/ petzl nomic. build quality?
Same here, pommels wobble but not a problem, heads squeak and move but nothing can be done. I thought it was loose squeaky picks to start with but then realised it was the heads.
Suggest buying new Grivels if you can afford it.
I know several people that have had this happen to the head of their nomics, including myself (there's a crack in the shaft of one as well) - The distributor's recommendation was to retire them immediately, unfortunately no other support was offered.
It's a shame because they're good axes, but that's no use when they only last a season before starting to fall apart.
CNC'd (ie solid, one piece, only really Grivel & E-climb atm) axes seem to be better with regards to durability whilst remaining light.
p.s. I haven't used the e-climb axes, but the Grivel ones can take a battering.
The pommel fell off mine on a route. Because the bit inside comes out too, the axe had to be sent back to France for repair and it took 3 months (didn't matter, summer). No more problems; I test the tightness each day before I go out. But I do think their next model need a design update.
I don't like mine on ice, and use something else. But they are good on rocky mixed. I'm not a huge fan in general though.
I'm sure you'd get much more joy looking at the Sales of Goods Act and may be enlightening the distributor as well.
if petzl sell you an ice climbing tool and you insist on smashing it of rocks repeatedly, the sale of goods act ain't going to help you much...
Out of interest, why would you smash it off a rock?
Ive spoke to a number of people too Adam who have had the same issue. Seems crazy to retire them. However I can't imagine trusting them on an ice route now at the fear of the head falling off. Scary thought. I noticed dmm put 2 rivets in. Good idea. Love the feel and shape of nomics over the other, more radical, grivel e climb axes. Oh well.
I'm the Same Andy. Love them on mixed routes. Would prefer not too send them away for 3 weeks but that's why I'm posting this now to hopefully sort before the winter. I guess if I can't repair them. It's time to retire them and buy some different ones. Crazy thought.
It wouldn't apply anyway as I put an extra rivet in last winter when I noticed it. Didn't want to be without them mid winter. I think the smashino against rocks Could be compared to smashing pegs in. Mine have the petzl hammers on. Something that they have designed and sell for the axes. My fusions and old dmm have stood up to the test of time and abuse. Seems a shame the modern kit is not built to last these days.
When I reviewed the DMM Switches last winter I said they were a bit on the hefty side. http://www.ukclimbing.com/gear/review.php?id=6189 DMM wanted some comeback on that which is fair enough so their comment was added into the review
"The underlying requirement was to make a set of tools that offer exceptional performance and are built to withstand the rigours of modern climbing by being ‘bombproof’ - sturdy, strong and dependable.
DMM have engineered the light, balanced, and supremely strong ‘T Rated Integrity Construction’ method using high quality materials, full strength, T Rated components throughout and bonded, double riveted component interfaces. We have encased the CNC'd handles with a highly insulated, durable, grippy, fully integrated moulding."
Which seems fair enough - I think they are honestly just saying if you want a tool that is nearly indestructible, it's gonna weigh more! Wobbly bits on Nomics seem to suggest this might be the truth.
I've got the Grivel Master and the Eclimb, I thoroughly recommend the Grivel. The heads on my Nomics came loose through doing a lot of dry tooling, no smashing into rocks there. Just repeatedly weighting and testing placements. It happened quite quickly as well, half a season. If you do get the Grivel make sure you get the up to date version with the machined spike/attachment point at the bottom as the handles are different and you have more pick options as well.
There is also a new pick for the Fusion which makes it a better tool for ice, haven't used it but if it does then that might be the new best option.
Ah wrong time to put mine up for sale then :(
I've the masters and forces, both the older style handle without the extended spike. Only issue I've had with my forces are that the threads in the tool spun out so I just put longer bolts and lock nut on. Love the simplicity of the one piece tool means no nomic issues.
I have the old style Master Alloy and had to trim the grips down with a file which is done on the new model. Also the new model can take a 4 mm pick whereas the old one can only take 3mm. I just think if you have a choice get the new one.
I agree. I got both mine before the newer version came out. How do you find the handle now you've filed it down.
It's a massive improvement. The old handle would dig into every finger, especially on the upper handle. I just wish there was a way of getting rid of the index finger rest/third grip without damaging the shaft. I also opened up the pinky rest on the second handle which makes it more comfortable again like this photo;
Cool. Good idea. A mate has some of them and has put the krukonogi master picks in his which are basically armour steel force picks skimmed down at the head to fit the old style masters
The only thing i wouldn't do again is cut the upper hand rest (3rd) so short, should have left it a bit longer. I've heard about the Kruk pick and was thinking about them or getting the slot done by a machinist somewhere. I heard the Kruk picks were a bit sucky on ice?
ah yes if you take things into your own hands!
I'm playing devils advocate a bit sale of goods act is specific about goods being able to do what's advertised rather than. what a user thinks is reasonable.
petzl can respond or lose some of the UK market it'll be interesting to see where they go. frankly it's a pretty small market
I would say this is now a known problem, it would be interesting to hear from one of the centres on how their Quarks are holding up as they appear to have the same construction. I should imagine its not very well.
I don't get this statement, last thing you do is smash your pick into rocks, far more likely to happen when climbing ice and you come across a thin bit.
I used the original Quarks most weekends, on average Dec to April, from 2001 to 2009. Mainly ice climbing but we climbed a lot of thin ice so the tools did hit rock regularly. The heads are still bomber, there's a little bit of play in one of the spikes/pinky rest areas, but its not a big problem. I've used them a number of times on occasional visits to the UK after I retired them from being my normal tools used at home in Finland.
I don't know about you but climbing cairngorm mixed where your flailing around in blind cracks hunting turf seems to eat picks. And torquing tools would seem to put colossal force through the heads
On cursory inspection the old quarks seem significantly beefier than the new ones. A friend sent his back to lion after about a season with wobbles not sure of the outcome.
I would say same name different axe Toby.
Well, that's true of any remodel isn't it? But I wasn't sure how old the tools alasdair19 was referring to were.
I wonder how many tools do actually break? I think it was Ian Parnell who wrote about snapping the shaft of one of his Fusions a few years ago; I know people who have broken Cobras; and back in the day a number of people broke the alloy heads of Vertiges. I saw a mate shear the head bolts on his Piranhas and the Camp tools of that era were famous for undoing themselves on routes. Perhaps Nomics are worse than all of those, but it might just be that more people are climbing harder mixed and really wellying on them in thin cracks and the like?
It seems different countries break their tools in different ways; I started a thread on here years ago about snapping picks. It seemed to be happening to North American climbers all the time (partic. BD picks) but I didn't know anyone in years of climbing (Scotland - warmish but twisty torquing; or Finland, cold but mainly straight on ice) who had done it and we found few anecdotes of people who had or had mates who had discussing it here. I wonder if wobbly Nomic heads is a UK thing from torquing? Lots of Euro mixed seems more hooking based - at least on limestone.
They're certainly not the best on ice at all to be fair. I've spoken to them about making an ice specific pick out of armour steel for the masters, so if you're interested I'll keep you informed.
Please, I find I can mixed climb with an ice pick easier than I can ice climb with a mixed pick.
I suggest it happens to Nomics everywhere. I would be interested to hear how all the new Quarks are fairing as I'm sure they receive a good amount of use at the centres. I also note that the New Nomics have a different head to the old Nomics, I wonder if the bit in the shaft we can't see has changed as well?
Right then repair done. Let's see how well it works. Drilled a 5mm hole through the letter T next to rivet. Quite tough actually. Then tapped a 6mm thread with a counter sink. Put in an m6 stainless torx bolt with super strength locate glue. Filed it smooth at one side. And hey Presto no more wobbly head. So easy to do and I actually feel more confident. Still. Shouldn't have to do this to an axe that petzl sell for over £200 and states on the website that it is a ice climbing and dry tooling axe. Just my opinion.
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