In reply to Dave Garnett:
> I did wonder yesterday whether this was all a masterful attempt by Mick to provoke a response against something he actually thinks is a real danger that we are ignoring. It all seemed a bit out of character and grumpy.
> Unless it's a different Michael Ryan of course.
Same Mick Ryan, Dave.
You are partly right. I'm far from grumpy, quite merry and bright. Offwidth does need a good lashing and a reality check now and then before he disappears up his own bottom!
But yes, most retrobolting in the UK goes un-noticed. Whole crags get grid-bolted these days, as well as isolated routes.
It's only when someone like Paul starts a thread about a particular route, usually their own, that most take notice.
It would be interesting to make a list of crags and routes across the UK that have been retroe'd - the ignorant would then understand that this is far from an isolated incident (in this particular case done by mistake - but like Neil Foster correctly stated earlier the route is compromised anyway by adjacent bolt routes).
The climbing community is certainly split about the issue. Some reckon the sky is falling, it isn't. Others sit on the fence and some just go and enjoy the routes.
Like I said earlier, I think the main trad routes, the classics and their neighbours are safe. Well I hope so as these routes are our collective climbing heritage and are valued highly.
Places like Stoney West and many other obscure venues that were developed in the 80's or earlier, have very little value to most climbers - except in the memories of those who established the routes - they stand there neglected, dusty and usually loose. Often retrobolts breath new life in to them.
Don't worry Al Evans the main Stoney crag,the routes in its bays are safe and there are many of us who would take action if bolts strayed onto Wee Doris or Padme.
You drive passed the parking at Eyam Delph and there are usually cars there, people enjoying themselves up in the woods at Stoney West - one young women took a right whipper there the other night!
There's nothing wrong with the popularity argument in certain cases, and with some actions.
Climbing and especially climbers are changing; new climbers enter the sport by urban bouldering walls. Climbing is usually just one sport of a multi-sport package that people engage in. You can't stop that, it's happening.
I think the challenge is to educate new climbers about the different types of climbing and the wonderful experiences they all give and at the same time educating them in an entertaining and modern way about our climbing heritage. Climbing can be life changing in a very positive way - but other climbers should stop preaching how others should climb, it's negative and counterproductive.
If new climbers don't experience climbing in all its shades by gentle nudging more crags will stand deserted, the huts will have low occupancy rates, definitive guidebooks will cease to exist, independent climbing shops will die off, and the BMC will morph into a bouldering and climbing competition organisation (Oh wait!!!!!).
Oh my god, the sky is falling. I knew I shouldn't have had that second coffee.
Must crack on, editing and books to publish.
All the best,
Mick
Post edited at 08:10