UKC

Planning a trip to Italy/Switzerland with the North ridge of the Piz Badille as one of the objectives.

Trying to to sort out some of the logistics and was hoping for some advice.

We're planning to park our car on the Italian side maybe in Colico Piano and catch public transport to the start (Descending the South side back into Italy) Anyone done it this way? Any recommendation for buses?

Snow wise; anyone been up there recently? If possible we'd like to avoid carrying crampons and axes to keep it light but if we have to that's fine.

Considering staying the night in the shelter on the summit so we can have to whole next day to leisurely descend and not get worried about getting caught in traffic or making it back in daylight. Is this a reasonable tactic or just taking advantage of an emergency facility (I noticed in the photos they have blankets in there, do you need to take a sleeping bag with you?)


Thanks

In reply to conrad_o:

Hi, I have climbed the Badile and descended the South side, but we had two cars, so it wasn't too difficult to drive round and leave one in Italy. There were plenty of parking spaces I believe. I am not sure about buses, not even sure if there are any.

I was under the impression that staying in the bivi hut is a bit frowned upon unless its an emergency.

In reply to conrad_o:

I got trains and buses round from Swiss to Italy so it's possible the deutch railway timetable thing may well cover the route

you could alternatively walk back it's supposed to be long but scenic the huts on the Italian side are lovely if you have the cash your likely to get very thirsty in the bivvy hut. ..

In reply to conrad_o:

Abseil down the route you have climbed.

You can then travel very light and will know the way having just climbed it.

Leave bivi gear or stay at the hut. You may even have spare energy or the weather to climb another route the next day whilst you are up there.

The North Ridge descent has a reputation, but only with those who are perhaps not up to the task.

In reply to Rick Graham:

+1

Cheers
Mark

In reply to Mark Westerman:

Have climbed the N Ridge and the Cassin but on both occasions descended the Italian side and then walked back the following day. Perhaps the problems in abbing down the N Ridge might be a combination of popularity and the fact that it is very low angled, always a pain when throwing ropes down. From memory many sections could be easily and possibly more rapidly covered by simul climbing down, especially the more broken sections. When we did the N Ridge, Rouse or Minks soloed the Cassin in a couple of hours then sprinted down the ridge, passing us less than halfway up laboriously pitching it in big heavy mountain boots and rucsacs!

In reply to conrad_o:

When I did the Cassin, we had car on the Italian side, but there's a hut on the Italian side and from there you can walk back the following day over a couple of passes. I forget its name.

I believe the problem with trying to rap the north ridge is that it's not very steep in places and the rope tends to get stuck. Chances are that there will be a cast of thousands following you up it too.

Another option is to rap down Another day in paradise which is steeper, but it's not at the top of the ridge and trying to find the right anchors if you haven't been up the route might be tricky

In reply to conrad_o:

Cheers for the replies.

We're your classic British bred climbers: Decent on trad gear but end up unnecessarily pitching easy ground and don't do many long multi-pitch abseils. Call me a wuss but I think the North Ridge after a long day with the possibility of light fading isn't the place to practice our abseil slickness.

Any advice on winter gear would be great. When you guys did it was there enough snow on the approach from Saas Fura or the Italian side descent to warrant crampons and axes? My mate hopes he can get away with approach shoes; following old steps if there's patches of snow, but I want to be sure before I ditch the ironware. Haven't decided if we're going to walk back the long way but I'm assuming we'd need the gear to get over the cols.

Ta.

In reply to conrad_o:

Climbed the N Ridge from the Sasc Fura Hut a few years ago - seven & a half hours up, eight & a half down.
Also climbed the Molteni on the S side a couple of years ago - about three hours back to the Gianetti hut.
Given the choice I would not descend the N Ridge again. It is not a nightmare but it is a PITA. Up & over in a day is very practicable for the average bumbly (being one myself) & much more pleasant. Haven't done the return walk over the Trubinasca Pass, some say tough others manage another route on the way over ....
Stay in both huts
Damian

In reply to conrad_o:



Good article on the ridge here.

www.ukclimbing.com/articles/page.php?id=4416

You will note that Bruce has the climbing time for a competent party as 5 hours.
I would politely suggest that if you expect to spent over 7 hours climbing it you should be on an easier or shorter route.
Descending the Italian side is only a practical option if you have a car both ends. Alpine weather is notoriously unpredictable. Any complicated and inflexible plans will invariably end in tears.
As alpine descents go, the North ridge is pretty straight forward, good fixed ab points and easy down climbing. With any ridge descent never commit to being unable to regain the crest, and try not to be there in a thunderstorm.

In reply to Rick Graham:

5 hours is very quick, bordering on bullsh*t, especially if there are loads of other parties on the route. You can do it slower than that, and still go down the North Ridge, or what ever way you choose.

In reply to Rick Graham:

You omitted to say Bruce Goodlad also says the guide book time is 5-7 hours, and also recommends NOT abseiling back down the ridge !

In reply to Jim Hamilton:


Pasted from the article:

" Length: 700m. The guide book time is 5-7hrs, it should take a competent party 5.

Descent: You can abseil back down the route but this is incredibly awkward as the terrain isn't steep enough to abseil easily. Your rope gets caught continuously and it will take about as long to go down as it did to go up. Trust me I have done it twice! It is far better to descend the south Face to the Gianetti hut then walk back round to the Saas Fura hut the next day. "



In 1991, after doing the Cassin, we descended from the summit in less than 4 hours, no tangles or drama. It is now bolted up so should be even easier especially after just climbing it and knowing any routefinding tips.
No need to carry bivi gear , extra food or ice gear. Only one day weather window required.

Looking at the article again I noticed Bruce suggests only one 50m rope.
Committed to the traverse with no way of descending the ridge if necessary.
Not very well thought out

In reply to conrad_o:

When we descended the N. ridge a few years ago we were beaten to the hut by teams who had descended the Italian side and walked back the same day....

In reply to conrad_o:

On the winter gear question, we climbed the cassin in in early august and had no need for any winter gear, walking in approach shoes.

Would also recommend 60m ropes (8mm to save weight) as they always provide more options in long route situations in my experience.

In reply to conrad_o:
I climbed the North Ridge 2 years ago. We were camping in San Martino and used public transport to get round to Bondo to walk in. The people in Bar Monica are very helpful and will write down the public transport connections if you ask. It wasn't too much of a headache. We left late morning and were in a bivi at the foot of the ridge that evening.

We carried our bivi gear up and over with us and descended on foot back down the other side. It was a bloody long walk on an empty stomach, though I'm not known for my fitness or ability to walk without moaning. Take some money for diner in the hut on the other side.

We took 60m double 8.5's. One of which stayed in my bag the whole way bar for a couple of ab's off the back. A skinny 60m single would have been better. Rack wise we took 5 nuts, 4 cams no bigger than camalot size 1 and about 8 sling draws.

The route took us around 5 hours I think, we started early and moved together the whole way bar for about 3 short pitches. Due to the early we were about the 2nd or 3rd team to summit, having not being held up by others. It's a super popular route so start early to get ahead of the chaos. I'm not the fittest or most talented of climbers and do about one big route a year. The trick is to just keep moving at a modest pace without stopping.

We didn't take any winter gear, there was some snow on the back of the mountain but we felt happy kicking steps for the short area it covered.

Route finding is quite straight forward, I think the only bit to watch for is where you turn onto the right side of the ridge for a bolted pitch before coming back onto the crest. We had no topo but were directed by some folk coming down having spent a night on the ridge. I also think we went off route on the descent and followed somebody else's epic so check out the descent too.

Hope that helps, it was one of my best days out, you'll have a blast!

Sam

In reply to conrad_o:

My recommendation: descend to the Gianetti hut, then walk back over the two passes Porcellizzo and Trubinasca the following day. At this time of the year, no alpine equipment is necessary for that, it can be done in approach shoes. The walk to Sasc Furä takes 3-4h, gives another perspective on Badile (especially its faboulous NW face) and is pretty nice. The worst part is the descent on the north side of Passo Porcellizzo, but don't let that put you off. If you want, there are also rock routes that end in the vicinity of Passo Porcellizzo, so you can combine the walk with some climbing. For me personally, that is by very far the better option then to abseil the N ridge, or to descend to the valley and spend money and time for traveling back by public transport.

See here for my trip report (of the Cassin) with descent to the south side, the climbs in the vicinity of the Gianetti hut and on Passo Porcellizzo, as well as the way back:

http://stat.ethz.ch/~dettling/badile.html

In reply to Rick Graham:

how quickly does the Cassin dry out after rain Rick?

In reply to Exile:

Probably in a few hours in summer. Especially if an afternoon thunderstorm has a dry evening and night to drain off.

The exit chimneys would be a nightmare if verglassed. So above comments do not take into account if it freezes up.

All this is just a good guess. I did the route in September 91 after a good period of weather and enjoyed warm dry rock throughout.

The normal approach nowadays(from the notch to traverse in the face ) would also be tricky/dangerous after a storm if verglassed. Its a rounded unprotectable wide ledge with occasional perhaps frozen runnels of water/ice to step over. Take care especially in the dark.

In reply to conrad_o:

Did the North Ridge two days ago. I would recommend Boots and an axe for the approach as there are still two largeish snowfields to cross, and you will be much faster with them. We only had approach shoes and it was abit of a nightmare, especially on the way back down as we abbed back down the ridge.

Hope that helps, good luck its an amazing route!

In reply to conrad_o:

Thanks for the advice everyone. Flying off tomorrow. Going to leave the axe and crampons behind but taking some decent boots.

Here's hoping for good weather.

In reply to conrad_o:

Hi Conrad

Hope you have a great trip. Im heading out in 2 weeks to do the Piz Badile, any chance you can drop me a line when youre back. Looking at doing similar to you. Bivvying on summit then abbing down NE Ridge. Any info on snow, bivvy hut on summit and your descent would be appreciated.

Cheers

mike.

In reply to conrad_o:

Can't comment on the Italian descent, but:

I soloed it and then abseiled back down last summer. It was 5 hours of climbing and then 5 hours of mainly abbing back down. The final few pitches you need to back climb but after that it's a fairly straightforward but very lengthy abseil (Several of the abbs are 40+ metres so either accept the odd bit of down climbing (like me) or bring twin/half ropes).
Everything depends on the weather. If it is good then you wouldn't have any problem abseiling in the dark if you had a good headtorch, if it crapped out in the late afternoon, it would be a nightmare.

Try to avoid standing in, or dragging the ropes through, the human excriment that decorates it in various places.

In reply to conrad_o:

Just in case it all sounds too breezy:
http://www.climbing.ie/index.php/articles-mainmenu-36/33-articles/45-piz-ba...

In reply to conrad_o:

Bit of a follow up for the benefit of anyone who comes across this thread in the future.

Unfortunately it rained pretty much the whole time we were there so we didn't do the North Ridge. We did do the Normal(Descent)route and had look at the Porcellizzo Pass. Also talked to a bunch of people including two BMG guides who had recently done the route.

So as a mid grade climber (who hasn't actually done the route) these are the things I'll keep in mind if I go back.

-Crampons are a good idea: The approach snow field can be done in approach shoes as someone mentioned before but if you want to do it fast and safe crampons are the way to go. The descent snowfield is at an easy angle. The Porcellizzo pass at the moment is covered in steep snow on both sides; if you want to return via this route take crampons.

-Take a 60m rope: Most of the abseils on the South side descent are about 30m. Sure, you can down climb the whole thing and there's tat all over the place but a 60 makes things easy. One of the guides had a 45m rope and said it was a pain.

-The top quarter or so of the North Ridge doesn't have bolted belays. This isn't really mentioned anywhere. It's not a problem in itself but one party we talked to said it's a bit disconcerting when the belays disappear and you wonder if you're still on route.

-It is possible to return via public transport. A bus leaves right from the trail head on the Italian side but you have to link together about 4 or five buses and trains and it will take all day. A Taxi will cost around 120-160 euros. Lots of people are more prepared than you and have parked a second car on the Italian side; make friends at the hut and get a lift.

-The Plaisir guides have the best topos. If you're too cheap to buy the books Needle sport have the North Ridge scanned as an example page.

Feel free to PM me if anyone wants info on the current conditions or details about the descent. Just a pity about the way up.... always next year.

In reply to conrad_o:

The last couple of hundred meters doesn't have bolted belays but it's a straight forward ridge scramble.

We came back down the way we came up and half ropes were handy here for having enough length to ab between the brass ring bolts.

In reply to conrad_o:

Slightly pessimistic view of Italian public transport in my experience. Pretty sure it was a leisurely start, bus, train, bus and we were back in Vico campsite mid afternoon ... and that included running back up to the top car park at Bondo to retrieve car. Also think that was a Sunday.

I'd say it's a good option if the return over the passes isn't practical.