UKC

For some reason, someone has been painting grades on the rock at the base of routes at Secret Garden in Kalymnos.

How silly. I'm sure it isn't a UKC member, of course, but isn't it apparent that grades, especially on tufa routes like these, can change (up or down) quite easily and quite often? For example, routes like Route 69, Savina, Syrtaki Lessons and Princess Marine have all dropped a grade, Puffa, Puffa, Puffa on the other hand has shot UP several grades with the loss of crucial holds, and the grade of the ever popular Ricounet has bobbed down then up within the last 3 years.

So please stop it. It's not needed as there's a free on-line topo to Secret Garden. Although it's tradition here to neatly write on the route name (preferably in blue, as requested in the guidebook), painting on the grade is superfluous and quite likely to become incorrect.

In reply to carl dawson:

I'm not so negative about writing grades on the rock. Whether this was the right thing to do at Secret Garden, a while after the routes have been put up and with a free online topo is somewhat debatable, I agree.

However, on the routes I put up, I always (discretely) paint name and grade at the base. The routes are free for everyone to use and I think it just helps. If written in small font, it is not unsightly either. I always to it in a way that one can not see it from a distance (say >3m), but such that it is well-readable from the starting position for the route.

Of course you are right, the grade of the route may evolve with time or the suggestion of the first ascender may be incorrect. However, I regard grades as a fuzzy thing, so this does not matter too much. If something has a '7a' written at the base, then I know that I can have an onsight shot and can later have my own opinion about the grade. If that information is lacking, it is hard to know whether that route is suitable for warm-up, for an onsight shot or even too hard.

In reply to carl dawson:

Hi Carl,

I've just relinquished the moderation of Secret Garden on UKC. Its a great sector but not really my style as I get older and more decrepit. I suspect I won't be going back there very often. It would be good if a local devotee such as yourself took it on as I know there are more routes to add and I'm a bit unclear as to their relative positions.

Dave

In reply to carl dawson: IRC, Grande Grotta (and quite a number of other tufa-y venues) also have grades painted on the rock. Some, like Ivi, have subsequently been re-graded, but I don't see it as a major issue.

Cheers Dave, You do yourself an injustice! However, I’ll get in touch with the boys at UKC and see if it’s OK for me to update Secret Garden.

Hi there, Celinski. I beg to differ from your opinion on this one. The less writing on the rock, the better, as far as I’m concerned (ie I DO think ANY writing on the rock is an issue).

In the case of relatively featureless limestone crags, there is a reasonable case for discreet ‘naming’. However, if you’ve bolted a crag and want people to know the grades, why not put a topo on-line rather than painting on grades? And if you’re a visitor to the crag, search for the info on-line or ask a local.

If you really can’t resist leaving the grade info at the crag, consider other options: if you’re the crag equipper why not write down the grades on paper and leave them in a tin box? Alternatively, write the grade on a flat stone and prop it against the base of the route? I think we should be promoting best practice here, not dismissing it as a ‘minor issue’.

In reply to carl dawson:

Can be done discreetly like this:

http://www.randomania.fr/wp-content/uploads/2007/11/img_5592r.JPG

which might be better.

In reply to Morgan Woods:

Yes, I like this too. Claude Idoux has done a similarly neat job here in Kaly on many of his routes (although some have been removed? stolen?… can you believe it?). Good practice though; yes.

In reply to carl dawson:

Hi Carl.

I generally concur on the idea of "the less impact, the better it is". However, I don't think that discretely writing name and grade at the base of a route is a significant impact over the bolts which are placed and the cleaning that is done, the trails that lead to the crag, et cetera.

In Switzerland where I live, most newly equipped crags are no longer published and kept somewhat secret. This is for a number of reasons, usually to keep people away to a certain extent and to avoid any hassles with environmentalists and public authorities. However, I still want to provide visitors with names and grades of the routes. The idea with the tin box is nice, but only works until the first guy thinks it would be a good idea to sneak the topo before the next person takes it away (speaking from personal experience here).

In reply to carl dawson:
I come from a land where the names of routes are frequently painted.
While I did it by myself, I tell you some facts:
a) some beggars copy names of routes and do guidebooks for profit on somebody's else work. The world is full of these beggars. Cheap bastards we call them.
b) in case you need to close down a cliff for issues of access, it's something more to do, rather than only unscrew the bolts.
c) grades changes.
d) access issues suggest that names can be a problem. Why create potential problems for nothing?
e) I am sure that if I come to Stanage Plantation and I paid Ulysses with blue paint, I can be stoned on spot.

I discourage the practice to paint names (and grades) Anywhere

Ciao,
Emanuele