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Why exactly are cycling jerseys and other gear so pricey when compared to trekking gear?
Ok, they're got a few pockets on the back but I still don't see why a fairly average cycling jersey should be selling for north of 50quid.
Not surprising that the Aldi/Lidl (or Adle as I now collectively refer to them) sell so much cycling gear.
The shorts I bought from them a few thousand kms ago seem to be doing the job nicely and for a fraction of the 'normal' price.
Or am I just a tight-wad?
Ok, they're got a few pockets on the back but I still don't see why a fairly average cycling jersey should be selling for north of 50quid.
Not surprising that the Aldi/Lidl (or Adle as I now collectively refer to them) sell so much cycling gear.
The shorts I bought from them a few thousand kms ago seem to be doing the job nicely and for a fraction of the 'normal' price.
Or am I just a tight-wad?
In reply to Kimono:
A lot of cycling gear is expensive, but so is a lot of walking, climbing and running gear. There are plenty cheaper options though, not just Aldi and Lidl.
A lot of cycling gear is expensive, but so is a lot of walking, climbing and running gear. There are plenty cheaper options though, not just Aldi and Lidl.
In reply to woolsack:
I'm sure they do....but is there a correlation with price??
My Adle shorts fit perfectly!
> Talking roady jerseys and shorts, some fit a whole lot better than others!
I'm sure they do....but is there a correlation with price??
My Adle shorts fit perfectly!
In reply to woolsack:
They're sold on the basis that they fit snugly around the waist. All my shirts do that...
They're sold on the basis that they fit snugly around the waist. All my shirts do that...
In reply to Kimono: I used to think so but I will be forking out for a new pair of assos shorts soon. I've always thought jerseys were over priced for what they do though but a recent club one (10 year special) that was what I consider expensive at 50 pounds is just sublime, lots of little things and different materials and the fit.
We all draw the line at different points but I now think of it like this. I'll spend more time wearing this stuff than any of my other clothing, weekends, evening and commuting. Rain or shine so I don't begrudge myself a good bit of kit now and again.
But yes, when you can spend double what I spend for already expensive items, ouch and I can't believe it's technically better especially jerseys.
Cheers
Toby
We all draw the line at different points but I now think of it like this. I'll spend more time wearing this stuff than any of my other clothing, weekends, evening and commuting. Rain or shine so I don't begrudge myself a good bit of kit now and again.
But yes, when you can spend double what I spend for already expensive items, ouch and I can't believe it's technically better especially jerseys.
Cheers
Toby
In reply to Kimono:
If I drove to work it'd cost be about £50 a week just in fuel. So I good buy a cycle jersey a week and throw them away after a week, and I'd be no worse off. Great value for the use it gets.
If I drove to work it'd cost be about £50 a week just in fuel. So I good buy a cycle jersey a week and throw them away after a week, and I'd be no worse off. Great value for the use it gets.
In reply to Kimono:
of course all gear is expensive,and is overpriced,;the retailers trick is to get you all to believe their tat is worth their extortinate prices; snob appeal.a bit like paintings,perhaps!
of course all gear is expensive,and is overpriced,;the retailers trick is to get you all to believe their tat is worth their extortinate prices; snob appeal.a bit like paintings,perhaps!
Post edited at 14:33
In reply to Kimono:
I could probably find a better fitting bin bag than the Aldi jersey I tried, and as for the shorts, I think I'd be more comfortable if I wrapped myself in sandpaper before a ride - they were hideous.
> My Adle shorts fit perfectly!
I could probably find a better fitting bin bag than the Aldi jersey I tried, and as for the shorts, I think I'd be more comfortable if I wrapped myself in sandpaper before a ride - they were hideous.
In reply to Kimono: Dumb post! You get get super cheap or super expensive cycle gear, the same as you can with most things.
In reply to yesbutnobutyesbut:
I guess what we are talking about is there is a cycle 'fashion' surcharge on top of what they're actually worth in terms of material, workmanship and performance. Same with special climbing clothes
Commute in London and am in a minority not wearing any lycra - imagine if I splashed out the £100 I would get to work ~30 seconds quicker? Interesting that you don't see nearly as many climbers sporting Ben Moon pants and 5.10 T-shirts
I guess what we are talking about is there is a cycle 'fashion' surcharge on top of what they're actually worth in terms of material, workmanship and performance. Same with special climbing clothes
Commute in London and am in a minority not wearing any lycra - imagine if I splashed out the £100 I would get to work ~30 seconds quicker? Interesting that you don't see nearly as many climbers sporting Ben Moon pants and 5.10 T-shirts
The obvious thing to do then is buy trekking rather than cycling jerseys. There problem solved!
You don't have to look at too many reviews of this sort of stuff to read things like (from Road.cc)....
"They look a lot better than they perform",
"The latter one's [panniers] were crap as the hooks did not survive their first shopping trip"
"I've never had them last more than 2 weeks before the sole splits at the point where the spd cleats screw in"
"it's about as breathable as the top floor of a bus in Brixton"
You don't have to look at too many reviews of this sort of stuff to read things like (from Road.cc)....
"They look a lot better than they perform",
"The latter one's [panniers] were crap as the hooks did not survive their first shopping trip"
"I've never had them last more than 2 weeks before the sole splits at the point where the spd cleats screw in"
"it's about as breathable as the top floor of a bus in Brixton"
In reply to Kimono:
Fox windproof a good example. 70 quid for a windproof material with Fox written on it. Nicely cut however!
Fox windproof a good example. 70 quid for a windproof material with Fox written on it. Nicely cut however!
In reply to Phil1919:
There's a lot of "it's expensive so it must be good" in cycling kit as in most sports. Is Arcteryx kit really worth that much more than <insert other brand here>?
A typical club jersey will be in the region of £35 and that's direct from the manufacturer so no retail markup.
Different manufacturers have different "fit" and some work better for certain individuals than others - my two best fitting shorts for example - one is from DHB (wiggle's in-house brand) and the other is from Assos, opposite ends of the price continuum.
There's a lot of "it's expensive so it must be good" in cycling kit as in most sports. Is Arcteryx kit really worth that much more than <insert other brand here>?
A typical club jersey will be in the region of £35 and that's direct from the manufacturer so no retail markup.
Different manufacturers have different "fit" and some work better for certain individuals than others - my two best fitting shorts for example - one is from DHB (wiggle's in-house brand) and the other is from Assos, opposite ends of the price continuum.
In reply to Bob:
Conversely, theres lots of "anyone charging more than <insert 'value' brand here> is ripping me off"
Lets not forget what the "retail markup' is for i.e. a showroom, salespeople etc.
Sometimes I'll go for top of the range other times its as cheap as chips so to tie this one off people need to purchase what they're comfortable with and ignore what others are doing.
> (In reply to Clint86)
>
> There's a lot of "it's expensive so it must be good" in cycling kit as in most sports. Is Arcteryx kit really worth that much more than <insert other brand here>?
>
> A typical club jersey will be in the region of £35 and that's direct from the manufacturer so no retail markup.
>
> There's a lot of "it's expensive so it must be good" in cycling kit as in most sports. Is Arcteryx kit really worth that much more than <insert other brand here>?
>
> A typical club jersey will be in the region of £35 and that's direct from the manufacturer so no retail markup.
Conversely, theres lots of "anyone charging more than <insert 'value' brand here> is ripping me off"
Lets not forget what the "retail markup' is for i.e. a showroom, salespeople etc.
Sometimes I'll go for top of the range other times its as cheap as chips so to tie this one off people need to purchase what they're comfortable with and ignore what others are doing.
In reply to Indy:
Yes, there's that. It's a bit like going to a restaurant, having a three course meal for £30 a head then complaining that you can get a takeaway for £5 a head. They are different things. Sometimes I want the restaurant meal, sometimes I want the takeaway.
Yes, there's that. It's a bit like going to a restaurant, having a three course meal for £30 a head then complaining that you can get a takeaway for £5 a head. They are different things. Sometimes I want the restaurant meal, sometimes I want the takeaway.
In reply to Orgsm:
That's pretty poor logic. The cycling Jersey doesn't get you to work, the bike does. You could wear a £1 t-shirt that might last a year, or a 1,000 pound suit that you ruin in a month. Don't get me wrong, my bike has paid for itself many times over but I don't tend to wear specialised gear for going to work on it. For me it's as easily justified as either 'I want it', or 'its nice to have nice things', sometimes I just want something that is a little bit better and I'm willing to pay more for it.
That's pretty poor logic. The cycling Jersey doesn't get you to work, the bike does. You could wear a £1 t-shirt that might last a year, or a 1,000 pound suit that you ruin in a month. Don't get me wrong, my bike has paid for itself many times over but I don't tend to wear specialised gear for going to work on it. For me it's as easily justified as either 'I want it', or 'its nice to have nice things', sometimes I just want something that is a little bit better and I'm willing to pay more for it.
Post edited at 02:38
In reply to Kimono:
I always wore the cheap stuff from decathlon. Upgraded to mid range Polaris shorts and tights and they're much better. Used to wear a cheap black unbranded shirt but had to cut it off when I broke my collar bone. Wear the Mark Cavendish sky shirt now that a mate gave me, hate advertising for Murdoch but in every other respect it's miles better. I think you get what you pay for to a certain point - after which you're paying much more for quite small improvements.
I always wore the cheap stuff from decathlon. Upgraded to mid range Polaris shorts and tights and they're much better. Used to wear a cheap black unbranded shirt but had to cut it off when I broke my collar bone. Wear the Mark Cavendish sky shirt now that a mate gave me, hate advertising for Murdoch but in every other respect it's miles better. I think you get what you pay for to a certain point - after which you're paying much more for quite small improvements.
In reply to Kimono:
I am quite aware that you get what you pay for. My point however is that it seems that cycling gear is generally overpriced, certainly compared to trekking gear.
As for the charming poster above who started his reply by saying 'dumb post'
Would you speak to me like that in person?
It seems a fair question to me having browsed the £80+ jerseys in my LBS recently
I am quite aware that you get what you pay for. My point however is that it seems that cycling gear is generally overpriced, certainly compared to trekking gear.
As for the charming poster above who started his reply by saying 'dumb post'
Would you speak to me like that in person?
It seems a fair question to me having browsed the £80+ jerseys in my LBS recently
In reply to Kimono:
Pretty aspirational sport these days. Check out the tw*temporiums opening in soho. Asos is the dogs, but I always wait for the sales.
D
Pretty aspirational sport these days. Check out the tw*temporiums opening in soho. Asos is the dogs, but I always wait for the sales.
D
In reply to Kimono:
Yes.It is a dumb post for the reasons I stated. What 'trekking gear' are you comparing it to? If you're comparing Decathlon cycling gear with Arcteryx 'trekking' gear then what looks cheap and what looks expensive?
Assos shorts are pretty expensive but thousands of cyclists use them because they are super comfy and last. Long term they represent great value for money but there's always plenty of people going 'they're too expensive, they're a rip off'. If something is genuinely a rip off it won't be on the market very long.
I've read plenty of cycling clothing reveiws were the summing up lists lots of pros and then the only con is 'expensive'.
If the only downside to something is the cost then it's probably worth the money.
> As for the charming poster above who started his reply by saying 'dumb post'
> Would you speak to me like that in person?
Yes.It is a dumb post for the reasons I stated. What 'trekking gear' are you comparing it to? If you're comparing Decathlon cycling gear with Arcteryx 'trekking' gear then what looks cheap and what looks expensive?
Assos shorts are pretty expensive but thousands of cyclists use them because they are super comfy and last. Long term they represent great value for money but there's always plenty of people going 'they're too expensive, they're a rip off'. If something is genuinely a rip off it won't be on the market very long.
I've read plenty of cycling clothing reveiws were the summing up lists lots of pros and then the only con is 'expensive'.
If the only downside to something is the cost then it's probably worth the money.
In reply to Kimono:
In my opinion the sport is irrelevant. Most sporting gear is over priced because we are willing to pay for it.
Yes you get what you pay for and the more it costs the better it is (in most cases) but this sort of stuff is luxury goods and people will pay for those.
I just got panniers for my motorbike and the cost of new ones is astronomical for what is basically a moulded plastic box with £5 worth of lock on it but whilst people are willing to pay X hundred quid they will charge that.
I was lucky and found a pair on eBay at a decent price.
In my opinion the sport is irrelevant. Most sporting gear is over priced because we are willing to pay for it.
Yes you get what you pay for and the more it costs the better it is (in most cases) but this sort of stuff is luxury goods and people will pay for those.
I just got panniers for my motorbike and the cost of new ones is astronomical for what is basically a moulded plastic box with £5 worth of lock on it but whilst people are willing to pay X hundred quid they will charge that.
I was lucky and found a pair on eBay at a decent price.
In reply to Kimono:
I admit these are a bit pricey!
http://www.thebikerooms.com/clothing/new-assos-t-campionissimo-s7-bibshorts...
I admit these are a bit pricey!
http://www.thebikerooms.com/clothing/new-assos-t-campionissimo-s7-bibshorts...
In reply to Kimono:
I was in Decathlon buying a bottle holder and bottle for my bike. They range from £1.99 (the one I bought), to about £7.99. But then at the top end of the scale is one for £24.99
http://www.decathlon.co.uk/moro-carbon-cycling-bottle-cage-black--id_805191...
I'm a crap cyclist. Do it to get to and from work, and then at the weekends I love pootling around the hills at my own pace.
I wondered what level of cycling you'd have to be doing to feel the need to pay this much for a bottle cage. Can it really offer that much of an improvement over the £1.99 cage?
> I am quite aware that you get what you pay for. My point however is that it seems that cycling gear is generally overpriced, certainly compared to trekking gear.
I was in Decathlon buying a bottle holder and bottle for my bike. They range from £1.99 (the one I bought), to about £7.99. But then at the top end of the scale is one for £24.99
http://www.decathlon.co.uk/moro-carbon-cycling-bottle-cage-black--id_805191...
I'm a crap cyclist. Do it to get to and from work, and then at the weekends I love pootling around the hills at my own pace.
I wondered what level of cycling you'd have to be doing to feel the need to pay this much for a bottle cage. Can it really offer that much of an improvement over the £1.99 cage?
In reply to ThunderCat:
Some people will pay hundreds of quid to save a few grammes on their bike when it would be easier and cheaper to lose kilogrammes off their bellies.
Don't worry about it: a) the shop might not actually sell any of the £25 ones. b) they make the £8 ones look cheap. c) if anyone does buy one of the £25 ones then it helps keep the shop in business.
Some people will pay hundreds of quid to save a few grammes on their bike when it would be easier and cheaper to lose kilogrammes off their bellies.
Don't worry about it: a) the shop might not actually sell any of the £25 ones. b) they make the £8 ones look cheap. c) if anyone does buy one of the £25 ones then it helps keep the shop in business.
In reply to Bob:
Oh no, wasn't worried about and I wasn't having a go at people who do buy them...You earn your dosh, you can spend it however you like!
It's just something that I can't personally understand and I think it goes back to my 'not having a pot to p*ss in' childhood. All clothing (and pretty much everything else!!!) was hand me downs and absolute bottom of the range stuff, and was worn until it was more hole than material
Still got that hangover. I cycle in a pair of shorts I've had for about 5 years (or cargo pants if it's a bit nippy), a t-shirt and a hi viz vest. Don't do labels, don't to flashy shows of wealth.
Was just interested whether there is an actual advantage to hi-end stuff (obviously some times there is), but just didn't get it with the £25 bike cage.
> Some people will pay hundreds of quid to save a few grammes on their bike when it would be easier and cheaper to lose kilogrammes off their bellies.
> Don't worry about it: a) the shop might not actually sell any of the £25 ones. b) they make the £8 ones look cheap. c) if anyone does buy one of the £25 ones then it helps keep the shop in business.
Oh no, wasn't worried about and I wasn't having a go at people who do buy them...You earn your dosh, you can spend it however you like!
It's just something that I can't personally understand and I think it goes back to my 'not having a pot to p*ss in' childhood. All clothing (and pretty much everything else!!!) was hand me downs and absolute bottom of the range stuff, and was worn until it was more hole than material
Still got that hangover. I cycle in a pair of shorts I've had for about 5 years (or cargo pants if it's a bit nippy), a t-shirt and a hi viz vest. Don't do labels, don't to flashy shows of wealth.
Was just interested whether there is an actual advantage to hi-end stuff (obviously some times there is), but just didn't get it with the £25 bike cage.
Post edited at 15:50
In reply to The New NickB:
I love the modelling!
> (In reply to Kimono)
>
> I admit these are a bit pricey!
>
> http://www.thebikerooms.com/clothing/new-assos-t-campionissimo-s7-bibshorts...
>
> I admit these are a bit pricey!
>
> http://www.thebikerooms.com/clothing/new-assos-t-campionissimo-s7-bibshorts...
I love the modelling!
In reply to Kimono:
As I spend more time in the saddle, longer rides as well as greater frequency I've had to change from Aldi kits for the sake of my under carriage. In fact, year by year I notice the cost of the shorts I use has probably risen by about £20 per year. It's worth it to me to be able to carry on riding.
Tops wise, sometimes you just get fed up of ill fitting tops flapping in the wind and riding up at the back; of not being able to reach pockets because they are poorly designed, of not having any wind proofing for the inevitable British weather etc. etc., or having nowhere to securely put your house keys zipped in. Having said that, I tend to go to ebay and get something decent second hand. It's not really about a particular brand, it's about having something functional.
As I spend more time in the saddle, longer rides as well as greater frequency I've had to change from Aldi kits for the sake of my under carriage. In fact, year by year I notice the cost of the shorts I use has probably risen by about £20 per year. It's worth it to me to be able to carry on riding.
Tops wise, sometimes you just get fed up of ill fitting tops flapping in the wind and riding up at the back; of not being able to reach pockets because they are poorly designed, of not having any wind proofing for the inevitable British weather etc. etc., or having nowhere to securely put your house keys zipped in. Having said that, I tend to go to ebay and get something decent second hand. It's not really about a particular brand, it's about having something functional.
In reply to Kimono: Cycling gear is no more expensive than climbing/walking gear. you will pay around £50 for a synthetic/merino t-shirt from rab/north face/mountain equipment etc and more for a fancy zippy long sleeved thingy. sure you can get a £10 mountain warehouse t-shirt just as you can get a £10 lidl cycling jersey, but comparing a mtn warehouse top to a fox jersey is not a fair comparison
In reply to Kimono:
I go for function and, as I'm generally skint, an affordable price. I've been buying Decathlon cycling shorts recently. Can anyone tell me if more expensive brands are significantly better performing or more comfortable?
They seem pretty good for £7 (although my arse does look big in them)...
I go for function and, as I'm generally skint, an affordable price. I've been buying Decathlon cycling shorts recently. Can anyone tell me if more expensive brands are significantly better performing or more comfortable?
They seem pretty good for £7 (although my arse does look big in them)...
In reply to Webster:
I own Rab and Mountain Equipment synthetic tops and they are nowhere near £50. I wouldn't pay that. £20 max?
Most Merino stuff is way too expensive for my budget, so that'd equate to the £50 price band.
I reckon cycling is more gear driven and aspirational than climbing. People will pay thousands for the bike alone, never mind the accessories. I reckon most cyclists are more comfortable with the cost of the clothes than the comparable climber.
I own Rab and Mountain Equipment synthetic tops and they are nowhere near £50. I wouldn't pay that. £20 max?
Most Merino stuff is way too expensive for my budget, so that'd equate to the £50 price band.
I reckon cycling is more gear driven and aspirational than climbing. People will pay thousands for the bike alone, never mind the accessories. I reckon most cyclists are more comfortable with the cost of the clothes than the comparable climber.
In reply to AlisonSmiles:
I'm doing a 12 hour TT in September and the 12 hours cycling is secondary to the prospect of 12 hours of undercarriage hell
> As I spend more time in the saddle, longer rides as well as greater frequency I've had to change from Aldi kits for the sake of my under carriage. In fact, year by year I notice the cost of the shorts I use has probably risen by about £20 per year. It's worth it to me to be able to carry on riding.
I'm doing a 12 hour TT in September and the 12 hours cycling is secondary to the prospect of 12 hours of undercarriage hell
In reply to Kimono:
I find the more expensive, the better the fit and construction and hence the more comfortable/functional it will be.
That said, I only ever buy my kit in sales, unless absolutely unavoidable
I find the more expensive, the better the fit and construction and hence the more comfortable/functional it will be.
That said, I only ever buy my kit in sales, unless absolutely unavoidable
In reply to yesbutnobutyesbut:
Is it not "dumb" that you cannot get where (not were)correct in your sentence?
I have to say that it seems that the middle ground brands are,at least so far for me, a good compromise. I was bought an enduro coat for Christmas and it fits really well and it is warmer than its weight would suggest.
Yesterday I looked at cycling shorts for mountain biking and bought another Enduro item.The company's shorts wer £45 compared to a reduced price of £70 on another brand at Rutland cycling.The enduro ones have lots of useful pockets and clipped in lining pants.
Then again I am new to MTB.I think that I still prefer road biking.
> I've read plenty of cycling clothing reveiws were the summing up lists lots of pros and then the only con is 'expensive'.
Is it not "dumb" that you cannot get where (not were)correct in your sentence?
I have to say that it seems that the middle ground brands are,at least so far for me, a good compromise. I was bought an enduro coat for Christmas and it fits really well and it is warmer than its weight would suggest.
Yesterday I looked at cycling shorts for mountain biking and bought another Enduro item.The company's shorts wer £45 compared to a reduced price of £70 on another brand at Rutland cycling.The enduro ones have lots of useful pockets and clipped in lining pants.
Then again I am new to MTB.I think that I still prefer road biking.
In reply to veteye:
It's about as dumb as picking someone up on their spelling without addressing any of the other points made in their post.
It's about as dumb as picking someone up on their spelling without addressing any of the other points made in their post.
In reply to Kimono:
It is selling for that much because that is what someone will pay for it.
Isn't that obvious?
LD
> but I still don't see why a fairly average cycling jersey should be selling for north of 50quid.
It is selling for that much because that is what someone will pay for it.
Isn't that obvious?
LD
In reply to ThunderCat:
Must have been a cheap place. Top priced bottle cages circa £50 in my LBS.
> (In reply to Bob)
> [...]
>
> [...]
>
>
> Was just interested whether there is an actual advantage to hi-end stuff (obviously some times there is), but just didn't get it with the £25 bike cage.
> [...]
>
> [...]
>
>
> Was just interested whether there is an actual advantage to hi-end stuff (obviously some times there is), but just didn't get it with the £25 bike cage.
Must have been a cheap place. Top priced bottle cages circa £50 in my LBS.
In reply to Lurking Dave:
I think cycling clothing can be justifiably a bit more expensive than Trekking/running gear. Just take padded shorts. The equivalent for running wouldn't need a pad sewn in for starters and having experienced the difference between cheap pads and expensive ones it can certainly be worth it. Plus I would say that if the pad doesn't do its job it will have a much bigger impact on the performance of a rider than a small fault in a pair of running shorts.
Similarly with the jerseys although I find the the difference between a £30 and £50+ one pretty negligible if the fit is good.
> (In reply to Kimono)
>
> [...]
>
> It is selling for that much because that is what someone will pay for it.
>
> Isn't that obvious?
>
> [...]
>
> It is selling for that much because that is what someone will pay for it.
>
> Isn't that obvious?
I think cycling clothing can be justifiably a bit more expensive than Trekking/running gear. Just take padded shorts. The equivalent for running wouldn't need a pad sewn in for starters and having experienced the difference between cheap pads and expensive ones it can certainly be worth it. Plus I would say that if the pad doesn't do its job it will have a much bigger impact on the performance of a rider than a small fault in a pair of running shorts.
Similarly with the jerseys although I find the the difference between a £30 and £50+ one pretty negligible if the fit is good.
In reply to DubyaJamesDubya:
Sweet Jesus. That's more than I paid for my bike
> Must have been a cheap place. Top priced bottle cages circa £50 in my LBS.
Sweet Jesus. That's more than I paid for my bike
In reply to Kimono:
My assos shorts are better than all my others by some margin but you'd hope they would be. I also have a lot of endura gear as that is very well designed, though I'm a bit upset that their ten out of ten winter bibs with the waterproof panels that I paid 60-80 quid for (so long ago I can't actually remember) are no longer made and the new version has gone past the 100 mark
Of my earlier cheaper shorts none have lasted except the endura ones (though they have a big whole in them) so price evens out a lot.
Talking of overpriced though how about running shoes, they had them in lidl the other day for 14.99 and I couldn't see a lot of difference between them and the 100 pound ones in some running shops.
Cheers
Toby
My assos shorts are better than all my others by some margin but you'd hope they would be. I also have a lot of endura gear as that is very well designed, though I'm a bit upset that their ten out of ten winter bibs with the waterproof panels that I paid 60-80 quid for (so long ago I can't actually remember) are no longer made and the new version has gone past the 100 mark
Of my earlier cheaper shorts none have lasted except the endura ones (though they have a big whole in them) so price evens out a lot.
Talking of overpriced though how about running shoes, they had them in lidl the other day for 14.99 and I couldn't see a lot of difference between them and the 100 pound ones in some running shops.
Cheers
Toby
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