UKC

Which drill for bolting?

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 Kemics 03 Aug 2014
When equipping a new sport route is there any specific drill which is recommended?

I'm guessing prolific bolters own their own kit. But if you were reequipping a route/placing a handful of bolts do people hire them?

I was thinking of going to HSS hire and getting a cordless masonry drill? Would this be suitable (I imagine the batteries only do a few holes, so require plenty of spares?)

Would there be any reason not to just use a masonry drill, extension cable and a mini-generator...or is that just super uncool/impractical?

Drill bit wise, i'm guessing any drill bit is fine (assuming it matches the recommendation for the specific bolt being placed?)
 kristian Global Crag Moderator 03 Aug 2014
In reply to Kemics:

You need to use an SDS battery drill 24/36 volt with sds bits.
Cost from £100 upwards.
 sebrider 03 Aug 2014
In reply to Kemics:

I have hired and borrowed drills both electric and battery powered. Unless the rock is very hard the battery powered SDS drills with masonary drills are great. You should be able to equip a single pitch route with one battery.
OP Kemics 03 Aug 2014
In reply to kristian:

awesome. Seems very straight forward.

Is it worth going on a bolting apprenticeship? I know glue-ins can be a bit more technical and there's a few things to observe.

Or if it's a case of expansions, do you drill hole, blow hole clean (compressed air) put in bolt and tighten to the right recommendation with a torque spanner?
 MaranaF 03 Aug 2014
In reply to Kemics:

hi, if its soft try one of these...

http://www.exxpozed.com/petzl-rocpec.html?s=214624&currency=GBP&gcl...

they work! otherwise an battery SDS like they said.
 Keiran.A 04 Aug 2014
In reply to MaranaF:

best to pull test them as well, that where it gets expensive.
 TobyA 04 Aug 2014
In reply to Kemics:

> Is it worth going on a bolting apprenticeship? I know glue-ins can be a bit more technical and there's a few things to observe.

In Finland you need to do a course before you can get bolts and borrow the drill from the national climbing association. Isn't EVERYONE using glue-ins now? I thought expansion bolts were considered bad practice these days - but having helped friends equip routes (I was just cleaning), I think you owe those who climb the route to know what you're doing - so should have some sort of training?
 kristian Global Crag Moderator 04 Aug 2014
In reply to Kemics:

Glue-in bolts are always better but expansions have their place and with the correct selection of type for the environment are very quick and convenient.
For essential reading look no further than the Bolt Products pages.
http://www.bolt-products.com/Glue-inBoltDesign.htm

The BMC also have informative downloads.

The BMC's Better Bolts Campaign have in the past run bolt workshops but this was to assist local bolt funds not to help random people armed with drills.
OP Kemics 04 Aug 2014
In reply to TobyA:

I have placed 1 glue in under supervision. I know the theory but fully admit I'm FAR from expert. The reason I'm leaning to expansion is they seem much simpler

I know glue ins are a superior product but thought marine grade stainless 12mm expansion were still considered okay? At the crag in hoping to add a line, several new routes were put up in 2013 on expansions?
OP Kemics 04 Aug 2014
In reply to kristian:

Yeah Jim's website has proved very useful already. I'm planning to buy all the bolts and hangers from him. I particularly like his new rounded hangers, such an obvious but smart innovation
 Dave Williams 04 Aug 2014
OP Kemics 04 Aug 2014
In reply to Dave Williams:

That's brilliant. Thanks so much for taking time to reply.

I guess it'll have to be glue-ins. Ive no excuse except laziness for using expansions

The twisted leg design seem like a great option. It's good that they're slightly cheaper too which offsets the cost of the glue.

One quick question: do you know if they require a bevel drilled to sit the eye of the bolt into or do you just drill the 12mm hole and fit the eye flush to the rock?

Though climbing the route 1.5 hours later sounds terrifying! I think the resin I last used we gave 24hrs!
 Dave Williams 04 Aug 2014
In reply to Kemics:

> That's brilliant. Thanks so much for taking time to reply.
You're very welcome.

> I guess it'll have to be glue-ins. Ive no excuse except laziness for using expansions
I think glue-ins are almost as quick in practice, but obviously much messier.

> The twisted leg design seem like a great option. It's good that they're slightly cheaper too which offsets the cost of the glue.
Yes, they're really great bolts; screwing them in gently makes them easy to place and also means greater surface contact between the metal and the resin. (Forgot to mention that the hole needs to be about 2/3rds full of resin before the bolt's screwed in. Apologies if you knew this already!)

> One quick question: do you know if they require a bevel drilled to sit the eye of the bolt into or do you just drill the 12mm hole and fit the eye flush to the rock?
We do the latter; seems to work just fine. Occasionally you need to give a bolt a very gentle tap into the hole once it's full of resin, in order to get it seated properly. Best practice is not to use a metal hammer to do this, but rather use a leather faced hammer - or perhaps a rubber one.

> Though climbing the route 1.5 hours later sounds terrifying! I think the resin I last used we gave 24hrs!

Patience is a virtue I agree, and I'd have given it 24h too, but (unfortunately) Fischer glue specs state the following:

Processing and curing time:
Cartridge temperature (resin) / Gelling time / Setting time
.........5°C................................. 13 min..........90 min.
........10°C.................................. 9 min..........45 min.
........20°C.................................. 5 min..........30 min.
........30°C.................................. 4 min..........25 min.

Fateful words, recently spoken, were: "Right, let's get on with it, it's had more than three times as long as it needs."

The fall, a couple of minutes later. did cause a bit of, er, 'momentary excitement' though. The air was *very* blue ...


 Keiran.A 05 Aug 2014
In reply to Dave Williams:

Anyone had any experience with resin capsules, ignoring the price are they any good.

Also tidying chem is what you use the manual for, that and making a plug if you hit a cavity in masonry
Has anyone had any experience of these: http://www.screwfix.com/p/hitachi-dh24dvc-jk-4kg-2ah-ni-mh-cordless-sds-plu...

Compared to the Bosch/Makita/DeWalt ones?

I'm thinking along the lines of having a very good drill for many years, that will only do a light amount of bolting work.
 jimtitt 05 Aug 2014
In reply to Keiran.A:
> (In reply to Dave Williams)
>
> Anyone had any experience with resin capsules, ignoring the price are they any good.
>
> Also tidying chem is what you use the manual for, that and making a plug if you hit a cavity in masonry

Capsules are good in some ways and not in others. The main problem is getting a bolt/hole combination that has the right amount of glue. We don´t use the twisted leg design bolts for these as twisting the bolt in the hole is difficult, you need a solid-shaft bolt really and it should have an angled end. We make these different lengths to normal to suit the capsule volume. They generally give the strongest results especially in sandstone. Make sure they are vinylester hammer-in capsules like the Fischer FFB RM though there are many cheaper brands out there.
 MaranaF 05 Aug 2014
In reply to Fultonius:

Never used that one but I can recommend the new DeWalt 18v SDS http://www.screwfix.com/p/dewalt-dch253m2-gb-3kg-4ah-li-ion-cordless-sds-pl... its lighter than the 24 or 36 volt ones and the 2 4ah batteries are great for a whole days work. I have been using mine for work and fun for about 6 months now.

It is a bit more expensive...
 Jack Geldard 06 Aug 2014
In reply to MaranaF:

I have that same drill, with 3 x 4ah batteries.

Pretty light which is very handy for bolting on lead.

J
 Hammy 06 Aug 2014
In reply to Kemics:

Why not go for titanium...?

http://www.titanclimbing.com



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