/ Biner for shunt

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Stevie989 - on 22 Jul 2014
I am currently using a standard HMS style biner with my shunt when top rope soloing (I think its a synergy)

I am often finding that I am inadvertently cross-loading the biner when my weight comes tight on the rope (falling!).

Any recommendations for one of those belay-safe efforts?

I don't think the force applied would ever be that great but 20m up on yer todd wee things start to get un-nerving!
richparry - on 22 Jul 2014
In reply to Stevie989:

You don't need a fancy karabiner.
If you get a piece of thin cord (shoelace is fine) make a loop long enough to go over your head an down to the shunt. Tie an overhand knot leaving a small loop which you then place over the clip in loop/bar on the shunt.
Then clip the shunt to your harness as normal.
If you have got the length right, the shunt will always be high enough meaning you will not cross load the karabiner. If you do fall off, the shunt is always above your harness waistbelt and you will just sag gently onto the shunt.

Ive been doing it this way since about 1988, have shunted thousands of routes and never ever had a problem.

remus - on 22 Jul 2014
In reply to Stevie989:

A maillon works well, long thin ones help stop it rotating.
Richard Justice - on 22 Jul 2014
In reply to Stevie989:

I'm using a DMM ultra o lock safe. This works well with a bit of elastic as described above
Stevie989 - on 22 Jul 2014
In reply to richparry:

I think I know what you mean - makes pretty good sense!

Its the only issue I've had with the shut (other than not placing my ropes properly at the top and taking a swing)

Thanks
Oo on 22 Jul 2014
In reply to Stevie989:

No personal experience, but this tries to solve the problem, http://dmmclimbing.com/products/rhino/ if you were dead set on a 'fancy' bit of gear.
afshapes - on 23 Jul 2014
In reply to Stevie989:

Mallion works for me
rocky57 - on 23 Jul 2014
In reply to Stevie989:
Point of note.

It is a Karabiner, not a biner. We don't want to propagate the use of this americanism. This is United Kingdom Climbing forum after all, and we are British.

However, if you are an American, then just carry on as if you were normal. ;-)
Post edited at 18:55
jon on 23 Jul 2014
In reply to richparry or indeed anyone else:

Out of interest, when shunting do you double the rope or do you put a single strand in it? Do you use a dynamic or static rope?
Stevie989 - on 23 Jul 2014
In reply to jon:

Double usually and Dynamic. I would imagine a static rope would be a bit uncomfortable.

Rick Graham on 23 Jul 2014
In reply to jon:
If half ropes ideally two, if single rope one usually unless the rock is sharp.

Always use dynamic rope ( not for the obvious reason that I do not own a static)

Surprising how sharp the catch is if you slump very near the belay. Ideally have the belay at least 4 metres above any hard climbing.
> Out of interest, when shunting do you double the rope or do you put a single strand in it? Do you use a dynamic or static rope?
Post edited at 20:52
jon on 23 Jul 2014
In reply to Stevie989:

Well it is uncomfortable but you don't risk hitting the ground on stretch and it seems to slide through the shunt better than a dynamic. That said, I don't like/trust it and find I climb really badly as a consequence, which is why I asked the question.
richparry - on 23 Jul 2014
In reply to jon:

I normally use a single 10mm dynamic rope. Occasionally I might use a pair of half ropes if the pitch is long. If I owned a static rope I'd use that on longer routes.

There's always the possibility that a fall near the bottom of a long pitch will be longer than expected with rope stretch so you need to bear that in mind.
jon on 23 Jul 2014
In reply to Rick Graham:
...and Rich:

Hmmm, I was trying to get a route wired this afternoon. It's got a very hard start and another very hard move just below the belay, so I guess it's not a very good candidate for shunting!
Post edited at 20:56
richparry - on 23 Jul 2014
In reply to jon:

If you abseil down the route first you'll get rid of a lot of stretch (not all) before you start. I'm sure you already know this

Do some easier routes to get your setup sorted and you'll soon pick it up.

So long as you set the shunt up like I mentioned earlier in this thread, you're only ever going to sag (not fall) onto the shunt. It's no worse than if using it for protecting an abseil. If you set it all up and then hang off it before starting, that can help get a bit more stretch out of the system.
jon on 23 Jul 2014
In reply to richparry:

Yes good points. It had taken me ages to stick clip up the route and so when I got back down I needed a rest so sat down and let the rope through the shunt. Mistake. As the intial moves are very hard it was difficult to get rid of the stretch but I managed by pulling on the first bolt but that really messed up the first move. Another problem is that there's a steel cable/handrail that runs along under the route and any stretch in the rope means that your legs are going to get caught behind it. As I said, not the best choice of route... Maybe a static would have been better for this route?
Rick Graham on 23 Jul 2014
In reply to jon:
> Hmmm, I was trying to get a route wired this afternoon. It's got a very hard start and another very hard move just below the belay, so I guess it's not a very good candidate for shunting!

Just sort the rope so you have some stretch but not too much.

I guess its a new or existing sport route with a lower in place.

Get to the LO somehow. Back rope lead or stick clip.

Fix one end to the base and/or another route. Tie off the rope at a suitable distance from the falling off point to get the fall factor comfortable. I know its only supposed to be a slump but the shunt sometimes does not run and a small fall factor fall results. I think Petzl do not recommend anything approaching Factor 1. Things snap!

I often use a prussik or similar to rebelay on the way down as it can be placed and adjusted with tension on the rope without interfering with the ab down.
Post edited at 22:18
Rick Graham on 23 Jul 2014
In reply to jon:

> Yes good points. It had taken me ages to stick clip up the route

Stick clipping up should be easier than climbing it, you must be doing something wrong ! :-)
jon on 23 Jul 2014
In reply to Rick Graham:

Yes, it's an existing sport route. See my post above. Just before the close of play I frigged back up to the fourth bolt and tied the rope off and went back down to try the start, this time with no stretch but sadly I was completely stuffed from my previous efforts! It's gone very hot here again, even in the shade.
jon on 23 Jul 2014
In reply to Rick Graham:

> Stick clipping up should be easier than climbing it, you must be doing something wrong ! :-)

Well I'm pretty cunning when it comes to frigging, so I don't think so!
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Rick Graham on 23 Jul 2014
In reply to jon:

> Well I'm pretty cunning when it comes to frigging, so I don't think so!

Big mistake to tell everybody :-)
Nick Sherring - on 20 Aug 2014
In reply to Stevie989:

Do you guys use any sort of backup to the shunt?
Stevie989 - on 20 Aug 2014
In reply to Stevie989:

I will ocasional put a knot below it but not often.
needvert on 21 Aug 2014
In reply to jon:

Two ropes, two teethed devices used within the manufacturers instructions (neither a shunt). Is safer than being belated by a person in my experience!
Luke Owens - on 21 Aug 2014
In reply to Stevie989:

Mallion

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