UKC

This might only pertain to indoor artificial wall problems.

Usually the rule is "both hands touching finishing hold in control". You don't have to be grasping that hold in a manner that would allow you to top out if there were a top upon which to do so. Just touching the hold in a controlled manner (i.e. not jump-slap-fall)
In some extreme cases this "touching" has involved just a single fingertip from each hand. This counts, it's valid. I've seen it in competition.

My question is - does SKIN have to be touching?
I saw someone recently at full stretch, straining to even get fingertips onto the bottom of a hold. They managed to touch it with the end of their FINGERNAILS, and claimed the tick. Now, these were not crazy 3" fingernails or anything, and arguably fingernails are "skin", but should this have been allowed, or is this somewhat scraping the bottom of the barrel?

In reply to Blue Straggler:

It doesn't count in my opinion. But climbing at an indoor wall is just training, so it doesn't matter if you're finishing the problems or not.

For example, going by that I've climbed 6b at the wall. I'd got to the last hold, had mixed up my arms and could touch the middle of the final hold, but I couldn't quite latch it and I fell off. My mate said I'd done it as I was touching the last hold.

In reply to Blue Straggler:

it doesnt really matter does it its not realistic anyway

In reply to mattrm:

6b as in "sport lead"? Finishing a sport route is different to finishing a boulder problem, you are supposed to be able to put the rope through the lower-off (a purist would say "without holding the chains" or in an indoor wall scenario, "without grabbing the top of the wall or some crossbeam behind")

And within the context of the indoor wall problem, surely it DOES matter if you've finished the problem. Given that this thread is about finishing problems (a clue in the title), and is in the Bouldering forum, I'm almost inclined to call your reply a troll

In reply to Blue Straggler:

Totally up to you what you count or don't unless it's a comp in which case you're stuck with the rules.

Personally I'll go back and have another go if I didn't catch and hold the top hold.

jk

In reply to ow arm:


I haven't claimed that it matters, and I have mentioned "artificiality" which is an implicit acknowledgement of "not being realistic"

Does anyone have anything to add which is not already in the OP?

In reply to Blue Straggler:

In a bigger sport, when things like this can reasonably happen on a rare but not incredibly rare basis then the governing body would usually make a ruling on it. Often these rulings form the basis of advice to referees (and are how the referees are 'expected' to operate) but may or may not be written down in the rules (if you write every edge case in the rules they get silly).

The IFSC may already have made such a ruling, or top judges may already have decided how to decide. If such a decision has been made, then people's opinions on here are irrelevant :P

However, if they haven't then it would presumably be up to the competition organizers or the individual judge.

I personally, if I had to make the decision, would say it is fine? Anyone done a competition and had this come up?

In reply to Blue Straggler:

Wouldn't that be classed as 'Hold Number Minus'? i.e. they've touched the hold, but not in control/made use of it.

In reply to FactorXXX:

"Touching" and "holding" are two different things though...
If the rules say "holding" then yes, fingernails doesn't really count! But "touching"...well therein lies the rub.

In reply to Blue Straggler:

I've always gone with "match the top hold and get the top clip in without using a hold from another route". I think Big Rock's competition rules just say "get the top clip in" or somesuch, but you can often do that from the hold below the top one, which to me is cheating.

Neil

In reply to Blue Straggler:

I would say that as long as you are in control, whether this be by touching or holding the last hold with both hands then its a tick.

In reply to Blue Straggler:

If it says "both hands touching finishing hold", a fingernail is part of the hand so I'd say yes, it counts.

I'm now planning on growing my fingernails

In reply to Blue Straggler: I had one at the Climb Newcastle comp a few weeks ago on the 45 degree wall where I'd got to the penultimate hold, made the top with 1 hand, but knew I was too pumped to match, and the hold was getting smaller each second.

I went for it, matched it for a second of two then popped off. Fortunately there were enough people around to get a democratic vote on whether I was allowed the top. They must have been feeling generous as they gave me it haha.

I would say fingernails are generally short enough for it to be some kind of skin touching too, provided it's in control I think it would be pretty harsh to argue otherwise.

In reply to Blue Straggler:

Last 'holds' on bouldering problems may not make a hold possible, just a touch or contact by leaning, as some end with a square outlined in chalk or tape with nothing to grasp.

In reply to Blue Straggler:

"Touching" and "holding" are two different things though...

Hence the 'minus' differentiator...

In reply to Blue Straggler:


But the title is Ethics of finishing a route

If nails were in, wouldn't you need a length of nail rule?

But yeah, mostly I think you'd give them it, unless they were lanky and using it to avoid climbing 2/3 of the problem, then you shout Bollocks.

In reply to Blue Straggler:


It was 6b on a top rope, so no chains to clip. Otherwise I'd agree with you about indoor leading.

Yeah, I know it's in the bouldering forum, but my point was that I didn't agree with 'touching the hold to finish'. You've got to grab it properly. However as I'd said, indoor bouldering/climbing is training, so really, who cares what you can or can't do indoors?

First time I've ever been called a troll however in 15 odd years of using the internets however. But then trolling seems to have a rather different meaning these days.

In reply to Blue Straggler:

"Back around!"

In reply to Flinticus:


In the case of a recent fun comp route at my local, they can end with a square of carpet tile hanging from a bit of string and you have to touch the surface of the carpet, without pulling it toward you by its edge or by string. This combined with a sit-down finish on a volume....

In reply to Blue Straggler:

If the hold is positive and the problem has been set with a dynamic move in mind to get to the last hold then I would say no do it properly. If the hold is flat and impossible to hang from and most people can't reach it then would say it's a shite problem.

In reply to PondLife:


But if the hold is flat and impossible to hang from and most people can reach it then it is often just an innovative test of bridging ability

In reply to Blue Straggler:

If you are touching the hold with any part of both hands and in control at that point you have the tick. I've never heard of any rules saying you bave to touch things in a particular way. The amount of cheating going on in self policed comps is embarrasing at times without having to worry about niceties like this.

In reply to Blue Straggler:

Doesn't count unless you do 3 pull ups and then proceed to bat hang off the hold for 5 seconds. (10 seconds for vertical and slab problems)

In reply to thread:

The perpetrator has gone back and done the "fingernails eliminate".

When outdoors do you always have to top out as there have been some climbs where the top out looks (or is) impossible as sometimes the guidebooks give almost no information.

In reply to joe.lizard:

No, I have seen a good few top-end bouldering videos of elite climbers, and the matching hands is the end of the route then they drop back onto the mat.