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I'm suprised there are so many questions about how and where to wild camp.
I thought it was obvious that you can carry some camping stuff onto a hill and with the use of map and brain find somewhere to erect a tent and sleep.
I thought it was obvious that you can carry some camping stuff onto a hill and with the use of map and brain find somewhere to erect a tent and sleep.
In reply to pasbury:
Standard questions on any hillwalking forum.
Not everyone's as confident as perhaps you are, and lots of people like to plan to camp at a certain spot that they know'll be a good wildcamping spot and plan the rest of the walk around that. Wildcamping is technically illegal in most of England and Wales which may also add to a bit of uncertainty in the minds of some - I think the more you do it the less worried you become about this because you're better at selecting good spots and know you're very unlikely to be disturbed.
Standard questions on any hillwalking forum.
Not everyone's as confident as perhaps you are, and lots of people like to plan to camp at a certain spot that they know'll be a good wildcamping spot and plan the rest of the walk around that. Wildcamping is technically illegal in most of England and Wales which may also add to a bit of uncertainty in the minds of some - I think the more you do it the less worried you become about this because you're better at selecting good spots and know you're very unlikely to be disturbed.
In reply to pasbury:
I think perhaps some people are used to having resorces to hand such as piped water and showers etc, wild camping to some is like the difference between Trad and Sport ?
Jase
I think perhaps some people are used to having resorces to hand such as piped water and showers etc, wild camping to some is like the difference between Trad and Sport ?
Jase
In reply to Welsh Kate:
Oh God no! Not all one word please. It is bad enough as two!
> .....wildcamping......
Oh God no! Not all one word please. It is bad enough as two!
In reply to Robert Durran:
I just thought it was 'camping' no need for the 'wild'
> Oh God no! Not all one word please. It is bad enough as two!
I just thought it was 'camping' no need for the 'wild'
In reply to pasbury:
I did it for the first time earlier this month. I had to overcome personal obstacles in my quest to park the car when all the car parks forbade overnight stays. I'll write more in a full post elsewhere, but we had to actually find somewhere to pitch, and even once we'd done that we were on a gentle slope so if you curled up into a ball you'd slowly slide to the bottom of the tent. Oh, the drama!
On second thoughts, it was common sense.
> I'm suprised there are so many questions about how and where to wild camp.
> I thought it was obvious that you can carry some camping stuff onto a hill and with the use of map and brain find somewhere to erect a tent and sleep.
I did it for the first time earlier this month. I had to overcome personal obstacles in my quest to park the car when all the car parks forbade overnight stays. I'll write more in a full post elsewhere, but we had to actually find somewhere to pitch, and even once we'd done that we were on a gentle slope so if you curled up into a ball you'd slowly slide to the bottom of the tent. Oh, the drama!
On second thoughts, it was common sense.
In reply to lone:
I was going to say multipitch versus single pitch - once you've done it a couple of times you realize that it's not that big a thing, but until you have it's easy to build it up into a big scary step into the unknown.
> I think perhaps some people are used to having resorces to hand such as piped water and showers etc, wild camping to some is like the difference between Trad and Sport ?
I was going to say multipitch versus single pitch - once you've done it a couple of times you realize that it's not that big a thing, but until you have it's easy to build it up into a big scary step into the unknown.
In reply to pasbury:
You can express the same sentiment about anything when you are knowledgable/able and others are wholly new to something.
Most people tend to project their own levels of ability onto others - e.g. I can do mental arithmetic pretty fast, it always suprises me a bit when other people just can't do it at all and need a calculator. Or; working out how to use a new program on the computer just seems logical and easy for me because I already know how to use many others so it suprises me when people are incapable of working out how to use a new program themselves and have to be instructed.
Nobody is born with any wild camping abilities, most of the people in this read have learned them over time (perhaps without really realising). People posting questions obviously have not learned them, likely through a lack of experience in the same.
You can express the same sentiment about anything when you are knowledgable/able and others are wholly new to something.
Most people tend to project their own levels of ability onto others - e.g. I can do mental arithmetic pretty fast, it always suprises me a bit when other people just can't do it at all and need a calculator. Or; working out how to use a new program on the computer just seems logical and easy for me because I already know how to use many others so it suprises me when people are incapable of working out how to use a new program themselves and have to be instructed.
Nobody is born with any wild camping abilities, most of the people in this read have learned them over time (perhaps without really realising). People posting questions obviously have not learned them, likely through a lack of experience in the same.
In reply to henwardian:
It's like the "XXX For Dummies" series of books. I looked at several and thought "Numpty material". Then I picked one up on sailing ...
It's like the "XXX For Dummies" series of books. I looked at several and thought "Numpty material". Then I picked one up on sailing ...
In reply to henwardian:
I don't remember having to 'learn' anything about it. Just did it from quite an early age. Of course we learnt an awful lot from experience, but that's life, isn't it? We didn't actually have any distinction between camping and so-called 'wild' camping, probably because all camping when I started doing it was with v small tents and minimal gear anyway. When you had to walk a long way to some wild spot in the mountains, of course you travelled as light as possible. You didn't have to learn that - it was damned obvious!
I don't remember having to 'learn' anything about it. Just did it from quite an early age. Of course we learnt an awful lot from experience, but that's life, isn't it? We didn't actually have any distinction between camping and so-called 'wild' camping, probably because all camping when I started doing it was with v small tents and minimal gear anyway. When you had to walk a long way to some wild spot in the mountains, of course you travelled as light as possible. You didn't have to learn that - it was damned obvious!
In reply to Welsh Kate:
'Wildcamping is technically illegal in most of England and Wales'
Nope. Camping on someone's land might be trespass but there is no 'law' against 'wild' camping.
It is an 'excepted activity' in CRoW terms but that doesn't make it 'illegal' it just means you can't use CRoW to justify it.
'Wildcamping is technically illegal in most of England and Wales'
Nope. Camping on someone's land might be trespass but there is no 'law' against 'wild' camping.
It is an 'excepted activity' in CRoW terms but that doesn't make it 'illegal' it just means you can't use CRoW to justify it.
In reply to Gordon Stainforth:
"As light as possible" is a matter of experience as well though isn't it?
I mean we both know that the best way to go light is to leave unnecessary things behind, ideally without making the mistake of buying them in the first place. Light weight kit helps but is secondary.
If you go into any outdoor shop you will see tons of "light weight" and "essential" items that look useful, and have a good writeup but really aren't any good for anything but car camping.
So do you let people find out the hard way, or do you tell them before they go out and have a miserable time?
Rhetorical question actually. Hard way every time! '
"As light as possible" is a matter of experience as well though isn't it?
I mean we both know that the best way to go light is to leave unnecessary things behind, ideally without making the mistake of buying them in the first place. Light weight kit helps but is secondary.
If you go into any outdoor shop you will see tons of "light weight" and "essential" items that look useful, and have a good writeup but really aren't any good for anything but car camping.
So do you let people find out the hard way, or do you tell them before they go out and have a miserable time?
Rhetorical question actually. Hard way every time! '
In reply to Andy Say:
If camping on someone's land is trespass, doesn't that make it illegal given that trespass is an offence in English law?
If camping on someone's land is trespass, doesn't that make it illegal given that trespass is an offence in English law?
In reply to Welsh Kate:
Doesn't the law of trespass come down to damages in the civil law? i.e. it's not, in itself, a criminal offence. 'Trespassers will be prosecuted' it famously incorrect.
Doesn't the law of trespass come down to damages in the civil law? i.e. it's not, in itself, a criminal offence. 'Trespassers will be prosecuted' it famously incorrect.
In reply to Gordon Stainforth:
I'm not a lawyer... but I do know that trespass is a civil offence regardless of whether any damage is done to property - the "get orf my land" response. This is why landowners can require wildcampers / wild campers (the latter sounds a bit worrying, I'm not that wild when I'm camping ) to move on from their land.
I'm not a lawyer... but I do know that trespass is a civil offence regardless of whether any damage is done to property - the "get orf my land" response. This is why landowners can require wildcampers / wild campers (the latter sounds a bit worrying, I'm not that wild when I'm camping ) to move on from their land.
In reply to henwardian:
Arithmetic is a rubbish analogy. There is no such thing as "wild camping ability". It is just the same as camping in a campsite except you get your water from a river rather than a tap and crap in a different sort of bog - not exactly complicated (in fact less so).
> I can do mental arithmetic pretty fast, it always suprises me a bit when other people just can't do it at all and need a calculator...... ......Nobody is born with any wild camping abilities.
Arithmetic is a rubbish analogy. There is no such thing as "wild camping ability". It is just the same as camping in a campsite except you get your water from a river rather than a tap and crap in a different sort of bog - not exactly complicated (in fact less so).
In reply to Welsh Kate:
IANAL; I think it is a civil matter either way, but being a civil matter you a) can't be prosecuted, only sued, and b) people can only sue you for damages. So if you haven't damaged anything, what are they going to sue for in court?
My understanding is that in many parts of the country it is semi-officially tolerated - see http://www.lakedistrict.gov.uk/visiting/wheretostay/wildcamping and note that that's a .gov.uk link!
IANAL; I think it is a civil matter either way, but being a civil matter you a) can't be prosecuted, only sued, and b) people can only sue you for damages. So if you haven't damaged anything, what are they going to sue for in court?
My understanding is that in many parts of the country it is semi-officially tolerated - see http://www.lakedistrict.gov.uk/visiting/wheretostay/wildcamping and note that that's a .gov.uk link!
In reply to Robert Durran:
That's nothing. I'm going wildfaroutallalonefundamentallycrazycamping this weekend.
> Oh God no! Not all one word please. It is bad enough as two!
That's nothing. I'm going wildfaroutallalonefundamentallycrazycamping this weekend.
In reply to climbwhenready:
Indeed - but trespass is still 'against the law' even if it is civil law we're dealing with. The thread was started to talk about why so many people asked questions about wild camping, so we're dealing with perceptions rather than realities. And I think some people are nervous about the activity because of the legal issues, no matter how minor they are in reality, and the perception that some farmer's going to come up with a shotgun (or is that shot gun or shot-gun?) and order them to 'get orf my land'.
Indeed - but trespass is still 'against the law' even if it is civil law we're dealing with. The thread was started to talk about why so many people asked questions about wild camping, so we're dealing with perceptions rather than realities. And I think some people are nervous about the activity because of the legal issues, no matter how minor they are in reality, and the perception that some farmer's going to come up with a shotgun (or is that shot gun or shot-gun?) and order them to 'get orf my land'.
In reply to pasbury:
Trespass is a civil matter. (There are some exceptions to this such as trespass on railway or MOD property etc., )
However, if in your trespass you break the law in some other additional way, for example, to shoot a bird, pick mushrooms or any other similar stuff, you are then committing an illegal act. Shooting a bird on someone's land is called poaching and taking stuff off land you don't have permission to remove the said object from is theft. Walking all over a farmers crop of corn/barley etc., is criminal damage.
Trespass is a civil matter. (There are some exceptions to this such as trespass on railway or MOD property etc., )
However, if in your trespass you break the law in some other additional way, for example, to shoot a bird, pick mushrooms or any other similar stuff, you are then committing an illegal act. Shooting a bird on someone's land is called poaching and taking stuff off land you don't have permission to remove the said object from is theft. Walking all over a farmers crop of corn/barley etc., is criminal damage.
In reply to pasbury:
The only thing I find slightly strange is those who decide post the trials and tribulations of a novice camper on sites that will have a preponderance of experienced to expert campers who are unlikely to be very interested, entertained or in the least concerned that the novice found it mildly uncomfortable. ( to the risk of their life
The only thing I find slightly strange is those who decide post the trials and tribulations of a novice camper on sites that will have a preponderance of experienced to expert campers who are unlikely to be very interested, entertained or in the least concerned that the novice found it mildly uncomfortable. ( to the risk of their life
In reply to Robert Durran:
Really, no difference at all?
Wow for a newbie like me that's reassuring. So I can crack on and camp, not really worrying about the likely conditions as I can bail out and dive in the car if it gets wet/scary/uncomfortable?
And thank goodness there is no difference in any of the risks, such as fire, water suitability, pitch selection, or those unfounded and illogical nightime darkness terrors that I might get.
Brilliant, thanks for the clarification on that, don't know why I ever worried!
> There is no such thing as "wild camping ability". It is just the same as camping in a campsite except you get your water from a river rather than a tap and crap in a different sort of bog - not exactly complicated (in fact less so).
Really, no difference at all?
Wow for a newbie like me that's reassuring. So I can crack on and camp, not really worrying about the likely conditions as I can bail out and dive in the car if it gets wet/scary/uncomfortable?
And thank goodness there is no difference in any of the risks, such as fire, water suitability, pitch selection, or those unfounded and illogical nightime darkness terrors that I might get.
Brilliant, thanks for the clarification on that, don't know why I ever worried!
Post edited at 20:55
In reply to davidbeynon:
Also a matter of choice? If I decide I am fit enough to walk 60K and still carry my book, radio, ipod, trangia, spare trangia, thermarest (XXL), synthetic, but cheap sleeping bag, hip flask, 4 pack of Special Brew etc etc, its a decision I take not lack of experience?
Maybe those who ask perfectly reasonable questions on here and get some helpful and some unhelpful answers just use the info to make their own decisions to learn, sorry I mean "experience"!
> "As light as possible" is a matter of experience as well though isn't it?
Also a matter of choice? If I decide I am fit enough to walk 60K and still carry my book, radio, ipod, trangia, spare trangia, thermarest (XXL), synthetic, but cheap sleeping bag, hip flask, 4 pack of Special Brew etc etc, its a decision I take not lack of experience?
Maybe those who ask perfectly reasonable questions on here and get some helpful and some unhelpful answers just use the info to make their own decisions to learn, sorry I mean "experience"!
In reply to Wainers44:
There's certainly an element of that. If I go out for a night or I know I'm going to be on easy ground then extra luxuries go in.
Special brew wouldn't be one of them though! Maybe a sterilised platypus bottle full of red wine.
Taking real food to cook for the first day of a multi day trip is often a good idea as well.
A really good idea would be to stop complaining about comments that weren't directed at you, especially when written by people who used to sympathise with your point of view. Maybe spend the time wild camping with your ipod instead?
There's certainly an element of that. If I go out for a night or I know I'm going to be on easy ground then extra luxuries go in.
Special brew wouldn't be one of them though! Maybe a sterilised platypus bottle full of red wine.
Taking real food to cook for the first day of a multi day trip is often a good idea as well.
A really good idea would be to stop complaining about comments that weren't directed at you, especially when written by people who used to sympathise with your point of view. Maybe spend the time wild camping with your ipod instead?
Post edited at 21:10
In reply to Robert Durran:
If we are talking crap then - you are talking 'Crap'. There is an initial enormous learning curve as you learn what to take / what to leave / how to pack / how to make no mess / how to cook / how to choose a site.
Agreed it's not 'ability' but it is 'knowledge/skill'.
But I would suggest that the one thing we don't do is swap 'great wild sites' an any public forum.
> (In reply to henwardian)
>
> [...]
>
> There is no such thing as "wild camping ability". It is just the same as camping in a campsite except you get your water from a river rather than a tap and crap in a different sort of bog - not exactly complicated (in fact less so).
>
> [...]
>
> There is no such thing as "wild camping ability". It is just the same as camping in a campsite except you get your water from a river rather than a tap and crap in a different sort of bog - not exactly complicated (in fact less so).
If we are talking crap then - you are talking 'Crap'. There is an initial enormous learning curve as you learn what to take / what to leave / how to pack / how to make no mess / how to cook / how to choose a site.
Agreed it's not 'ability' but it is 'knowledge/skill'.
But I would suggest that the one thing we don't do is swap 'great wild sites' an any public forum.
Post edited at 21:17
In reply to Gordon Stainforth:
i think the difference is camping involves a tent you could sleep 24 in, and each of there cars, whereas wild camping allows you too ditch all your stuff in the layby and set fire to it after.
You are obviously from the generation where you just did stuff and it didn't have to be a 'challenge'.
Also, as somone else said in here, the likes of Trail cater for the masses and thats the kind of tripe they print every month.
i think the difference is camping involves a tent you could sleep 24 in, and each of there cars, whereas wild camping allows you too ditch all your stuff in the layby and set fire to it after.
You are obviously from the generation where you just did stuff and it didn't have to be a 'challenge'.
Also, as somone else said in here, the likes of Trail cater for the masses and thats the kind of tripe they print every month.
In reply to andyathome:
"How to shit in the woods" is still the best resource for the crap question, the what crap to carry question is always a bit too contingent on conditions for blanket advice.
"How to shit in the woods" is still the best resource for the crap question, the what crap to carry question is always a bit too contingent on conditions for blanket advice.
In reply to davidbeynon:
The food is one of those key choices for me. Cooking (real food not sawdust) is one of the biggest pleasures and if that's denied to me because of my route/fitness/time constraint then one of those have to change not the food choice!
I was surprised to see some very learned people on here saying there is nothing to "learn" on this topic. I look at the answers to these camping questions because I am always keen to learn of anything that might make my camping, wild or otherwise, even more enjoyable!
The food is one of those key choices for me. Cooking (real food not sawdust) is one of the biggest pleasures and if that's denied to me because of my route/fitness/time constraint then one of those have to change not the food choice!
I was surprised to see some very learned people on here saying there is nothing to "learn" on this topic. I look at the answers to these camping questions because I am always keen to learn of anything that might make my camping, wild or otherwise, even more enjoyable!
In reply to Wainers44:
I was saying the opposite. The trouble isn't that there is nothing to learn, but that there are a million contradictory sources of information and it's not easy to teach. There are as many opinions on what you need and what constitutes a good camp spot as there are people.
Much easier to say how not to do it, but it all sounds obvious. Such as "Don't forget to pick up your pegs when you strike camp".
What idiot would do that? you ask yourself.
Er. Guilty.
http://www.spectral3d.co.uk/Personal/pics/2014/mullardoch/mullardoch/dsc_55...
I was saying the opposite. The trouble isn't that there is nothing to learn, but that there are a million contradictory sources of information and it's not easy to teach. There are as many opinions on what you need and what constitutes a good camp spot as there are people.
Much easier to say how not to do it, but it all sounds obvious. Such as "Don't forget to pick up your pegs when you strike camp".
What idiot would do that? you ask yourself.
Er. Guilty.
http://www.spectral3d.co.uk/Personal/pics/2014/mullardoch/mullardoch/dsc_55...
In reply to davidbeynon:
Apologies, didn't realise that putting another point of view which wasnt really opposite to yours, just a bit different, would be considered "complaining. Ah well.
> A really good idea would be to stop complaining about comments that weren't directed at you....
Apologies, didn't realise that putting another point of view which wasnt really opposite to yours, just a bit different, would be considered "complaining. Ah well.
In reply to Wainers44:
A. I'm with you on the food. A wee bag of fresh veg and some herbs/garlic/olive oil to 'develop' your meal can just make a night out.
B. Don't assume that anyone on here is 'learned' in whatever they express an opinion on.
> (In reply to davidbeynon)
>
> The food is one of those key choices for me. Cooking (real food not sawdust) is one of the biggest pleasures
>
> I was surprised to see some very learned people on here saying there is nothing to "learn" on this topic.
>
> The food is one of those key choices for me. Cooking (real food not sawdust) is one of the biggest pleasures
>
> I was surprised to see some very learned people on here saying there is nothing to "learn" on this topic.
A. I'm with you on the food. A wee bag of fresh veg and some herbs/garlic/olive oil to 'develop' your meal can just make a night out.
B. Don't assume that anyone on here is 'learned' in whatever they express an opinion on.
In reply to Wainers44:
Sorry about that. It's hard to get the tone of things on the internet, and I was a bit pissed off as I had just burned myself cooking so inclined to take it the wrong way.
Sorry about that. It's hard to get the tone of things on the internet, and I was a bit pissed off as I had just burned myself cooking so inclined to take it the wrong way.
In reply to andyathome:
A dehydrator has seriously improved the quality of my backpacking food recently. They are a bit bulky and faffy but you can get some really good results.
A dehydrator has seriously improved the quality of my backpacking food recently. They are a bit bulky and faffy but you can get some really good results.
In reply to andyathome:
I was talking about camping, not necessarily with the added dimension of backpacking (which does require more knowledge/experience). If I ever use the horrible term "wild camping" it is simply to denote that I was not paying to stay in an official campsite (to which my wallet has a strong aversion) and would in fact more often than not be roadside with a car.
> If we are talking crap then - you are talking 'Crap'. There is an initial enormous learning curve as you learn what to take / what to leave / how to pack / how to make no mess / how to cook / how to choose a site.
I was talking about camping, not necessarily with the added dimension of backpacking (which does require more knowledge/experience). If I ever use the horrible term "wild camping" it is simply to denote that I was not paying to stay in an official campsite (to which my wallet has a strong aversion) and would in fact more often than not be roadside with a car.
In reply to davidbeynon:
I was a bit pissed off as I had just burned myself cooking ...
now if you had been using one of those nice self heating wayfarer meals that wouldn't have happened would it......
I was a bit pissed off as I had just burned myself cooking ...
now if you had been using one of those nice self heating wayfarer meals that wouldn't have happened would it......
In reply to Robert Durran:
What you are referring to is 'dossing'. You are a 'dosser'. Otherwise known as 'kipping in ditches'.
Spare me from the idea that 'wild camping' is putting up a tent in a lay-by on the A6.
> If I ever use the horrible term "wild camping" it is simply to denote that I was not paying to stay in an official campsite (to which my wallet has a strong aversion) and would in fact more often than not be roadside with a car.
What you are referring to is 'dossing'. You are a 'dosser'. Otherwise known as 'kipping in ditches'.
Spare me from the idea that 'wild camping' is putting up a tent in a lay-by on the A6.
In reply to davidbeynon:
....and what idiot would fail to check that they have taken the pegs in the first place, or that the poles in the bag are the right ones for the rest of the tent in the same bag?
...the idiot that never does either of these things again!
....and what idiot would fail to check that they have taken the pegs in the first place, or that the poles in the bag are the right ones for the rest of the tent in the same bag?
...the idiot that never does either of these things again!
In reply to andyathome:
Indeed. I would much rather doss than pay £10 or more for stuff I don't need like a tap.
Well, if what you mean is backpacking why not just say so?
> What you are referring to is 'dossing'. You are a 'dosser'.
Indeed. I would much rather doss than pay £10 or more for stuff I don't need like a tap.
> Spare me from the idea that 'wild camping' is putting up a tent in a lay-by on the A6.
Well, if what you mean is backpacking why not just say so?
Post edited at 22:14
In reply to pasbury:
It's at least good that people are posting questions about wild camping on a forum to try and learn the ropes rather than going out and trying to figure it out for themselves. There are quite a few factors to cover that a novice may not be aware of. Is it appropriate to build a fire, human waste and rubbish disposal, safe water sources, respecting farmers land and wild/farmyard animals, leaving details of where you are going with family/friends etc. I often like to 'wild camp' - AKA camping not far but hidden from the roadside in scotland. This is normally just to allow me access to the mountains without having to stay in a camp site. You need to fire to keep the midge away (not allowed any fires at scottish camp sites). If you're not doing a 3 hr walk-in to the wilderness then isolated roadside spots which fit all the requirements are not so easy to find and there is a very active community of people on the internet that share info about these spots.
It's at least good that people are posting questions about wild camping on a forum to try and learn the ropes rather than going out and trying to figure it out for themselves. There are quite a few factors to cover that a novice may not be aware of. Is it appropriate to build a fire, human waste and rubbish disposal, safe water sources, respecting farmers land and wild/farmyard animals, leaving details of where you are going with family/friends etc. I often like to 'wild camp' - AKA camping not far but hidden from the roadside in scotland. This is normally just to allow me access to the mountains without having to stay in a camp site. You need to fire to keep the midge away (not allowed any fires at scottish camp sites). If you're not doing a 3 hr walk-in to the wilderness then isolated roadside spots which fit all the requirements are not so easy to find and there is a very active community of people on the internet that share info about these spots.
In reply to Wainers44:
Do they do self heating roast spuds?
Technology marches on!
> now if you had been using one of those nice self heating wayfarer meals that wouldn't have happened would it......
Do they do self heating roast spuds?
Technology marches on!
In reply to Robert Durran:
All depends what you mean by 'backpacking', and its clear that different people use these words to mean different things
'Backpacking' to me implies multiple nights in the tent, where walking from one camp to the next is the main purpose of the trip. A form of trekking, which is broader, because not all trekking is backpacking.
I wouldn't count pitching the tent for the night beside a road as wild camping, largely because its not very wild (well, it could be depending on the road, but not in a good way...)
Overall, This sounds like a case of language getting in the way of communication rather than enabling it...
All depends what you mean by 'backpacking', and its clear that different people use these words to mean different things
'Backpacking' to me implies multiple nights in the tent, where walking from one camp to the next is the main purpose of the trip. A form of trekking, which is broader, because not all trekking is backpacking.
I wouldn't count pitching the tent for the night beside a road as wild camping, largely because its not very wild (well, it could be depending on the road, but not in a good way...)
Overall, This sounds like a case of language getting in the way of communication rather than enabling it...
In reply to no_more_scotch_eggs:
So two days walking with one night camping is not backpacking, but three days walking with two nights camping is. Oddly arbitrary.
Backpacking means just that: you carry everything you need on your back ie self sufficiency. All this angst about "wild camping" seems to be entirely about just that - the self sufficiency of backpacking.
> All depends what you mean by 'backpacking'.......'Backpacking' to me implies multiple nights in the tent.
So two days walking with one night camping is not backpacking, but three days walking with two nights camping is. Oddly arbitrary.
Backpacking means just that: you carry everything you need on your back ie self sufficiency. All this angst about "wild camping" seems to be entirely about just that - the self sufficiency of backpacking.
In reply to Robert Durran:
To me backpacking means actually putting in some distance with the tent. The number of nights doesn't matter so much.
To me backpacking means actually putting in some distance with the tent. The number of nights doesn't matter so much.
In reply to pasbury:
From experience:
1 Never pitch a tent in a hollow or on boggy land - it will fill with water.
2 Don't sleep in a survival bag underneath pine trees - you will sink through the dead pine needles, 'find' a small stream which will slowly fill your survival bag with water, only waking you up just before you drown.
3 Dig a hole before you crap - filling it in afterwards. Alternatively, crap into a plastic bag and take it with you.
4 Don't leave any evidence you've been there (no fires, rubbish etc).
5 Choose a spot out of sight and nobody will know (or care) you're there (no fires).
6 If it's taken you 3 hours to walk from the nearest road to where you want to camp, and you're on a mountainside where you can't see any house, car or street lights - you're probably not going to upset anyone.
7 If hitchhiking and want to stay close to a road, roundabouts with sufficient undergrowth to hide your position can be ideal (even in town centres).
8 Take a toilet roll as a matter of priority, keeping it dry in a freezer bag - never crap into this plastic bag before removing the toilet paper.
9 Always have a means of making a hot drink in the morning.
10 Cans are much lighter to carry off the mountain than bottles.
From experience:
1 Never pitch a tent in a hollow or on boggy land - it will fill with water.
2 Don't sleep in a survival bag underneath pine trees - you will sink through the dead pine needles, 'find' a small stream which will slowly fill your survival bag with water, only waking you up just before you drown.
3 Dig a hole before you crap - filling it in afterwards. Alternatively, crap into a plastic bag and take it with you.
4 Don't leave any evidence you've been there (no fires, rubbish etc).
5 Choose a spot out of sight and nobody will know (or care) you're there (no fires).
6 If it's taken you 3 hours to walk from the nearest road to where you want to camp, and you're on a mountainside where you can't see any house, car or street lights - you're probably not going to upset anyone.
7 If hitchhiking and want to stay close to a road, roundabouts with sufficient undergrowth to hide your position can be ideal (even in town centres).
8 Take a toilet roll as a matter of priority, keeping it dry in a freezer bag - never crap into this plastic bag before removing the toilet paper.
9 Always have a means of making a hot drink in the morning.
10 Cans are much lighter to carry off the mountain than bottles.
Post edited at 11:27
In reply to wme:
>
I always take my whiskey in an old plastic water bottle. After the whiskey has been guzzled crush the bottle and replace the cap, then carry out a light, flat vacuum packed piece of plastic for recycling...hic
> From experience:
>
> 10 Cans are much lighter to carry off the mountain than bottles.
I always take my whiskey in an old plastic water bottle. After the whiskey has been guzzled crush the bottle and replace the cap, then carry out a light, flat vacuum packed piece of plastic for recycling...hic
In reply to Robert Durran:
no, not about the number of nights, more the focus of the activity.
going a couple of hours away from the road, pitching the tent for a few days and dossing about/reading/fishing- wild camping
setting off with means to be self sufficient and walking from one place to another over a few days (or in a circuit)- backpacking
pitching the tent in a layby in glen etive - not wild camping
but those are just my definitions, no more than that, and i'm sure it would be easy to come up with some proposed itinerary that would blur the edges of them...
cheers
gregor
> (In reply to no_more_scotch_eggs)
>
> [...]
>
> So two days walking with one night camping is not backpacking, but three days walking with two nights camping is. Oddly arbitrary.
>
> Backpacking means just that: you carry everything you need on your back ie self sufficiency. All this angst about "wild camping" seems to be entirely about just that - the self sufficiency of backpacking.
>
> [...]
>
> So two days walking with one night camping is not backpacking, but three days walking with two nights camping is. Oddly arbitrary.
>
> Backpacking means just that: you carry everything you need on your back ie self sufficiency. All this angst about "wild camping" seems to be entirely about just that - the self sufficiency of backpacking.
no, not about the number of nights, more the focus of the activity.
going a couple of hours away from the road, pitching the tent for a few days and dossing about/reading/fishing- wild camping
setting off with means to be self sufficient and walking from one place to another over a few days (or in a circuit)- backpacking
pitching the tent in a layby in glen etive - not wild camping
but those are just my definitions, no more than that, and i'm sure it would be easy to come up with some proposed itinerary that would blur the edges of them...
cheers
gregor
In reply to no_more_scotch_eggs:
In the end it's all just camping. You take what you need or want and if you are carrying everything you think more carefully about what you need. It really isn't all that complicated. The introduction of the dramatic term "wild camping" just makes it sound all more complicated than it really is; everyone always got on perfectly well without it before.
> But those are just my definitions, no more than that.
In the end it's all just camping. You take what you need or want and if you are carrying everything you think more carefully about what you need. It really isn't all that complicated. The introduction of the dramatic term "wild camping" just makes it sound all more complicated than it really is; everyone always got on perfectly well without it before.
In reply to wme:
or below the high water mark!
Best dig the hole in advance of any pressing need, especailly if the need is likely to arise in the night / rain. Much easier to dig into exposed turf in a peat hag than try to dig through the surface foliage. Also gives you 'modesty cover'.
or pitch late and strike early
Don't agree with this!
Another whisky in plastic bottles man!
11 Aside from freezing conditions, keep your drinking bladder in the tent porch, feed the sucking tube through the doorway and clip the mouth piece off the ground.
12 Lay out your tent on the ground before pitching, lie on it and see if its too lumpy / sloping etc
13 Dry flat ground can be at a premium in Scotland: do not assume that flat ground on the map will be suitable for pitching, though more likely it will be if high up (above 600m)
> From experience:
> 1 Never pitch a tent in a hollow or on boggy land - it will fill with water.
or below the high water mark!
> 3 Dig a hole before you crap - filling it in afterwards. Alternatively, crap into a plastic bag and take it with you.
Best dig the hole in advance of any pressing need, especailly if the need is likely to arise in the night / rain. Much easier to dig into exposed turf in a peat hag than try to dig through the surface foliage. Also gives you 'modesty cover'.
> 5 Choose a spot out of sight and nobody will know (or care) you're there (no fires).
or pitch late and strike early
> 9 Always have a means of making a hot drink in the morning.
Don't agree with this!
> 10 Cans are much lighter to carry off the mountain than bottles.
Another whisky in plastic bottles man!
11 Aside from freezing conditions, keep your drinking bladder in the tent porch, feed the sucking tube through the doorway and clip the mouth piece off the ground.
12 Lay out your tent on the ground before pitching, lie on it and see if its too lumpy / sloping etc
13 Dry flat ground can be at a premium in Scotland: do not assume that flat ground on the map will be suitable for pitching, though more likely it will be if high up (above 600m)
Post edited at 14:56
In reply to Robert Durran:
But isn't the wonderful thing about language that for every piece of unnecessary prolixity (I'll see you tomorrow > I'll see you tomorrow going forward; I said > I was like) there's an equal and opposite contraction (I laughed out loud > I lolled; President Bush > Bush)?
> The introduction of the dramatic term "wild camping" just makes it sound all more complicated than it really is; everyone always got on perfectly well without it before.
But isn't the wonderful thing about language that for every piece of unnecessary prolixity (I'll see you tomorrow > I'll see you tomorrow going forward; I said > I was like) there's an equal and opposite contraction (I laughed out loud > I lolled; President Bush > Bush)?
In reply to Robert Durran:
However you choose to define "backpacking", "wild camping", "dossing" etc., it is always going to be a continuum with blurred boundaries. I wonder whether the unnecessary term "wild camping" was insidiously introduced by the outdoor industry - put a "rad" label on an activity which everyone was already doing anyway, fuel loads of angst about it (see UKC) and you can market loads of unnecessary gear for it, relieving the impressionable of their money. I think it is this suspicion that makes me hate the term so vehemently. The term "wild swimming" is equally loathesome......
> In the end it's all just camping.
However you choose to define "backpacking", "wild camping", "dossing" etc., it is always going to be a continuum with blurred boundaries. I wonder whether the unnecessary term "wild camping" was insidiously introduced by the outdoor industry - put a "rad" label on an activity which everyone was already doing anyway, fuel loads of angst about it (see UKC) and you can market loads of unnecessary gear for it, relieving the impressionable of their money. I think it is this suspicion that makes me hate the term so vehemently. The term "wild swimming" is equally loathesome......
Post edited at 15:24
In reply to Robert Durran:
I think it's just one of those terms that came in at the same time as "multi-pitch climbing", i.e. a term that a more cosseted generation chose for itself.
I think it's just one of those terms that came in at the same time as "multi-pitch climbing", i.e. a term that a more cosseted generation chose for itself.
In reply to Robert Durran:
no, i agree its not complicated, but i think there is some usefulness in defining different types of camping. the experiences of taking the family in a big family tent to an organised campsite where it will be pitched next to the car and just along from the table tennis room and laundry is a world away from walking alone into fisherfield in february with a weeks worth of food and fuel. but both are 'camping'; and a further term to more precisely describe the type of camping doesnt seem an excessive use of language.
'backpacking' has different connotations to me- involving a journey, rather than just the sleeping arrangements.
as long as everyone is clear whats being talked about, its not a big deal though,
cheers
gregor
> (In reply to no_more_scotch_eggs)
>
> [...]
>
> In the end it's all just camping. You take what you need or want and if you are carrying everything you think more carefully about what you need. It really isn't all that complicated. The introduction of the dramatic term "wild camping" just makes it sound all more complicated than it really is; everyone always got on perfectly well without it before.
>
> [...]
>
> In the end it's all just camping. You take what you need or want and if you are carrying everything you think more carefully about what you need. It really isn't all that complicated. The introduction of the dramatic term "wild camping" just makes it sound all more complicated than it really is; everyone always got on perfectly well without it before.
no, i agree its not complicated, but i think there is some usefulness in defining different types of camping. the experiences of taking the family in a big family tent to an organised campsite where it will be pitched next to the car and just along from the table tennis room and laundry is a world away from walking alone into fisherfield in february with a weeks worth of food and fuel. but both are 'camping'; and a further term to more precisely describe the type of camping doesnt seem an excessive use of language.
'backpacking' has different connotations to me- involving a journey, rather than just the sleeping arrangements.
as long as everyone is clear whats being talked about, its not a big deal though,
cheers
gregor
In reply to Robert Durran:
Equally, it could be that you think of it yourself as "wild camping" and a part of you hates yourself for doing so, as you know the stories of the retreat from Moscow in 1941 etc, etc, and know that however wild it's been, a forced bivi on the Dru's N Face or whatever, it's really not that wild compared with being eaten alive by wolves with your leg frozen to a tank barrel or any other scenario from a Sven Hassell novel. Quite naturally, you externalise this loathing and get all het up at others using the term.
Equally, it could be that you think of it yourself as "wild camping" and a part of you hates yourself for doing so, as you know the stories of the retreat from Moscow in 1941 etc, etc, and know that however wild it's been, a forced bivi on the Dru's N Face or whatever, it's really not that wild compared with being eaten alive by wolves with your leg frozen to a tank barrel or any other scenario from a Sven Hassell novel. Quite naturally, you externalise this loathing and get all het up at others using the term.
In reply to felt:
Eh....no. I just think of it as normal camping; that is "camping". As I admitted earlier, if I catch myself using the term (and I do indeed hate myself for it when I do) it is to denote roadside car camping to avoid the extortionate fees, proximity to other people and unwanted facilities of official campsites.
> Equally, it could be that you think of it yourself as "wild camping"...
Eh....no. I just think of it as normal camping; that is "camping". As I admitted earlier, if I catch myself using the term (and I do indeed hate myself for it when I do) it is to denote roadside car camping to avoid the extortionate fees, proximity to other people and unwanted facilities of official campsites.
Post edited at 16:18
In reply to Robert Durran:
Everyone...? Really?
I'd suggest it's simply a means to distinguish the far more common activity of camping on a commercial campsite*, with a range of facilities, to camping at a random place of your choosing in the countryside, with no man-made facilities. I don't think it's any great conspiracy, and is a fairly sensible name.
* which brings us the glamping...
Maybe all the questions are as a result of all the articles in the Guardian...
https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=guardian+wild+camping
> I wonder whether the unnecessary term "wild camping" was insidiously introduced by the outdoor industry - put a "rad" label on an activity which everyone was already doing anyway,
Everyone...? Really?
I'd suggest it's simply a means to distinguish the far more common activity of camping on a commercial campsite*, with a range of facilities, to camping at a random place of your choosing in the countryside, with no man-made facilities. I don't think it's any great conspiracy, and is a fairly sensible name.
* which brings us the glamping...
Maybe all the questions are as a result of all the articles in the Guardian...
https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=guardian+wild+camping
In reply to pasbury:
Maybe a UKH wild camping/backpacking basics article would be in order. I might write one if I can find the time.
Maybe a UKH wild camping/backpacking basics article would be in order. I might write one if I can find the time.
In reply to davidbeynon:
Were you aware of this?: http://www.ukhillwalking.com/articles/page.php?id=4731
Were you aware of this?: http://www.ukhillwalking.com/articles/page.php?id=4731
In reply to captain paranoia:
I might concede that this is wild camping:
http://www.alpinejournal.org.uk/Contents/Contents_2003_files/AJ%202003%2021...
I might concede that this is wild camping:
http://www.alpinejournal.org.uk/Contents/Contents_2003_files/AJ%202003%2021...
In reply to pasbury:
The old paper ML logbook (but not, I think, the electronic version) had a column for camping. You'd put a W for Wild and a V for Valley. IIRC Valley meant a proper campsite with facilities, Wild meant not a proper campsite (even if you were in a valley). The fact that you'd carried your tent in your backpack all day (or longer) was neither here nor there.
Definitions get a bit clouded.
The old paper ML logbook (but not, I think, the electronic version) had a column for camping. You'd put a W for Wild and a V for Valley. IIRC Valley meant a proper campsite with facilities, Wild meant not a proper campsite (even if you were in a valley). The fact that you'd carried your tent in your backpack all day (or longer) was neither here nor there.
Definitions get a bit clouded.
In reply to Robert Durran:
No that's just a sloping pitch, with a bit of snow. Anyway the photo is obviously tilted
No that's just a sloping pitch, with a bit of snow. Anyway the photo is obviously tilted
In reply to knthrak1982:
Aha! It's those venal bastards at the MLTB who are to blame, eh? I knew it would be some money-grabbing conspiracy...
To paraphrase David...
'I wonder whether the unnecessary term "wild camping" was insidiously introduced by the outdoor training industry - put a "rad" label on an activity which everyone was already doing anyway, fuel loads of angst about it (see UKC) and you can market loads of unnecessary courses and qualifications for it, relieving the impressionable of their money.'
p.s. I'm employing sarcasm here (even if there is an element of truth in the jest)
Anyone for 'mild camping'?
> The old paper ML logbook (but not, I think, the electronic version) had a column for camping. You'd put a W for Wild and a V for Valley. IIRC Valley meant a proper campsite with facilities, Wild meant not a proper campsite (even if you were in a valley)
Aha! It's those venal bastards at the MLTB who are to blame, eh? I knew it would be some money-grabbing conspiracy...
To paraphrase David...
'I wonder whether the unnecessary term "wild camping" was insidiously introduced by the outdoor training industry - put a "rad" label on an activity which everyone was already doing anyway, fuel loads of angst about it (see UKC) and you can market loads of unnecessary courses and qualifications for it, relieving the impressionable of their money.'
p.s. I'm employing sarcasm here (even if there is an element of truth in the jest)
Anyone for 'mild camping'?
In reply to captain paranoia:
You are probably right. It is actually most likely a conspiracy between the gear manufacturers and the likes of Plas y Brenin. The Wild camping instructors will all be dressed in freeby £500 jackets which are clearly necessary if you ever venture more than 100m from the road with your tent.
This sort of thing clearly goes on........
> 'I wonder whether the unnecessary term "wild camping" was insidiously introduced by the outdoor training industry - put a "rad" label on an activity which everyone was already doing anyway, fuel loads of angst about it (see UKC) and you can market loads of unnecessary courses and qualifications for it, relieving the impressionable of their money.'
> p.s. I'm employing sarcasm here (even if there is an element of truth in the jest)
You are probably right. It is actually most likely a conspiracy between the gear manufacturers and the likes of Plas y Brenin. The Wild camping instructors will all be dressed in freeby £500 jackets which are clearly necessary if you ever venture more than 100m from the road with your tent.
This sort of thing clearly goes on........
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