UKC

I've detected a nasty-sounding click in my front hub. I've got the necessary kit to disassemble the hub, and a set of replacement ball bearings, and I plan to have a look at it this evening.

From the noise it's making, though, I fear that the bearing surfaces might be damaged. If that's the case then I'll probably be looking at replacing the hub. I popped into an LBS this morning and they quoted me £25 to rebuild a front wheel, plus parts. I'm just wondering whether doing the work myself would be a realistic prospect. The main considerations would be how much time I'd need to spend on it, and what other tools I might need (primarily a truing stand, I think).

The idea appeals to the side of me that likes to tinker & fettle stuff, but the side of me that would prefer to go riding (and climbing, and other leisure time activities) isn't so keen. And if the cost including tools ended up being significantly more than the LBS quote then that would make it more difficult to justify. (I know tools are an investment, but I don't really expect to be doing this very often.)

Anyone have any thoughts or opinions to offer?

In reply to Martin W:

I've tried replacing a spoke and I just ended up with more popping. I think it's more of an art than most other bike maintenance. You can do most other things following a set of instructions, but you seem to need a very good "feel" to build or repair wheels.

I'd pay to have it done I think, certainly if it's only £25.

Neil

In reply to Martin W:

Its probably worth stripping the hub and regreasing, checking etc as it may be something simple, but if you need to rebuild I think £25 is well worth it.
Spokes and truing are a nightmare

In reply to Martin W:

Tools dont cost that much since you can work without a truing stand. How quickly you pick it up seems to vary massively.
Personally though I find it fiddly and a pain in the arse. If you regularly ride hard and hence need to true wheels a lot then it might be worth learning but outside of that chances are you will be spending quite a lot of time learning and retrying. Especially if you dont have someone who can offer advice face to face.
I would punt anything like that to the LBS assuming they have a decent reputation.

In reply to dissonance:

just make sure they're round. Really round:

But Mr Brailsford said: “I told them we had some special wheels because we had made them specially round. The French seemed to have taken it seriously, but I was joking. They are the same wheels as everyone else. There is nothing special about them.

In reply to Martin W:

£25 isnt bad considering the amount of time it takes to do. If you can get the same hub to replace it then you can reuse the same spokes to save money.

Ive rebuilt a front and rear wheel, the front is generally quite easy but it does take a lot of time to do if you are not experienced.

In reply to Martin W:

Truing a wheel and building one are significantly different tasks. You can do the former with the wheel on the bike and the only tools you need are a spoke key and something to be able to hold to the rim to indicate where the wobble is - a pencil and a bit of blue-tac to hold the pencil to the bike frame is enough. A useful skill to have when you are out on the road/trail.

Building a wheel from scratch, you really do need a truing stand (£80 upwards for something decent). Building a wheel is actually quite formulaic: lace the hub with those spokes leading inwards towards the centre of hub; attach rim to spokes; lace hub with spokes leading outwards and attach these to rim; loosely tighten all spokes to the same point (you can make your own screwdriver with a profiled head to do this). From this point it's a matter of being methodical and going round the wheel slowly tightening each spoke in turn, you only do half a turn of the spoke key each time, this way the rim stays true so hopefully you are never having to correct things. Eventually you get to a point where you only need to turn the spoke key by a quarter turn each time, by this time you are nearly done and the remainder is making sure that the wheel is true using the guides on the truing stand.

Obviously the above is a vast simplification but it is very much like following a recipe. I took about 2 evenings to do my first wheel so look on it as learning experience, it's also quite (very) satisfying. There's a PDF you can buy that guides you through the whole process, it costs about £5 or so.

In reply to Martin W:

Everything you wanted to know about building bicycle wheels... and a huge amount that you didn't:

http://poehali.net/attach/Bicycle_Wheel_-_Jobst_Brandt.pdf

In reply to Martin W:
A few years ago when I was off work ill for a few weeks, I decided to learn to build wheels to give me something to do. I'm not particularly mechanically skilled but like you I enjoy tinkering and that sort of thing appeals to me.

For sure, it is achievable for the novice - though you will probably make quite a few mistakes the first time round - I had a tendency to over-tighten spokes and ended up rounding off quite a few nipples, and had to cut a few spokes out with bolt cutters to undo this so make sure you have some spares. It is a bit fiddly and there is a lot of fine tuning involved so it needs a lot of patience - I would set aside the best part of a weekend for the first time, though I reckon I could now build one in a couple of hours.

After a couple of goes and a lot of fine tuning I ended up with a pretty good result - the wheels which have run true ever since.
It is not particularly cost effective as spokes, nipples etc. are quite expensive when you buy them retail. Aside from tools, it would cost you quite a lot more than £25 in spokes and nipples I should think. But it is satisfying to ride on something you have built yourself. And truing wheels is a nice skill to have - The other day I got a (different) back wheel kicked out of true by a dozy motorist and it was nice to be able to quickly fix it myself.

Basically if I were you I would only bother if it were something that you would genuinely enjoy doing for the sake of doing it, say if you are in need of a hobby. Otherwise it would be quicker and cheaper and a lot less hassle to get it done at the LBS.

In reply to Martin W:
I've always quite fancied trying this too but have come to the realisation that I'd just make time consuming mess of it and then have to take it to be fixed anyway
Also do you have access to a wheel truing stand, a tensiometer, a dishing tool? Starting from scratch you'd want a better guide to progress than the motion of the rim through the brake blocks which does for a few spoke adjustments?
£25 ...bargain.

In reply to Bob:

I built one pair of wheels & they've been fine, as tough as any I've bought & have stayed true. I think it was worthwhile to have a better understanding of wheels, but it took a very long time & ever since I've been happy to pay.

In reply to Doug:

It's probably only worth it if you want a particular hub and rim combination that you can't buy off the shelf. It is very satisfying though along with the realisation that it isn't quite the dark art that it's often made out to be. Of course getting really good at it takes time and you'd have to be going through a lot of wheels or making them up for friends to get that kind of experience. Cost wise, as Quiddity says, you are paying a lot for the materials - £1 per spoke & nipple is about standard ATM.

In reply to Martin W:

In your position, if the hub is damaged and needed replacing, I'd get the new hub, lace it to the rim*, generally tension it and then drop it in to LBS for final adjusting.

* Replace any spokes that are damaged/corroded nipples. You may need different length spokes for a different hub - there are charts online to tell you what you need for nearly all hub/rim combinations.

Thanks all for your advice and suggestions. I've done a bit of gentle wheel truing in the past but, although I would like to be able to do it, it does sound like wheel building is one of those things I will probably never have time to do properly.

I'll try to take a look at the bearings this evening and take a view as to whether I need to enlist the help of the LBS in getting my ride spinning along smoothly again.

In reply to Martin W:

Another useful source: http://sheldonbrown.com/wheelbuild.html

A mate did one first attempt in an evening, really not that difficult. Give it a go and if it goes wrong drop all the bits into the LBS.

In reply to Martin W:

As it happens there's a thread on singletrackworld about messing up a wheel build! It has a link to this article http://www.wheelfanatyk.com/blog/wheelbuilding-tip-15-spin-those-nipples/ which shows the screwdriver/nippledriver that I mentioned above.

Well, I've disassembled and degreased the hub, and the bearing on the left hand side is showing a fair bit of corrosion. Looks like the bearing seal wasn't doing its job very well. So that means a new hub, then.

Picking up on LastBoyScout's idea, if I can source a hub which is the same spoke hole circle diameter and distance between the flanges (which I think I can, at a tempting price) and the existing spokes are all in good nick (which I think they are), it should be possible to rebuild the wheel with no other new components bar a new rim tape, I think. And then if I bollox it up, off to the LBS.

OTOH if the LBS is happy for me to source the hub then £25 sounds OK to get the wheel back on the road quicker.

Hmmm...

In reply to Martin W:


Can't you pull the bearing and replace it, keep the hub? Bearings are pretty well standardised aren't they?

jk

In reply to jkarran:



If it's cup and cone and the cups are corroded that might be a problem, some can be replaced and some can't.

In reply to Martin W:
I've built a wheel, you can do it with a spoke key, a bike frame and nothing else. Thread the nipples onto the spokes to a set point (e.g. to the end of the threads) then wind on a turn or two per spoke and keep going round till the tension comes up. Then you have to true it. But there are a Million online tutorials to follow which are better than my advice. I wouldn't do it again as:
1) It takes ages when you are not used to it
2) I don't think I built a particularly good wheel
3) It made my back ache sitting over an upside down bike
4) In the context of how long it took me I think £25 is cheap to get somebody to do it for you (somebody sitting in front of a truing stand with good ergonomics and probably paid for their time).

To avoid the problem happening again go with a shimano hub, typically cheap and they seal them properly, plus the flanges are wide enough to prevent problems with knacking the J-bend in the spoke. Claris is bottom of the range and supposedly good and rugged. Having said that the Miche and Easton ones I have had have all been good too.

Cup and cone bearings are particularly tolerant of being miss aligned, rusty etc. Cheapest option is to get some very high grit wet and dry and clean up the rust with that.

I am not aware of people replacing the bearing cup/cone but it might be possible, I'm sure its an interference press fit since the hub body is typically aluminum.

What is the rim wear like? You might be wasting money if its worn but I guess the LBS will advise on that. Also you may need new spokes if you change the hub unless you replace like-for-like.

Finally have you considered just buying a new wheel? You can get a full shimano wheelset for about £80.

In reply to Sir Chasm:
The cup is definitely corroded. It might be replaceable but the bearing seal on that side seems dodgy anyway, so a replacement cup & cone would likely fail again fairly quickly. I'd effectively be fixing something which it would be more sensible to bin.

The existing hub is a no-name Shimano 'clone' which came with the bike. Most of the rest of the groupset is Tiagra, apart from the Deore rear mech; presumably the hubs was where they chose to cut the cost. The fact that the existing hub has the same key dimensions (spoke hole circle diameter and distance between the flanges) as the realistically-priced Shimano ones means that I should be able to put a reasonably nice Shimano hub in there, eg the 105, without having to get all new spokes.

The rim is definitely good enough to keep, and has plenty of life left in the braking surfaces. I've not yet managed to find a pre-built wheel at a reasonable price which would match what I could end up with by rebuilding the current one.

In reply to Martin W:

There's usually a tiny hole in the rim opposite the valve hole that's a wear indicator - it's about the size of a pin so can be hard to spot.

Wheels are often the first thing that manufacturers look at when cutting costs - they reason that many cyclists will almost certainly upgrade the wheels.

In reply to Martin W:
as had been said above most people who have a go seem to say its worth having somebody stand over you when have your first go. Its one of those things I would really like to be able to do just for the sake of it, google throws up several courses , for example:
http://www.bicycles-by-design.co.uk/services/wheel-building-courses
anybody on here done one ? (£75 for this seems reasonable to me)
On a tangential note I had some old school mtb wheels hand built by steels in newcastle that are over 20 years old, a bit heavy but despite having done lots of mtb and a few longish tours, have never gone out of true. Later this year I m going to build my old tank sacarcen back up using them.

In reply to Martin W:

I used to build my own wheels, front and back. In my experience , once learned it can take the best part of a day, especially the rear wheel, including putting the bike together again. I have the truing stand and some spokes (may fit?)if you want them and are happy to pay the postage.

£25 quid is dead cheap. If you build from new make sure you get right sized spokes, a decent rim,decent hub, rim tape, cork bits, decent spoke key etc etc. and have a lot of patience and time to learn and do.

OK, so the upshot is…

After further conversations with various LBSes, the conclusion was that a rebuild of my current wheel with a new hub would cost about the same as a new wheel of equivalent/slightly better quality. Also, the rebuild would take a week to ten days, including lead time for sourcing the hub (no-one round here seems to keep hubs in stock).

As I was seriously missing my ride, I opted to buy a new wheel - and had a very pleasant ride yesterday evening as a result.

I plan also to buy a new hub and try rebuilding the old wheel myself, taking my time about it. I was surprised to find that a 105 hub can be had for fairly sensible money online, and I reckon I can re-use the original spokes (which I believe should be the right length). Even if I do need to buy new spokes I should still end up with a rather higher spec wheel (the original rim is much better quality than the original hub) and an interesting learning experience. And if it all goes t*ts up, I can still pay the LBS to make it right. Then I'll have two front wheels which I can swap in and out as the rims wear out. I think that sounds like a plan.

On the down side, having seen how cheap'n'nasty the original front hub was, I am now thinking about the rear wheel, and maybe also the no-name BB. But I'll probably just wait for them to wear out/break before I decide to actually do anything to them. One thing at a time.

Thanks to everyone who offered help and advice, it has been much appreciated.

In reply to Martin W:

Like several comments above - it's a satisfying feeling building a wheel, you feel like you've accomplished something.

Would seem about right regarding your original hubs.

Bottom brackets are generally a full replacement job (Hope BBs are user serviceable), you just need the right tools for the particular type your bike has. My road bike has a Hollowtech 2 BB - I can take it out, clean it, regrease it and put it back in ten to fifteen minutes. The only specialised tool needed is basically a big fancy spanner, about £15.

In reply to Martin W:

There is nothing magical or difficult about building a wheel. Very simply, lacing the spokes is just procedural, it's then a case of tensioning evenly so there are no major errors to try and correct.

The only tools that are essential are a spoke key and a nipple-driver, although you can get away with the latter. A stand, dishing gauge etc are a bonus and can make life a bit easier but do not guarantee a well-built wheel.

Truing a wheel is fine but you should ask yourself why it is out-of-true? As with many things, knowing how to do something is different from understanding.

As it is a non-disc front wheel that needs attention, then it would be worth giving it a go yourself as it is symmetrical so you won't have to worry about different spoke tensions and length on each side. If you do have a go at rebuilding, I'd recommend disassembling the wheel (unscrew the old spokes, don't cut them if they are under any tension), calculate the correct spoke length (the existing ones could be incorrect), buy some new spokes and nipples and give it a go. The one thing I would say is essential to buy is the Wheelpro book(actually a PDF) by Roger Musson, it is about £9 or £10 (buy it from his site and you download it and can print it). This will explain all about wheels and how to build them in easy-to-understand, logical terms - most importantly, it will dispel loads of myths about wheelbuilding, some of it is quite eye-opening. Usual disclaimer: I have no connection with Roger Musson etc...

Let us know how you get on.

In reply to Martin W:

Greasing the edge of the rubber seal where it stops moisture getting into the bearings is a helpful thing to do.

In reply to Martin W:

If enough is applied it creates a barrier.

At the risk of teaching you to suck eggs, bear in mind it might collect dirt too, depending on how much is applied.

In reply to Martin W:

I've never had the dirt problem though. ()