UKC

Just wondering what people would consider a good workout and a strenuous day in the mountains/hills.. 2000m? 3000m?
Obviously, winter equipment, or a heavy backpack make it harder, so assume summer conditions and a day-pack.

In reply to alps_p:

Are you asking from a "feeling the altitude" perspective or just training?

In reply to Bob_the_Builder:
training.. I'm thinking of doing "some" 7000m peak (most likely Aconcagua, Lenin, etc.). Obviously, 3000m or so above the sea level the lack of oxygen makes it a bit harder, anyway my plan is to train in the UK and European hills by covering lots of ground/altitude gain daily, then hope to be able to do say half those distances with a heavy backpack, at 6000m and with crampons on..

In reply to alps_p:

Hmm probably can't help you much with that. I don't like training. =]

If you're in the UK I reckon you're going to be covering a lot of ground to get 2000m of gain, so the distance is probably more significant?

But the truth is a strenuous day is one where you start early and finish late and feel proper knackered, regardless of what you've done. I do my best to be totally unhelpful.

In reply to alps_p:

As a point of reference, the Bob Graham Round has approximately 8200 metres of ascent and descent. The other two big 24hr rounds(Paddy Buckley Round and Charlie Ramsay Round) have slightly more ascent/descent.

The Wasdale Fell Race has 2750 metres of ascent and the Ennerdale around 2300 metres.

In reply to alps_p:

You desperately need to get as much experience as possible with altitude if you're planning on going high. My body reacts a couple different ways at altitude and I can now tell fairly early how it will go. Though I've only been up to 4200m.

Its a kind of exponential curve with altitude, 100m of gain at 3000m feels like 10m of gain at 4000m (or something) so if you can do 1000m gain at a run at sea level you might still be crawling 1m at a time at 5000m.

Sorry to be so pessimistic. Learning to suffer is the best training you can give yourself at sea level to train for altitude.

On the other hand some days I've had at 4000m I've felt like a f*cking god, with no problems whatsoever. Altitude is weird.

In reply to alps_p:

Also mix distance training with light kit and slogging with heavy kit for best effect (I've done a few day hikes with full backpacking kit, and similar). People will suggest hiking up hills with packs full of water and dump it at the summit. Better to do it when there isn't a drought.

In reply to Bob_the_Builder:

I've been at up to 5500m in the past. I've also climbed quite a bit in the Alps, and generally had no problems at 4000 or 4500m, as long as I followed a proper acclimatisation process. I understand that at 7000m it may well be very different, but the only way to find out now is by, well, attempting to climb at 7000m... So for now I'm planning to focus on just the fitness part of the equation.

In the past I've found 2000m daily altitude gain OK, even with 15-20kg on my back. I've also found that just walking on relatively flat terrain wasn't really doing much for my fitness levels. I've now decided that before departure, I'd like to do at least a day or two of 3000m daily gain to establish my fitness levels..

In reply to alps_p:

Altitude gain in the UK is no use at all in the serious altitude gain stakes. You will get more acclimatization sitting in an airplane which are pressurized at 5000 fasl than you can walking up UK hills. You can get fitter in the UK but you can't do anything about altitude acclimatization.

In reply to alps_p:

Sounds like you've got it sorted then. I think to get the most out of the UK you'd do better to push hard with a heavy pack than get a lot of gain in (because you'll be covering pretty huge distances to get that gain)

In California I've been doing a lot of trips to around 4000m with no acclimatisation because I can get to the Sierras on the weekend. For that a 2000m gain was very strenuous with an overnight pack on (normally starting around 1500m). But we have to carry quite a lot of water here in summer so heavy packs compared to most routes in the Alps.

3000m sounds reasonable and respectable with a slightly lighter pack and proper acclimatisation.

In reply to alps_p:

Actually Alex McIntyre used to say that getting pissed and getting a hangover was the best training for altitude that you could get in the UK.

In reply to Al Evans:

I find going up hill a lot *is* good practice for going up hill. I agree that it is not altitude training/acclimatisation in itself, but it does work the legs, heart and lungs.

In reply to alps_p:

Just get aerobically fit as you can. How you react at 4000m won't tell you how you'll do at 7000m (or 6962m for Aconcagua). You can't really train for altitude other than going to altitude and seeing how you react. I've been above 7000m twice, everyone feels a bit rubbish once you get above 5000m or so. If the acclimatisation programme allows sufficient time you'll adjust feel better and be successful if the underlying mountain fitness is there. Beware of shorter / cheaper options

General maxim if climb high sleep low. So you might climb up 1000m in a day then drop back 500m to sleep etc. of course this isn't always done on the trekking peaks you mention.