UKC

I know that their has been many threads about this before. I have a local crag that has a route with about 4 pitons in place. Its a mix of hard and slightly soft sandstone where the pitons are and I'm tempted to remove them and climb it using trad gear. If I remove the pitons and the gear placements are terrible should I replace it? And how is the best way to remove them causing the least amount of damage?
Corey

In reply to coreybennett:

Assuming it's a vertical crack (rather than horiontal break), the best way to remove is to gently tap upwards then back down to it's original position. then upwards again, and ack to it's original position. With any luck this should leave a good nut slot when you remove the peg. (Hammering the peg downwards will open out the bottom of the slot and make it somewhat more flared, and hence, a less good nut slot.

In reply to cymjt:

Thanks, I'll give that a go!

In reply to coreybennett:

It is unlikely that nuts will hold a fall in sandstone, that is probably why there are pitons in situ - they are much more likely to do the job.

Removing the pitons will damage the rock and you may not get such a good anchor if you replace them... best not to remove them perhaps...

It would probably be a good idea to discuss it with the crag moderator or at the BMC Area meeting...

In reply to coreybennett:

If you can pull the peg straight out this is a much better idea. You will need an aid hammer and a funkness for this though unless the peg is rotten in which case a pair of pliers may be all that is needed. Please take out any broken bits of metal left in the bottom the crack as otherwise there will be a massive rust trail.

If you can take them out and a micro cam fits, by all means do so but only if it is acceptable as otherwise other climbers will get a rude shock when they get to the supposed peg.

In reply to coreybennett:

I can understand why you would like to climb the route on trad gear. However, assuming the pitons are good, you might run the risk of spoiling other peoples enjoyment of the climb. Pitons are part and parcel of some climbs and there are likely to be many out there who are quite happy using them on this route.

It might be best gauging the wider opinion of those using the crag before forging ahead and changing the nature of the route?

Mike.

In reply to coreybennett:

Im not a great fan of the trad/fixed gear/bolts discussion but I do respect the fact that when some of these pitons we find were placed there were no cams, no wired nuts or any of the other protection we take for granted these days.

The pietons were probably placed as the most practical protection available at the time and their presence indicates the original style of the route. removing them will change the nature of the climb in the same way adding a few bolts would.

All that said I have come across rusty pietons that are clearly decades old that will not move and shiny ones that look like they have been in a week and can be lifted out without effort, I have a collection of badly placed pietons and always treat the protection I find with respect and without expectations of performance.

Ultimately I would ask if you need to do anything to this route, whats your agenda, what do you want to achieve by pulling these pietons out?

This little lost arrow is a fave of mine, its at the chains on an old sports route just up the hill from me, I have placed a new bolted chain but left this pieton in place to ensure the context of the route is maintained.

http://www.myclimbing.club/go/albums/photo/view/album_id/5/photo_id/61

In reply to Derby Grit:

I'm sure that the crag moderator and BMC would not be bothered as it is described as the most unpleasant crag of the moors and very very rarely attracts climbers, if at all! Its one of my local crags and I believe it can be climbed on trad gear and it as some potential. Also the pitons are paper thin and rusted to the point that even a slump would snap them.

In reply to coreybennett: My opinion is to climb it without using the pegs and then if you can do that consider taking the pegs out and possible change the grade. Usually people don't invest money in pegs and leave them their for nothing though ...

In reply to coreybennett:

Why not post the name of route, you might get a more specific response?

In reply to 1poundSOCKS:

Its the teeside twitcher at eston nab, E4 6b. By the looks of things its only had one ascent and that was the first one back in 2009. I can't find anything saying that it was an old aid route but theitons are pretty knackered.

In reply to coreybennett:

What are you going to do if you pull the pegs then can't do it? Replace them?
Anyhow, if the pegs are so far gone that they won't hold a fall then you should pull them regardless - no point in leaving them in to get snapped and leave rusting stumps that prevent ballnuts or similar from being used.

In reply to Toerag:

I can do it. But I will remove them anyway.

In reply to coreybennett:

I belayed Luke on the FA of this. Good route and he took a fall on his first attempt onto said pitons. They held and are not rubbish. It was indeed an aid route (which you'd realise if you'd looked at the guide).

Whilst it's not true that nuts aren't to be trusted in sandstone, this particular route is a particularly soft type of sandstone and the clean gear is especially dubious.

I'd be very cautious with removing fixed gear on such a chossy route before knowing that it is possible without it. How do you know you can do it?

In reply to Franco Cookson:

I'm afraid that the only guide I have is the latest rock fax guide which doesn't actually include eston nab. I know I can climb it because I have already toproped the route clean. I was checking it out and the pitons did look pretty dubious. I think that with the removal of the pitons a gear placement will be made.