others have said though, navigating the exam system could be a challenge, but I'm sure you will work it out if its the right thing for your family.

In reply to KingStapo:

I have got a kid in my bottom set at the moment who I hope will catch up and move up because she is bright but has enormous gaps in knowledge. She was home schooled until recently. She struggles with expected classroom behaviour because she was able to do as she pleased until recently. She doesn't have good social skills.

I hope that you will do a better job of this than her parents. Its a big responsibility.

In reply to KingStapo:

I have experience of home schooling on two fronts: I visit quite a few home school households through work; and we've been home schooling our kids for most of this academic year.

Let your child go to the local comprehensive; that, or pay for her to go to an independent. Don't, under any circumstances, try to do it yourselves. I'm also dead clever, have spent several years lecturing in post-compulsory education at pretty much all levels of the spectrum, and my wife is a very experienced teacher. We cheerfully admit that the kids are better off with their peers.

My considered opinion is that home schooled kids are weirdos and the apples have never fallen far from the tree.

Martin

In reply to KingStapo:


*sound the claxon*

In reply to maisie:

To say all Home educated children are weird and sate education,children are not is a litte ignorant.
My wife has Home educated 5of our 6 children, and only sorry that we didn't do it for all are kids. School is a place of learning who is doing the teaching
PAUL

In reply to woolsack:

Probably not many employers. But universities certainly look at those grades for their selection. Unless she's not planning on going to uni. Be a waste for someone dangerously clever!

In reply to Paul Troon:




Brilliant.

In reply to Paul Troon:

Wot?

In reply to KingStapo:
a powerful argument for home educating until 11/12 is that its an increasingly common belief that we start formal education (as opposed to learning through play) far too early in this country. I think I read that Gove is on about it starting at 4. Many countries don't start until children are 7 and the measurable outcomes at 16 are the same or better. Far more importantly children who start formal education "later" are said to be happier, although I have no idea how you would measure that. I have just looked for an article from Cambridge Uni dept of education that goes into some detail about this but I cant find it, it was linked to from my wife's facebook. If anybody can find it, please post the link. My middle boy is 5 and struggles to write his name and it really upsets him, no matter how many times we tell him its not a problem. His fine motor skills just have not developed enough yet, imagine trying to explain that to him and yes we have tried. However a couple of weeks ago he was pottering up the garden for an hour or so and I asked him what he had been doing. He replied "building a wall", when we went to look he had built a perfectly level and straight, 3 course by about 15 brick, wall with sand and soil mortar. When I asked him how he got it so straight he replied "I just keep standing here (at one end ) and looking".

In reply to Jamming Dodger:

I love this automatic assumption that dangerously clever people HAVE to go to university. Why can't they be setting up their own companies, doing their own thing?
Seems there's a lot of highly qualified people running around without the jobs they thought they would be walking into, post graduation. Getting a degree isn't the be-all and end-all is it?

In reply to KingStapo:

For me, the first 3 posts sum it up - kids don't just learn at school (whatever Michael Gove appears to think....), and they don't have to be socially isolated just because they don't attend school.

But for me, having found a school that suits them (and is fairly relaxed about testing, etc), the benefits to me of having some time away from them outweigh the downsides.

Motivations for home education vary wildly. There are certainly some pretty weird HE families out there (and plenty more weird families with kids in school). But then some of the other HE kids are amongst the brightest, most fun and most creative kids I've met. Who knows if they'd have turned out the same in school.

In reply to woolsack:

Its not the be all and end all. But he mentioned it in his OP...

In reply to mike123:

Is it this one, Mike?
http://www.cam.ac.uk/research/discussion/school-starting-age-the-evidence

My older one (now 8) still struggles with writing, but is way ahead in maths, and is prone to moaning that computing at school is boring because it's only drop and drag programming.

In reply to Carolyn:
thanks Carolyn

In reply to KingStapo:

I was home-schooled from 10-13, and then went back to school. If I hadn't been home-schooled, I wouldn't have ended up going to the school I eventually did, and if I hadn't gone there, I suspect I wouldn't have ended up at Cambridge Uni, so I'm pretty happy with how things turned out. My parents paid for some part-time teaching for Physics and French, and took GCSEs in all of those. My parents weren't remotely well off either - we had lodgers all through childhood, and took exactly one family holiday with our dad, ever. My mum took us all to stay in a youth hostel in Boulogne for a week to practice our French, which was good fun. Education Otherwise (home schooling group) organised a camping holiday, also great. I also had some other off-beat experiences during that time, like keeping my dad company for a week while he was working away on a building site, and helping out on the site (aged 11 - I know because we were listening to the news one morning lying in bed in the caravan and heard about Chernobyl). My mum sold home-made jewellery on a craft fair to raise a bit of extra cash; I got a recipe for home made lemonade and flogged it on the same stall. Made a killing.

Socially, it took me a while to develop in some areas, but for various reasons I don't think that would have been much different if I'd stayed at the first school.

Certainly, out of the things I might want to complain about in my childhood, my education is not one of them.

In reply to woolsack:


Believe it or not, some people still go to university to learn, not to get a degree... (Honest)

In reply to KingStapo:

Thanks all - some helpful and encouraging input there.

Particularly the article about how early formal education should start.

Big thanks to people for sharing their direct experiences on being home schooled or home schooling their own kids.

We've visited schools, in fact one yesterday that on paper was very good and the kids were bright and helpful. However they did come across as a bit brainwashed and I wasn't particularly impressed with their obsession with SATS. Honestly I wouldn't want my daughter to turn out like them, they seemed to be really incapable of out of the box thinking.

I'm not saying I have a genius child but I worry that she'd not achieve all that she could be being stuck in a school, I honestly think me and mum could do better. Certainly up to age 8ish.

If university is something she wants to persue I'm confident that a bit of private tuition I.e. Learning to pass exams can be paid for if needed. But that's a long way off yet.

In reply to KingStapo:

It's just a box ticking thing really, some employers require x number of UCAS points and so, even though I've got the required degree, I just couldn't apply. Not many, was just annoying really rather than a major problem - and yes, I could get them now. From what the other half says (she's tutored adults & kids) it's doable and not that expensive, although that would be with free tutoring (£25-30ish/hr otherwise, so not cheap).

I expect for us it will come down to what schools are available at the time - if what's available is comparable to what was my local school then I wouldn't want to send them there.

Woolsack - Many jobs you don't need anything, but many do, and having quals opens doors that are otherwise closed.

In reply to KingStapo:

I'll just add a little here. I went to a grammar from 11 onwards, and I can't urge you enough to put your kids into a school once they start approaching puberty.

Being a grammar everyone there was obviously of a certain level of intelligence, that said there were clear differences between kids that went to "normal" school, those that were privately educated and those that were home schooled up to that point.

I'm still good friends with a mix of them, and both the private and home schoolers have said they were much better at socialising with adults (not as equals) than with their own peer group.

Also good lord I feel sorry for Paul Troon's kids.

In reply to KingStapo:


Be really careful - and honest - about the influence you want to exert over your child in the early school years. I do subscribe to the Scandinavian model, where formal education starts at the age of seven and the emphasis before this is placed on socialization. The early school years are critical in learning how personal relationships work and experimentation is the only successful method of navigating the minefield; two of the major issues with home schooling are an absolute lack of wider socialization and an imposition of the parents' values on their child's social behaviour. Despite claims to the contrary, I've found home schooling parents to be fairly similar in their outlooks, once variables like level of education achieved and financial position are removed; ironically, the almost universal consideration is that they can do a better job than the professionals.

If you're determined to home school - and it's your choice alone - think about giving her a couple of years in school first, if only to build a diverse view of social interactions.

It's a massively complicated subject, and there are alternatives which allow you to educate your child without removing them from mainstream education. If you want a chat, feel free to PM me (if, of course, I'm talking bum then feel free to ignore me). But as Hemingway is supposed to have said, a happy, intelligent person is the rarest thing, so be careful about making your daughter TOO bright (!)

Martin

In reply to TomBaker:


You know he was just injecting a bit of humour, right? I thought it was a perfectly observed bit of irony.

Martin

In reply to maisie:

Ahhh if that's the case then I'm obviously being a little slow today.

In reply to TomBaker:


Well, one of us is, anyway. I'm wondering now if it might be me....

In reply to maisie:

I don't think Paul Troon was being funny or ironic, far to subtle if he was IMO. And if he was, well played Paul..you had me!

In reply to Bjartur i Sumarhus:


HIS parents were!

http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/poltroon

In reply to KingStapo:

Would you be doing it for you or her?

Seems to me the school experience is so much richer than just the lessons which can always be topped up if your kid really is smarter than the average bear or is falling behind. The social skills and networks one builds at school can be invaluable in later life.

Anyway, I wasn't home schooled and have never met anyone that was which perhaps says something about social circle sizes or perhaps says something about me, or both.

jk

In reply to KingStapo:

Retired teacher here. An issue, until recently, was that at school many bright kids seemed to need to hide how clever they were so as to fit in. Now, it seems to be trendy to be clever. I think "Big Bang Theory" is at least partly responsible for this attitude change.

In reply to KingStapo:

We're struggling with our son at the moment. Trying to get him assessed through CAMHS. Home schooling may be his only option.

The school thinks he is just badly behaved.

I suppose many would blame the parents by my daughter is top of the class at her school.

Might it be that we're all different and state education, despite its best intentions, cannot deal with this as OFSTEAD are looking at the SAT results.

In reply to DancingOnRock:


If you haven't already seen this, it's a must-watch:

http://www.ted.com/talks/ken_robinson_says_schools_kill_creativity

Part stand-up, part serious message (although Ken Robinson speaks perfect sense, secure in the knowledge that his theories will never be disproved in the real world; an enviable position for any academic)

With your son, it's likely - if you're right as a parent - that he'll be diagnosed with a condition that is partially defined by social awkwardness. Hopefully, experienced professionals will help you to keep him in mainstream education, as one of the worst outcomes would be to further reduce his social interactions: for a lot of kids in his position, social skills can be grindingly hard to attain, and very easy to lose irretrievably. I really hope it works out for you.

Martin

In reply to KingStapo:
Our 8 year old has been at school for a year (plus a year reception part time) and home schooled from then on.

Don't listen to the people who say 'all home schooled children lack social skills' or 'all school children lack imagination', it's not that simple. You'd think that was obvious but that's not the impression you get from this thread.

If you home school your child you have a much greater chance to influence their education, this can be great for the child or not depending on how well you do the education.

If you're intelligent, have the time, and expend the effort then the chances are you can offer a broader and better educational experience than most schools. It's also really worthwhile reading up on different educational approaches and deciding what would work best for you and your child.

If you want your child to go to Uni then they can always do GCSEs/A levels at college.
They might have other ideas about what they want to do at 18.

You also really want to make sure your child does see other children, and not just when you are there too, you have to spend time and effort making that happen.

Our one seems to be doing well, has done a lot of things she wouldn't otherwise of had an opportunity to do and has got lots of mates. Homeschooling is what you make of it.

In reply to maisie:

Feel sorry for my kids
Beth 6 plays the piano loves to read and bouldering and at birthday party to day
Nathen 12 plays the piano good in maths and English, climbed east face of tryfan at 10 he has read lord of the rings
Phoebe 14 grade 5 piano doing IGCSE in music English
History she's has diabetes 1 did her first Munro last month
Phoebe and Nathen are playing in a Volleyball comp next week.
Reuben 22 has a diploma in conservation and now work for himself.
Sam 28 now married has national diploma in horticulture.
I could go on
Paul

In reply to Paul Troon:

Paul, I haven't made any disparaging remarks about you or your kids; it's true that I thought you were taking the p1ss, for reasons that are clearly wrong, but you might want to direct your petulance at somebody else. Otherwise, you're just demonstrating my point and reinforcing my view.

Congratulations on your kids' achievements, by the way.

In reply to maisie: sorry
Paul

In reply to Mark Kemball:


That would be a great shift in attitude wouldn't it. At my comp, any sign of intelligence was rewarded with a text book off the back of the head and the label of "swotty c*nt" for the rest of the school year.

In reply to KingStapo:

I haven't read the entire thread responses , but my god child is home schooled, she plays piano to a high grade, speaks French and English fluently, some welsh too, is a good chorister, she may be a bit geeky by some standards but she has become so talented outside of the curriculum box, she finds her own space to make friends in choir/ youth groups - there are alternatives to mainstream education where children can excel, one of my own kids has grown up to be extraordinary outside of school.
Go with what your instincts are telling you, you know your own kids better than anyone and what's right for them.
Good Luck

In reply to KingStapo:

My eldest had a really shocking attendance record, but worked away at home herself and got excellent homework and exam results, she went on to uni and is now a speech therapist.

But of course If only she had had the 'benefit' of the teachers' input, she could have been a brain surgeon, or a rocket scientist

Go for it I say.

In reply to maisie:



I'm glad you posted this link up. I was going to do it but it didn't fit in to the discussion earlier on

In reply to woolsack:

It's a cracker, even if it's playing to the balconies. I think the obvious point is that we shouldn't see school as the only provider of education, but as the provider of the basics, with parents topping up as required.

Bloody hell, I just saw Dave MacLeod on the telly doing an epic heelhook.

Looking at the issue as a two-horse race is missing opportunities.

In reply to maisie:



Very interesting and re-assuring to someone with a 2.75 year old daughter who at times seems to have a very short attention span!

In reply to KingStapo:


At times?

If it's an intermittent problem at two years old, skip school and go straight for Oxbridge. Home schooling would be superfluous

Martin

In reply to Bjartur i Sumarhus:

Did no one get the pun in his user name? "Poltroon"?

poltroon (pɒlˈtruːn)
n
1. an abject or contemptible coward
adj
2. a rare word for cowardly

In reply to stroppygob:

Gerald, keep up:


HIS parents were!

http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/poltroon

In reply to KingStapo:
I am so glad we Home educate are children and they to seem to. It all started when are 3 born was 3 and diagnosed with leukaemia. He was still in and out of hospital at 6, so in and out school,though school tried it couldn't cope. At the same time are 2ND clild was/is dyslexic then school at time could not help him.. We had friends who Home Ed and we thought not for us. As time went on it became impossible we sort the advice and started to Home Ed. From then on we battled through getting both boys through collage. They have/are achieving. So when more children arrived we carried on which is another story, I have an amazing good.wife too
Paul

In reply to KingStapo:


I hope that is a joke.

Seriously are you one of those pushy parents that plays music to the bump and continues to educate their child when the best thing for the child to do would be play? Children are amazing learning machines, but I sometimes think that they learn more when adults stop interfering. Feed their curiosity, have interesting things for them to play with and let them be children.

Not that my opinion counts of course because you know best. My training and experience is nothing because anyone can teach.

In reply to woolsack:

I met some of my best mates at Uni. One in particular helped me find my path.

In reply to marsbar:

I think he is trying not to be the other end of the scale that just shoves them in a high chair in front of the TV-baby sitting-child minding machine

In reply to KingStapo:

When I was looking for graduate jobs many of the online application forms required you to enter your UCAS points/A-level results, having not entered uni through this method I was unable to apply for many jobs that I have the correct degree for.

In reply to woolsack:

Not advocating that either. Middle ground is fine. All I am saying is let kids be kids. They are good at it. Toddlers don't need an attention span.

In reply to marsbar:


I agree little ones have great imaginations and that some times can get pushed out by a desire to entertain them.

Then aside have you ever watched an new film and observed the editing then watch a older film,it's quite nice but then I am getting old
Paul

In reply to KingStapo:
I've no experience / opinion either way to be honest, but was curious about how it works?

What's the protocol for a parent wishing to home-school their child? Do they need to be vetted to make sure they're suitable and actually have the skills necessary? That the child will receive an adequate level of education, and that the progress is being maintained along the way?

There's obviously some posters on here who have home schooled their kids and done a fantastic job...but I'm imagining there's lots of parents who think they could do a better job than mainstream teachers - but in reality don't have the skill set and motivation to teach the spectrum of subjects a child needs.

Interesting thread, by the way.

In reply to ThunderCat:

It's the parents' responsibility to ensure their children recieve an education - they can either do that by sending them to school, or by making other arrangements as they see fit. There's currently no obligation to register with the local authority (or anyone else), although some parents chose to.

If you want more detail, probably best to look at the "Education Otherwise" website, because I've forgotten the finer details!

In reply to ThunderCat:
The lea and offsted come as yet no thought police
Paul

In reply to Paul Troon:



Come again?

In reply to ThunderCat:
Yes we do get an a visit from the LEA, who also work for offsed. They come every year and assess there progress
Thought Police are from G Orwell 1984
Paul

In reply to KingStapo:
My 2p: if your dau is clever, I think she's better off at school as far as her overall development goes. I would be personally more inclined to help my child more myself at home in some form or other if for any reason they couldn't learn at school. Obviously you need to take other factors into consideration etc as you pointed out.

Basically I don't see as strong a reason to home school if you're still going to follow GCSEs, A-Levels etc. Your daughter's education will be largely confined by the curriculum and my guess is that you'll find that to prepare her adequately for the exams, you'll need to spend the vast majority of your time doing the same old as school eg solving past papers, revision etc. plus you'll need to be very disciplined to make sure you cover all the bases (team sports, activities etc), it's a full-time job...

Now, if you told me that you wouldn't worry about GCSEs etc and you'd teach her other things that could be more useful in life, take her travelling instead of spending hours burried in geography and history books etc, I can see the benefit

In reply to KingStapo:

Hi .
I'm home educated at the moment just finishing my GCSE's . I've never been to normal school so cannot compare the two directly .
As an experience it has been varied and exciting. Just realise that there is no support , no safety net . If you want your child to be a intelligent , critically thinking and qualified person , you will have to make it happen. . I've done loads of awesome stuff . I've toured military bases , been a member of my regional youth council , engaged with politicians , gone to scores of nature reserves , factories , museums and art galleries . There is no limit to what you can learn given the freedom to do so .
As for those with concerns about whether home edders can get on in life , I think those fears are unfounded . My sister has a place at Cambridge university - she was home educated . Her best friend , also home educated , is going to Oxford . One of my best home Ed friends was selected to go to chethems music school in Manchester .
Just take every opportunity possible and engage with other groups - I'm an air cadet , I've played in various music groups , I'm a member of a debating club and an entomological society . You will come across all kinds of weird people . Anarchists , religious fundamentalists , no end of hippy types and quite a lot of people with kids who have had issues at school . But it is in my view , the best way to be educated .

In reply to SethChili:

An excellent account from an articulate product of the home school system. Well done.

In reply to SethChili:


That's the issue. Like I said I tend to see the failures not the success. Most parents don't have what it takes, and I don't just mean intelligence. Sounds like your parents have.

In reply to KingStapo:

Some really interesting perspectives and personal accounts in this thread.

The one thing that stuck in my mind that hasn't really been mentioned is the lack of interaction with other figures of authority.
I didn't like every teacher I had at school and more importantly they didn't all like me, perhaps that may have held me back marginally in the odd subject temporarily, but it's part of a much bigger learning experience.
As completely ridiculous as it may sound I guess I'm trying to ask if being home schooled might be a bit to positive and not really a true reflection of the real world?
I'm not for one second inferring that we should start treating young people badly just to prepare them for adulthood. I'm just trying to say that for me growing up there were good experiences and bad, and to a certain extent the bad experiences were just as valuable.
There's no doubt in my mind that if I'd had one to one tuition, only ever received constructive critisism and been taught outside of a curriculum textbook I would have been far more scholarly, I'm just not sure how I would have handled my first day at work when the boss gave me some work to do, treated me with little more than contempt for the rest of the morning, only changing his/ her stance later in the day to tell me how unimpressed they were with the work I'd done.

Perhaps an extreme example but hopefully you can see what I'm getting at?
Just food for thought
Good luck with whatever you decide!
Add

In reply to SethChili: Brilliant we'll done
Paul

In reply to Paul Troon:




Paul, you seem to be taking my posts as some sort of attack and I promise you none is intended. I was merely asking whether someone can take their child out of 'mainstream' education and assume the role of educator without any sort of assessment themselves.

I'm very much aware of the term 'thought police', I'm just not entirely sure how it fits in with this discussion.

In reply to Paul Troon:



"an visit"?

"there" progress?

Wonderful advert for home schooling!.

In reply to ThunderCat:



Sorry I came across like that, I do rush posts making me abrupt.

Paul

In reply to Paul Troon:

No probs dude. It was a genuine question. I think home schooling as great in principle, I just worry about who polices the parents, you know what I mean?

I think I'm quite intelligent....but nowhere near enough to actually educate a child....I worry about the people who might let their ego actually get in the way ...

In reply to Paul Troon:



Again, judging by your reports of your kids, you've done a ***** amazing job with your kids mate. This is more aimed at the people who THINK they could do such an awesome job, but actually couldn't. Who policies them?

In reply to marsbar:

Precisely!! I fear that no school could EVER achieve this. Hence my interest in home schooling.

And no, I'm not one of "those pushy parents " whatever they are! I'm a f*cking good parent which is why i can see in my daughter specific personality traits and abilities that may well be nurtured by excellent teachers at the right school. But I fear that may be too much of a gamble in hoping for that. If we do it ourselves the gamble is something else.

In reply to ThunderCat:
Who policies them ? This is quite hard to know as some children though registered at Berth,don't go on and then register with the LEA, even when contact is made. To some this is just not wanting any state control in the way they live and teach, others are have something to hide,how many fall into is unknown!
At the moment there is basic government legisation on what you can teach, however Welsh assembly are trying push through powers to the LEA and enforce parents what to teach,again those we with something to hide may find this problematic
Paul

In reply to KingStapo:

I suggest you have a look at Montessori education. It is child centred and based on the principal of supporting the child to discover but also covers interaction with others in a really positive way.

In reply to KingStapo:

It has aspects that could be home ed as well as at a Montessori school. Please be aware that not all schools calling themselves Montessori are accredited.

In reply to Paul Troon:


In our case, nobody. We literally would have had more hassle taking the kids out of school for a fortnight's holiday than we did in removing them from the school system altogether.

I'm not sure how long it takes ofsted to catch up, but we've had no communications at all, a year on. The youngest will be back in school in September, so perhaps there have been some joined-up conversations at County level (although I doubt it).

Paul, you're rightly proud of what your kids have achieved, but most of what they do / have done is non-academic. This is in contrast to what most parents seem to expect, which is that their little 'geniuses' will circumvent the school system and still receive all the plaudits from, er, the education system that they profess to despise.

What is that your kids have got out of home schooling which they wouldn't have got from the local school?

Martin

In reply to KingStapo:

...i can see in my daughter specific personality traits and abilities that may well be nurtured by excellent teachers at the right school.

Even in the best of schools, there is almost no chance of individually crafted for every child. Go for the home schooling if that is what you want for your child.

I kind of like the idea of starting the academic stuff a little later ( unless the child is particularly interested) I think getting out with them in nature at 3 -6, and only then start to look at the ' academic' lessons that best suits your child.

I would not see that as 'falling behind' , as those who want to 'deliver ' their child almost straight into the classroom would do.

My wife has been a childminder for many years, and there are a lot of kids we see that are not really ready for school, despite the parents , and my wife , who has specific training, as well as past experience, doing all they can to prepare them .

They are not 'backward' , they are just themselves, and need a bit more time than others to settle. Starting school for these kids can be traumatic, for them their parents, and yeas the teachers, and that also impacts on the rest of the class. Gifted children, also give the school system challenges, that can't do for each child what home schooling could do.

My kids have done well enough, all through uni, at least but I do wonder, IF my granddaughter ( 15 months) had the option of her mother / grandmother home schooling
( my daughter pretty much taught herself through secondary)
would my granddaughter benefit , and not just academically?

Just one of these imponderables, as every child is different we will never know for sure.

In reply to maisie:
Hi been out all day not had a chance to reply to your post.Thanks for encouragement, however we can't take all praise.

You nothing to worry about the authorities, you do have a right to remove your child and Home educate. I know Germany have made it difficult if not banned it!

What is that your kids have got out of home schooling which they wouldn't have got from the local school?
Freedom to learn at there own pace slow or fast
Freedom to learn more deeply subjects that side Lind

Seeing there struggles early and acting on them
Less peer pressure to conform Or to have
Just some
Hope this helps

In reply to KingStapo:

School teaches conformity and nothing much else. Children learn for around 2 hours per day, the rest of the time is spent waiting in line for various things, eating suspect school dinners and being pushed into a dull yard to to nothing much at 'playtime'. Children ask around 27 quesions per day until they begin school. Reception year children ask around 2 questions per day as asking a question within a class of 30 does not really work out. Home educated children have lots of groups to join in with and many friends of various ages. School children are grouped together based on nothing but the fact they were born in the same year, not very natural!Home school teenagers tend to begin college at 14 and fit in well. Google Carl Rogers, Psychologist, regarding autonmous learning. "The only thing that hinders my learning is my education." Albert Einstein. Schools out forever

In reply to KingStapo:

With the best will in the world I don't see how you can avoid restricting your child's education, potential and social interactions.

Home schooling may work where the child has problems at school. But if the child can cope send them to school and help to supplement their learning.

Between my wife and I we've got 3 degrees from Oxford and can cover just about any aspect of natural sciences and engineering. But I'd never inflict that limited a scope on my child despite believing it to be the most important part of the curriculum.

In reply to Philip:




I suppose it depends what you consider education is all about. Getting a whole bunch of fairly useless bits of paper?

In reply to marsbar:


Yeah, toddlers are happy enough in their random and imaginative worlds. ()

In reply to woolsack:

Doesn't how useful they are depend on where one wants to go in life? While not all graduates get the jobs they expected to, I'm sure there are those who have who wouldn't have done without their degrees, and people with degrees still earn more than those without them, on average.

I don't have a degree, but I'll need one in ecology or similar to go onto do what I'd ultimately like to do for a job.

This is probably a subject for a different thread though.

In reply to Philip:



I think you've missed the point here . The national curriculum and all things associated with it are by their nature extremely narrow and prone to hijacking by ideological nut jobs like Michael Gove .
I am lucky that my dad has 2 degrees in engineering , my mum has a degree in history and did basic teacher training - but I still taught myself environmental studies GCSE and got an A* . School and education are not necessarily synonymous . Go on amazon ,buy the textbooks , do the experiments and lo and behold you have covered a subject . I love education and learning , but the idea of being cooped up in an establishment with hundreds of other people , many of whom are disruptive or don't want to be there fills me with dread .

In reply to woolsack:


Education is preparing them for the world. Whether that's one where they'll need degrees or not. I'd rather my son went mostly his own way, with the variety of school and just his mum and I there to help a bit. Pretty much how both of us were bought up by parents who were bright but in no way experienced in what we did for degrees and what we now do for jobs.

I think if you're going to take a child out of school for any reason other than the child unable to cope you need to think hard about why you're doing it.

That's a very different experience to my school days. Maybe I'm being naive - I never thought schools could be seen like that.

In reply to SethChili:


As somebody who went to school it fairly often filled me with dread, but not always.

Obviously it's impossible for me to say if I'd been better off home schooled.

It helped me to learn how to deal with change in life.

In reply to Philip:
Not being a guilt ridden Catholic anymore and not having to go to school anymore are roughly equal for me in terms of 'Whoopee I'm free'.

I was born early though, which statistically may have ment I lagged behind my peers in different ways.

In reply to Philip:


I think where you live may have a bearing on what schools are on offer. I've ended up selling a kidney to put my son into private education because the local state options for him are pretty dire

In reply to Philip:


Even in a good school some people can just find school a bit much a lot of the time.

In reply to Philip:


With the best will in the world , I don't see how sending your child to school can avoid restricting their potential . The social mobility figures for the uk speak for themselves here . Schools have only one thing on their mind - securing funding . Name one thing which schools can do which that I can't do better . I can do competitive sport in my own time . I can , on a whim investigate any subject or field of study . I can do music in my own time . I can travel in my own time without school term restrictions . I can turn up at free university lectures on nanotechnology and astrophysics in my own time .
Interestingly , I couldn't read till aged 7 . In a school ,this would have put me in special measures and made me a marked man for the rest of my educational life . I've never been bullied or physically attacked and I've never faced the humiliation of detentions or solitary confinement as several of my state schooled friends have .



Should education be about coping ? I thought it was about thriving and developing your mind .

In reply to Philip:


I think, being her parents we're best placed to understand her interests, strengths and weaknesses and to spot that spark of curiosity in a certain subject that needs nurturing. Also better placed to spot that glazed over uninterested look when other subjects are mentioned. This would lead to a more focused education, delving deeply into subjects that truly inspire and interest, and avoiding the time wasting ones.


This is important. The child shouldn't have to 'cope'. Since when is simply coping enough?! I want my child to have the best of everything available and school, with all its artificial constraints, conformity and one-size-fits-all system simply cannot be the best solution.


Between my wife and I, i've got 3 degrees. Like yourselves I can do engineering, maths and science up to university and well beyond for physics and engineering. My wife is a gifted artist, musician, can cook and sow/crochet and used to be an accountant. So we're well placed to 'educate' as needed. But teaching subjects in the traditional manner (school-style) is probably not what we'd like to achieve from home schooling. Imagine waking up at 9 or ten on a monday, strolling down to breakfast and informally starting the day's 'teaching': today we'll talk about space/art. Two or three hours later we've taken ourselves out to the National Space Centre/The National Portrait Gallery to learn more. Because that's how the 'lesson' progressed.

Opportunities like this, to really plough deep into a subject if the fancy takes you are what a school could never offer.

Like I said, i want what is best. I'm increasingly seeing many negatives with school and my one worry about social interaction/development that a school may be able to offer over home-schooling is increasingly being shown up to be unfounded.

Also - no school run or getting up early and cheap family holidays when everyone else is at school!

Thanks to everyone who's offered useful insights and perspectives, even to those that i'm not in agreement with. I think we're about 95% in favour of home schooling at this stage certainly until she's 7 or 8.

Anybody else been persuaded either way by comments on here (hopefully in conjunction with your own research and analysis - It'd be fool who let UKC wholly decide their fate (shit! split infinitive!))?

In reply to KingStapo:

No direct experience of home schooling, but I do teach complex concepts to young adults. Sometimes I find that I reach an impasse, a mental block, with a student, when working 1:1. Finding out where the gap in understanding lies is critical to moving past it, and with some students the most useful thing I can do is ask a colleague to step in - a fresh approach can be the most efficient way to do this.

That's a luxury you might not have working at home, and so you will need to cultivate a lot of patience.

I've always thought the best bit about home schooling would be in taking the time to devise a curriculum and learn enough to teach it well, teaching can be a fantastic way to learn. With perhaps a similar background to you I would confidently take on most national curriculum subjects, with the exception of music (epic fail) and foreign languages - I would do more harm than good there, and would shell out for expert tuition.

Given what I hear from teachers, the "send them to school to learn interaction and top up the teaching afterwards" line doesn't hold much water, unless I wanted them to learn that you have to shut up and sit down for an hour whilst Teacher has a battle of wills with someone else who wants to throw things at Teacher, and another kid sits there making weird noises, and that the most important thing in school is being tested. Perhaps i just know several unlucky teachers.

In reply to KingStapo:

It might be worth noting that a lot of people would call what you talk about "home education" rather than "home schooling" (which is widely used in US, but tends to suggest a more formal approach in the UK). Some of the HE community can get quite heated about such things!!

It's also worth thinking about how the adults will get some time away from the child, particularly if it's one adult who'll be with them most of the time rather than shared - that was a big factor in my decision to go with school to start with, as having a 5 year old and 2 year old permanently at home would have driven me pretty crazy. If it's just one kid, it's a bit easier to arrange some time off, though

And don't forget that you can generally learn things with your child if you're not afraid to try. I had to learn degree level immunology whilst I did my post doc. Since having kids I've learnt an awful lot about types of diggers and farm machinery. Now I'm being forced to learn JavaScript to keep up. I only know one primary school teacher who's got the edge on me there.

In reply to KingStapo:

Really fascinating and well-mannered thread.

I don't have experience or a clear opinion on home schooling, but recently started work at a primary school. I am not a teacher and have no strong views about the way that teaching is generally approached, but have obvserved a couple of things that might be relevant here.

The school (which would probably look fairly average on paper) is an incredibly rich and interesting place for the children. They are exposed to lots of different adults, children, places, cultures, activities, interests etc just by walking down the corridor. The school offers immediate access to (literally) scores of extra-curricular activities, many of which are actualy introduced and supported within the classroom. There are links in place to follow up on almost any area of interest or concern from a child.

Many of the attitudes, approaches and activities that I see are not ones that I would wish to offer to children of my own. This has reinforced my view that my own kids would benefit from a diverse school environment. They would escape my own unwitting prejudice and bias and discover new aspects the world for themselves each day (albeit through the prism of the individual school).

One thing I have noticed is that the school is not very good at helping parents to understand the complexity and richness of school life. As a result, many fail to appreciate what their children gain from the school experience, and also struggle to work with the school to address concerns and issues. This is undoubtedly a downside of sending your kids to school - when things go astray you might have to work hard to know how to respond.

Apologies for the slight hijack - it's not a personal experience of home ed/schooling.

Good luck making a decision - the fact that you give a damn has already given your kids an advantage!

In reply to wintertree:




One of the advantages to home school is there is no set timetable for learning, a child doesn't have to be at certain stages at certain times.
Sometimes there is a mental block because the child is just not ready for the concept, or they may need to take some time (days, weeks, months) to think about it, re-iterate it and do learning around the idea.

In school there may be no time for this, if you don't get the idea the whole class can't wait, you'll be left behind. At home you have the luxury of tailoring the education to the child so you can either concentrate on the concept they are struggling with, concentrate on related ideas or concepts, or just leave the idea for a while and come back to it. There's plenty of other things you can do in the meantime.

Of course in other topics they might not struggle at all and you've got the freedom to pursue these faster than you might in school.

In reply to wintertree:


Other pupils can spark interesting tangents too. That number of different points of view could be hard to replicate when home schooling.


A secondary school teacher family friend has apparently commented that she's having to teach her pupils little tricks on how to pass the tests now thanks to Michael Gove.

In reply to SethChili:


That's an interesting point, a brother once commented that he thought school could be quite useful in teaching you how to deal with people who aren't very pleasant or friendly. He's a music teacher and one of his pupils was home schooled.

I suppose there's the danger of children being surrounded by niceness to the degree that they could struggle to cope when they become adults.

I'm not sure about your reading making you a marked man for the rest of your educational life. I had extra help with my reading from parents and teachers when I was in primary school and went on to do well at English. In a nice school the extra help can be nurturing in nature, rather than stigmatising for the child.

In reply to woolsack:


would i be correct in thinking that woolsack's son will not be in this situation...'Children ask around 27 questions per day until they begin school. Reception year children ask around 2 questions per day as asking a question within a class of 30 does not really work out'…of being lost within a class too big for meaningful interaction? So in essence home schooling is just the other end of the spectrum (although i guess a lot of the comments above seem to suggest that a 1:1 relationship (i.e. only 1 adult educating) may not be ideal either.
Hmmm. if only there was a way we could enable all kids to get an education like that…without having to sell a kidney!

lardbrain

PS not criticising Woolsack - you do the best for the ones you love - we're just lucky in that our local primary schools have about 20-50 kids in (total)

In reply to Timmd:


Out of interest, why "thanks to Michael Gove"? Don't the relevant policies pre-date him?

In reply to Removed User:

He went from a class of 33 to one of 15.

In reply to Coel Hellier:


I'm not sure about secondary, but didn't he introduce some of his own at primary level - such as the end of year 1 phonics screening (which my child managed to "fail" because he tended to read by sight by that stage).

In reply to Coel Hellier:


I have no opinion on Gove as I have no school age children and I'm not a teacher - and therefore find it hard to see what he has or hasn't done. But little tricks to pass exams has always been a feature. I remember our physics teacher, who also marked for one of the exam boards, spending a lesson teaching how to pass the exam. The whole point of exam revision for the weeks before GCSEs was about learning to answer the style of question.

My sister-in-law and her husband are both teachers. They hate Gove. But any criticism seems to roll up work load, exams, pensions, retirement dates. It's hard to weed out what it is about the curriculum that he has done to upset them, when they are so prejudiced against his department for reasons of employment terms.

In reply to Coel Hellier:

The policies do (or policies of a similar nature do), but their 'intensity' (for want of a better word) has increased, hence the need for the teaching tricks to enable them to pass.

It's a change which has coincided with Michael Gove's arrival. Any more than that I can't tell you.

In reply to Philip:

Certainly GCSEs and A-levels -- in science anyhow -- have been through a period of highly prescriptive and stereotyped exams where the examiners were looking for particular words and concepts, and you had to use exactly the right phrasing to get full credit. Paraphrasing or different-approach answers that to a scientist would be just as good, or even better, tended to get penalised. This was and is a real problem with the exams, and certainly led to a lot of exam coaching and telling the kids exactly which words to use.

My understanding, though, is that this trend started around 15 years ago, and that if anything Gove its now trying to reverse it and have more "traditional" exams which are less structured and less prescriptive in how they are marked.

Of course the real culprit here is the exam boards. I'm guessing that the highly-prescriptive exams arose through (1) a misguided desire for "objectivity", thus one cannot allow a marker any flexibility to interpret an answer, (2) enabling them to have less-competent, and thus cheaper, markers, since they only have to mark by rote script, rather than actually understanding the subject and being able to evaluate an answer, and (3) the more stereotypical the exams the easier it is to coach weak students through them, and the big drive in exams over recent decades has been to get good grades for the middle-ability student.

I've tried Google, but perhaps someone can point a link to a reliable source detailing these damaging changes. Apart from the separate issue of employment terms, and the scrapping of modular/coursework favouring final exams, I can't find anything.

What's the difference between a teacher teaching a subject and teaching how to pass the exam in a subject? Is there an example of these tips & tricks?

Serious question, because when I was at school history consisted of learning some history and then learning how to write an answer to a question about it. So you read about WW1, and then you learnt how to construct an argument. This included how to read what the question was actually asking, so if it said "Explain the reasons for WW1" you didn't just state them, you explained what they were and why they contributed.

In science or maths, you showed working and made sure the answer was complete. So the answer to "why does the sun emit radiation", if 1 mark then "black body radiation from nuclear fusion reaction" if 5 marks then you were expected to explain those terms in detail.

In reply to Timmd:


Is that so? Currently Gove is pushing for an end to modular exams and instead having exams at the end, thus fewer exams overall. He's also reducing re-sits and assessed coursework.

In reply to Coel Hellier:
Currently tricks are having to be taught so pupils can pass exams where they weren't before, but you'd be better off asking a teacher affected.

Don't read anything into my not having an answer for you, to do with whether it's true.

In reply to Timmd:

C'mon guys - start a Gove bashing thread of your own rather than here please.

In reply to KingStapo:

Check out:

http://www.educationotherwise.net/

Depending where you live home-schooling families get together and do things co-operatively so the children socialising gets down that way.

In reply to KingStapo:

As for learning I have a friend who's daughter was home schooled for most of her life. She joined a school just before GCSEs and was ahead of most other kids my friend said. Apparently that's quite typical.

One reason is that because the kids aren't forced to something they don't want to do they don't get into an attitude that education is bad and is something to be resisted.

But there are many different ways to home school so once you decide to home school you're daughter its pretty much an open book from there.

In reply to ThunderCat:


My family moved about alot and i went to 3 different secondary schools.

1st was a grammar and being smart was a good thing and respected by other pupils.

2nd Fee paying international school. Being smart was of no importance as far as i can remember no-one was ever assesed or tested it was like a holiday camp.

3rd Standard comprehensive. Openly being smart would result in being bullied or branded as a swot. Quite a few people in my year left school with no qualifications but have done well educationally afterwards. One in particular left school with nothing but retook GCSEs at college and eventually went on the study at LSE and is now a senior journalist with a global news agency.

I really hope that it remains fashionable to be smart. My twins start their educational journey this september. I don't think I could home school them