UKC

did this the other day and had an absolute nightmare on pitch 2 so just want to put my mind to rest as to if i did or didnt go the right way. how high do you cross the groove of lyme cryme? i originally dropped down a bit so that the peg was at chest height and tried to pull up and across using the crack to lay-back and secondly tried higher with the peg around my ankle doing a lay-back off some small pockets before bridging onto a tiny foot hold. i noticed some polish a bit higher up and wondered if people went higher still and i was lured in by the peg which was part of lyme cryme and not meant to be used on debauchery.

absolutely incredible route tho, and the hardest e1 ive done doing it the way i did and would not have argued with 5c for that sequence. Thanks in advance for any info!

In reply to jmills94:

Glad I'm not the only one that had a mare trying to navigate it!

Didn't help that I had 2 guidebooks with clearly different finish points!

I'll agree it's a fantastic route - it had been on my tick list for some time.

In reply to jmills94:

is that the section immediately after the belay? i didn't use the peg out left. Went up the crack immedialtey left of the belay (the crack has useless pegs that are too far into the crack but takes cams) & traversed across from there. seemed quite easy this way.

In reply to leon:

getting onto the crux section? peg at chest height(bit of a long step across right?) then high step onto the good slopy foothold then one more move to the next peg. i thought the 1st pitch had the harder crux & harder route finding.

In reply to LastBoyScout:
>
When I did it the pair ahead included the first ascentionist, Chris Jackson, who took ages. When we caught up at the top.

"What happened Chris, find it hard?"

"No, I got lost"

In reply to leon:

Yes that's the section. I didn't go up the crack from the belay tho and wednt left first then up (still reached the same crux section). Interesting that when you did the peg was by your chest, where you using the little pockety things to lay back off as you stepped across? Is the 'slopey foothold' the large polised bit below the peg? Tried standing on that and it didn't go to well haha... I can confirm the peg holds

In reply to jmills94:
i shuffled along the ledge until there was an obvious slopey foothold below the peg(i.e. down by feet if waist is at peg) & like you said lay backed off the pockets. i found that as long as i used the very left of the ledge instead of the best bit of it the move across was quite easy (i've long legs). the crux was then a high step onto another large sloper with my right foot using the good crimp & layaways higher on the slab for hands. i thought mild 5b that way.

In reply to jmills94:

Debauchery is all up and left, up and left, don't recall any down climbing. After the belay, yes, you go up the crack at the left hand edge of the belay. That's the line of Robert Brown. After a few hardish moves you get on better holds and move left into the groove of Lyme Cryme. Don't recall exactly after that but you either move left at the same level or up and left, onto an obvious hand traverse line.

In reply to Misha: thanks its the height of the move across the groove that confused me as it could clearly be done at 3 different levels, the rest of the route was as you said obvious. Any thoughs as to if the line drawn in the rockfax book is for hands or feet? (I've always wondered this as especially here it would clarify things)

In reply to leon: this sounds like what I eventually did but maybe didn't spot the best part of the footholds like you did, I'm quite tall (6'1) so was expecting the bridging to be easier but I don't think I found to good crimp to help with the high step like you did

In reply to jmills94:

Yes I do the little step down and left into the Lyme Cryme groove so the big peg is at chest level - the crux of Debauchery follows with a tricky move up using the crack (right hand in it I think) and pocket(s) for the left hand. This will bring you to another peg and bigger holds leading up leftwards. The moves up left and around the bulging nose are tricky too.

In reply to steveb2006:

i know what you mean, once you get to the break the foot holds disappear! there was a tricky move getting stood up from there using undercuts, its got quite a few moves in it that pitch.

In reply to steveb2006:

I wasn't sure if I'd gone the right way but reading all these posts sounds like we all had the same idea. With the bolt at waist height I used a pinch for my left hand to the right of the crack. Used the foot hold under the peg and reached up to the first pocket with my right hand. I remember it well as I stood there for ages working the move out (being a wimp).

In reply to jmills94:
When I did this with my brother about twenty years ago, he led pitch 2. He had a runner on before the Lyme Cryme groove that protected the crux, but forgot to put any runners on for the second man (me!). The rope was running diagonally up across the crag to another runner not far from the top of the cliff, so I was facing an enormous swing (into a buttress) if I came off. Because of the line of the rope, I hadn't a clue where to go and went up Lyme Cryme by mistake and got myself into such difficulties that I had to rest on a small wire. Trouble was the nut was more or less resting on a nubbin, so I daren't move whilst standing in the sling. Eventually, I worked out what I had to do. The instant I unweighted the nut it fell into the trees below and I clawed my way up the remainder of Lyme Cryme and then traversed up and across to the belay, completely pumped. Words were exchanged. Gordon was saying what a wonderful pitch and how much he had enjoyed it, whilst I was pointing out that it was less than fun for me!

In reply to jmills94:

Can't remember but it being an E1 going across harder territory, following the easiest line makes sense!

In reply to John Stainforth:


Umm. My version coming up. The main point was that the whole route had been more or less stripped of pegs, obviously not long before we did it. The mid-way stance had nothing left but one very old rusty peg that was hammered so close to the rock you couldn't get anything in it. Made for a rather serious nut belay - and, as soon as John joined me (I led pitch 1 as well) - we added some nuts.

Then, v much like the OP here, I had a lot of trouble finding the right line to cross the groove of Lime Cryme (all this is way up and left of the belay ... some posts here are a bit mystifying ... it's quite easy 5a climbing for about 20-25 feet to that point.) There was NO gear here at all. The famous long sling, that guys in the Oread had told me about, was not there. I had one runner before that, couldn't find anything else that worked, so eventually, after trying at two levels higher up, launched across the groove very low - suspect it was the correct route, because some hidden holds came to hand, but then ... really hard. Definitely 5c, as the OP suggests. I remember making two very hard moves up and left with my feet on sod all, just above some mini-overhangs, very exposed, and then my hand went into this massive left-facing flake. A superb edge, but that was all. I could feel my strength draining from my left arm as I looked for gear placements - and just couldn't lean far enough to the left to see what size nut I'd need for the flake I was hanging off - I was definitely about to fal off. I looked up and saw this amazingly friendly, very new-looking peg in a horizontal break about 12-15 feet up and slightly right of me. I made a fairly lightning decision then: not to fiddle about trying to place a nut in a crack I couldn't see properly, pulling up lots of slack rope etc., and just went for it. I seemed to be at the peg c. two seconds later, almost like levitation.

I certainly found it an amazing crux, but it was certainly very hard, and may not have been on the correct route. The crux was quite a long way to the left (6-8 feet?) of the Lyme Crime groove.

In reply to Gordon Stainforth:
Its not 5c (there is no 5c anywhere on the second pitch of lyme cryme either) and it's well protected with modern gear. There are some good nut placements, and a peg not far away.

I think the op's lower sequence sounded right but I think any is acceptable in that position/route.

In reply to Si dH:



Well, I'm not saying that I went the right way - sounds as if I almost certainly didn't. But the first pitch, which seemed fairly graded at 5b for a couple of moves, gave me absolutely no problem at all; whereas the second (at the crux, and for about five moves) felt a full technical grade harder. As I say, most of the pegs had recently been stripped so the line was not at all obvious. I suspect I was too low, and got too far to the left. After the crux I climbed straight up/slightly rightwards (at c. 5a/b) to reach a very new peg in the horizontal break just right of that big downward-pointing nose thing. From there to the top, traversing leftwards, it was much easier technically - c.4b, or less, but on some dubious rock, requiring care.

PS. funny how a lot of people have trouble around there, even when all the pegs are in place. (See Postmanpat's story above of first ascensionist Chris Jackson 'getting lost' on it - and I know he's done it about 2 dozen times!)

In reply to Si dH:

... anyhow, main point is I got up it OK, having led the whole thing, and thought it one of the best routes of it's type that I'd ever done. Of course, what makes it great is that the route takes the line of least resistance all the way, with quite intricate route finding, and with no easier ways off. Plus the exaggerated exposure effect of being over Matlock Bath.

In reply to Gordon Stainforth:

BTW ... apologies for that 'it's' ... )

In reply to jmills94:

thanks for all the posts guys! it would appear i was in the right place but should have stuck with my initial sequence rather than traversing higher with the peg at ankle level. when i tried the correct sequence i never found pockets for the left hand??? are you using your left hand on the right hand side of the grove or are there decent pockets on its left hand side? (two conflicting posts from what i can understand)