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I have recently been on a route where the gear was sparse and the cam next to my foot was likely (in my mind at the time) to pop out on a fall which would have resulted in a deck. I was not too high off the ground but high enough to potentially break and ankle or the like.
At this point after fiddling with gear to try to get something else in, and failing, I was met with a decision to either continue without protection or ask for rescue.
I flapped for so long both calves had major cramp, I have never had such stabbing pain in them and my forearms were pretty pumped.
I didn't feel confident enough to continue, even though it looked simple the route so far had been pretty sneaky and had been harder than it looked. I asked for rescue (thanks Dave).
Of course once I had clipped in to the lowered rope I skipped on up without a problem but had to massage my calves for a bit before I was useful again.
Have people been in this situation? What are people's thoughts on a VS/HVS rescue!? (oh dear.....I'm prepared for the worst).
At this point after fiddling with gear to try to get something else in, and failing, I was met with a decision to either continue without protection or ask for rescue.
I flapped for so long both calves had major cramp, I have never had such stabbing pain in them and my forearms were pretty pumped.
I didn't feel confident enough to continue, even though it looked simple the route so far had been pretty sneaky and had been harder than it looked. I asked for rescue (thanks Dave).
Of course once I had clipped in to the lowered rope I skipped on up without a problem but had to massage my calves for a bit before I was useful again.
Have people been in this situation? What are people's thoughts on a VS/HVS rescue!? (oh dear.....I'm prepared for the worst).
In reply to Beth-Cath-T:
Absolutely fine once in a while. Most people have done this and it's much better than breaking yourself falling off. A lot of time backing off a route can be done by downclimbing but sometimes you need a rope.
Absolutely fine once in a while. Most people have done this and it's much better than breaking yourself falling off. A lot of time backing off a route can be done by downclimbing but sometimes you need a rope.
In reply to Beth-Cath-T:
I would have thought the majority of us have been there and got the T shirt. The grade is immaterial.
I would have thought the majority of us have been there and got the T shirt. The grade is immaterial.
In reply to Beth-Cath-T:
Yep. Technical Slab (HS) at The Roaches, and Three Pebble Slab (HVS) at Froggatt (the latter was almost a self-fulfilling prophecy).
It happens. And as someone said, grade is immaterial.
Yep. Technical Slab (HS) at The Roaches, and Three Pebble Slab (HVS) at Froggatt (the latter was almost a self-fulfilling prophecy).
It happens. And as someone said, grade is immaterial.
In reply to Beth-Cath-T:
I have had the rope of life lowered to me a few times, a couple of times by mates, who really and I mean really take the piss out of me, and they can climb to a very high standard, you know what the rescues are never ever mentioned, no piss taking, because they have been there to.
There is no shame in the rope of life.
I have had the rope of life lowered to me a few times, a couple of times by mates, who really and I mean really take the piss out of me, and they can climb to a very high standard, you know what the rescues are never ever mentioned, no piss taking, because they have been there to.
There is no shame in the rope of life.
In reply to Beth-Cath-T:
I've backed off climbs before, having gotten partway up and decided this wasn't my day to shine, and carefully down climbed (most apparent in my mind was a humbling experience on a HS 10 months ago). I've also shamelessly switched to aiding part way up many times. Hopefully the day I get really stuck there will be a Dave around to help! (And, any time I can render assistance to someone, I happily will. Helping people is just as fun as climbing.)
I've backed off climbs before, having gotten partway up and decided this wasn't my day to shine, and carefully down climbed (most apparent in my mind was a humbling experience on a HS 10 months ago). I've also shamelessly switched to aiding part way up many times. Hopefully the day I get really stuck there will be a Dave around to help! (And, any time I can render assistance to someone, I happily will. Helping people is just as fun as climbing.)
In reply to Beth-Cath-T:
Great Slab at Froggatt sees a good many rescues. Fortunately, there is a good ledge just before the crux so the poor sole can look like they are trying the route for quite a while before conceding defeat.
Great Slab at Froggatt sees a good many rescues. Fortunately, there is a good ledge just before the crux so the poor sole can look like they are trying the route for quite a while before conceding defeat.
In reply to ByEek:
But there's a time and a plaice for everything*
*NOTE, This worn-out pun must have appeared at least 80 times on UKC. Thank you.
To the OP, absolutely no shame calling for help (regardless of grade as others said). Far better to call than risk injury or worse.
> ...the poor sole can look like they are trying the route for quite a while before conceding defeat.
But there's a time and a plaice for everything*
*NOTE, This worn-out pun must have appeared at least 80 times on UKC. Thank you.
To the OP, absolutely no shame calling for help (regardless of grade as others said). Far better to call than risk injury or worse.
In reply to Beth-Cath-T:
I was rescued off a good ledge on Blacks and Tans on Sunday. Same situation, long way above gear and both up and down looked like bad ideas. Still some mileage till I've consolidated Severe
I was rescued off a good ledge on Blacks and Tans on Sunday. Same situation, long way above gear and both up and down looked like bad ideas. Still some mileage till I've consolidated Severe
In reply to Beth-Cath-T:
Thanks all!
I have done it on one occasion before at Shining Clough but felt it was more justified than the occasion I mention in the OP (even though lower grade...).
Live and learn. I guess it's better to attempt routes and need help than not go near them...
Thanks all!
I have done it on one occasion before at Shining Clough but felt it was more justified than the occasion I mention in the OP (even though lower grade...).
Live and learn. I guess it's better to attempt routes and need help than not go near them...
In reply to SCrossley:
Well everyone has used it, but I wouldn't say no shame is attached - especially if the route proved to be cruise with a top rope.
> There is no shame in the rope of life.
Well everyone has used it, but I wouldn't say no shame is attached - especially if the route proved to be cruise with a top rope.
In reply to Beth-Cath-T: In hindsight I wish I had gone for the rope from above request last Sunday. Instead I pressed on beyond a dodgy gear placement and ended up taking a 10m ground fall. Lucky for me I came away with no major injuries. Far better to avoid putting yourself through that and stay safe.
In reply to Trevers:
I got rescued off that when I was totally solid at VS! I was only 3.5m from the top as well...
> I was rescued off a good ledge on Blacks and Tans on Sunday. Same situation, long way above gear and both up and down looked like bad ideas. Still some mileage till I've consolidated Severe
I got rescued off that when I was totally solid at VS! I was only 3.5m from the top as well...
In reply to Blue Straggler:
Good to know
A further thought on this - far better to inconvenience someone, a friend or stranger, by asking for a toprope than it is to inconvenience them by needing a rescue with smashed limbs.
Good to know
A further thought on this - far better to inconvenience someone, a friend or stranger, by asking for a toprope than it is to inconvenience them by needing a rescue with smashed limbs.
In reply to Beth-Cath-T:
Absolutely fine. So long as you consider the potential results if rescue wasn't available and don't make too much of a habit of it.
We had a good chuckle at a friend who decided to solo great slab on froggatt. Just as he was contemplating the crux the heavens opened. He stood there for ages while his girlfriend sorted a toprope, with the added hassle being that he wasn't wearing a harness and there aren't any obvious anchors at the top. He was totally drench by the time he got down.
Absolutely fine. So long as you consider the potential results if rescue wasn't available and don't make too much of a habit of it.
We had a good chuckle at a friend who decided to solo great slab on froggatt. Just as he was contemplating the crux the heavens opened. He stood there for ages while his girlfriend sorted a toprope, with the added hassle being that he wasn't wearing a harness and there aren't any obvious anchors at the top. He was totally drench by the time he got down.
Post edited at 14:37
In reply to ByEek:
Been there and done that although fortunately managed to traverse off L without calling for a rescue, managed to do it on a later visit.
My worst was a sudden panic attack at the crux of Extol. I shouted down for rescue to some mates who were just about to set off on Dovedale Groove. It took a while but they eventually realised my panic was genuine and set off round to the top. It is a long way and by the time they got there I was on my way up the final groove having had calmed down again, done the move and gratefully clipped the peg, which was still in at the time. They were not best pleased as by then it was too late for them to do Dovedale Groove.
Next day we were up there again doing Hiraeth when a leader on Extol got to the peg that I had been so grateful to clip, wiggled it with his fingers and popped it out. Confidence counts for a lot!
> Great Slab at Froggatt sees a good many rescues. Fortunately, there is a good ledge just before the crux
Been there and done that although fortunately managed to traverse off L without calling for a rescue, managed to do it on a later visit.
My worst was a sudden panic attack at the crux of Extol. I shouted down for rescue to some mates who were just about to set off on Dovedale Groove. It took a while but they eventually realised my panic was genuine and set off round to the top. It is a long way and by the time they got there I was on my way up the final groove having had calmed down again, done the move and gratefully clipped the peg, which was still in at the time. They were not best pleased as by then it was too late for them to do Dovedale Groove.
Next day we were up there again doing Hiraeth when a leader on Extol got to the peg that I had been so grateful to clip, wiggled it with his fingers and popped it out. Confidence counts for a lot!
In reply to Beth-Cath-T:
Last weekend I backed off a HS that I have seconded in the past with no issues. Sometimes your head isn't in the right place, only you know that!
Add to that the fact that grading isn't an exact science and it is easy to get into a place where you are not comfortable.
Sometimes you have to embrace your inner wus and move on to the next climb.
Last weekend I backed off a HS that I have seconded in the past with no issues. Sometimes your head isn't in the right place, only you know that!
Add to that the fact that grading isn't an exact science and it is easy to get into a place where you are not comfortable.
Sometimes you have to embrace your inner wus and move on to the next climb.
In reply to Beth-Cath-T:
this makes interesting reading
http://www.ukclimbing.com/forums/t.php?n=572615
this makes interesting reading
http://www.ukclimbing.com/forums/t.php?n=572615
In reply to Beth-Cath-T:
Better to get rescued and stay safe for another day! The grades irrelevant.
Better to get rescued and stay safe for another day! The grades irrelevant.
In reply to Beth-Cath-T:
Been there done that - broke a hold off on a VS and didn't think I'd make the resulting move. could've taken the fall quite happily, but I'd have been hanging in space and the tide had come in so escape down wasn't an option. so the most sensible thing was to ask for a rope.
I've also got stuck on an E1 - couldn't reverse the move, couldn't take the fall either (bad gear). Eventually realised I was simply going to pump out and come off so had to go for it. Got to the top with no more gear and could feel my hands uncurling off the rounded top-out. Definitely a 'climb or die' situation!
Been there done that - broke a hold off on a VS and didn't think I'd make the resulting move. could've taken the fall quite happily, but I'd have been hanging in space and the tide had come in so escape down wasn't an option. so the most sensible thing was to ask for a rope.
I've also got stuck on an E1 - couldn't reverse the move, couldn't take the fall either (bad gear). Eventually realised I was simply going to pump out and come off so had to go for it. Got to the top with no more gear and could feel my hands uncurling off the rounded top-out. Definitely a 'climb or die' situation!
In reply to Blue Straggler:
Yup I had a moment on that too on a day when I'd led other stuff up to VS. My log book says "Almost lost it on the last ten metres, no cams or nuts that would that would fit and only slopers. Awful!". I vividly remember just sitting there looking at lovely rounded holds with never an incut to get your fingers behind in sight, my rope trailing away runnerless below me and no obvious gear above me. That awful situation where the longer you sit and think about things the greater gravity's pull becomes! I think my words on hitting the top were something along the lines of "Right that's it I'm selling my gear!"
Yup I had a moment on that too on a day when I'd led other stuff up to VS. My log book says "Almost lost it on the last ten metres, no cams or nuts that would that would fit and only slopers. Awful!". I vividly remember just sitting there looking at lovely rounded holds with never an incut to get your fingers behind in sight, my rope trailing away runnerless below me and no obvious gear above me. That awful situation where the longer you sit and think about things the greater gravity's pull becomes! I think my words on hitting the top were something along the lines of "Right that's it I'm selling my gear!"
In reply to Beth-Cath-T:
If you can hang on long enough to have a rope lowered, can you not;
-Traverse to easier ground
-Downclimb to more gear, place and lower off
-Place a load of gear, lower off gently
-Find a rest, recover then try the section again
-Retain some dignity and fall off
Grade is not that relevant, to my mind. I guess I think that if you launch up a route with it in the back of your mind 'oh, I can just ask for a rope if it is too hard' then you are not fully committed to that route. Bear in mind that I am a notorious coward who only climbs stuff he is relatively sure he can get up safely.
That said, glad you didn't shatter your ankles because of daft pride.
If you can hang on long enough to have a rope lowered, can you not;
-Traverse to easier ground
-Downclimb to more gear, place and lower off
-Place a load of gear, lower off gently
-Find a rest, recover then try the section again
-Retain some dignity and fall off
Grade is not that relevant, to my mind. I guess I think that if you launch up a route with it in the back of your mind 'oh, I can just ask for a rope if it is too hard' then you are not fully committed to that route. Bear in mind that I am a notorious coward who only climbs stuff he is relatively sure he can get up safely.
That said, glad you didn't shatter your ankles because of daft pride.
In reply to Roberttaylor:
Errrr no thanks - not for me. I value my limbs and other bits and life more than my dignity. In any case I don't see calling for help as a loss of dignity. Even if it was a loss, I'd much rather lose a bit and live to climb another day.
I've had 2 long falls on rock, one resulting in bad injuries. I've concluded that long falls are a bad idea.
But I like your comment that you only climb stuff you are relatively sure you can get up safely, nice one.
> If you can hang on long enough to have a rope lowered, can you not... Retain some dignity and fall off
Errrr no thanks - not for me. I value my limbs and other bits and life more than my dignity. In any case I don't see calling for help as a loss of dignity. Even if it was a loss, I'd much rather lose a bit and live to climb another day.
I've had 2 long falls on rock, one resulting in bad injuries. I've concluded that long falls are a bad idea.
But I like your comment that you only climb stuff you are relatively sure you can get up safely, nice one.
Post edited at 15:54
In reply to Roberttaylor:
If you could do any of this you wouldn't be considering waiting for a rescue! :P
> -Traverse to easier ground
> -Downclimb to more gear, place and lower off
> -Place a load of gear, lower off gently
> -Find a rest, recover then try the section again
> -Downclimb to more gear, place and lower off
> -Place a load of gear, lower off gently
> -Find a rest, recover then try the section again
If you could do any of this you wouldn't be considering waiting for a rescue! :P
In reply to abseil:
Not a loss of dignity then but an error in judgement. The moment you accept that you have the option/could call for a rope from above you have rendered the climb a great deal safer.
Dave McLeod mentions this as an option btw in his ebook 'how to climb hard trad' (well worth a read)
That said, I took a fall off an E3 recently, so that may be changing. I mean I either climb bold stuff I am pretty sure I can get up without having too much trouble or I climb safe stuff that I might fall off.
Would I call for a rope? If the need ever arose and it was life/limb or death, yes, but I would tie it round my neck to maintain the illusion of danger.
> Errrr no thanks - not for me. I value my limbs and other bits and life more than my dignity. In any case I don't see calling for help as a loss of dignity. Even if it was a loss, I'd much rather lose a bit and live to climb another day.
Not a loss of dignity then but an error in judgement. The moment you accept that you have the option/could call for a rope from above you have rendered the climb a great deal safer.
Dave McLeod mentions this as an option btw in his ebook 'how to climb hard trad' (well worth a read)
> But I like your comment that you only climb stuff you are relatively sure you can get up safely, nice one.
That said, I took a fall off an E3 recently, so that may be changing. I mean I either climb bold stuff I am pretty sure I can get up without having too much trouble or I climb safe stuff that I might fall off.
Would I call for a rope? If the need ever arose and it was life/limb or death, yes, but I would tie it round my neck to maintain the illusion of danger.
In reply to Roberttaylor:
Thanks a lot for your reply. Error in judgement certainly applies to me, in both the long falls I've had on rock. (And in both cases calling for a rope was absolutely impossible).
Thanks for the tip about the Dave McLeod e-book too.
Thanks a lot for your reply. Error in judgement certainly applies to me, in both the long falls I've had on rock. (And in both cases calling for a rope was absolutely impossible).
Thanks for the tip about the Dave McLeod e-book too.
In reply to Beth-Cath-T:
Long story shortened:
Soloing a VS. Felt very pumped. Rested on a stance but not for long enough. Didn't ask for a top-rope (anchor already in place, rope handy). Fell off. Broke both feet. Lucky it wasn't worse. Three weeks in hospital. Three months in a wheelchair. Twelve years later it still hurts.
No shame in asking for a bit of help.
Long story shortened:
Soloing a VS. Felt very pumped. Rested on a stance but not for long enough. Didn't ask for a top-rope (anchor already in place, rope handy). Fell off. Broke both feet. Lucky it wasn't worse. Three weeks in hospital. Three months in a wheelchair. Twelve years later it still hurts.
No shame in asking for a bit of help.
Post edited at 20:00
In reply to Blue Straggler:
Yeah, except that harder routes more often make for nicer falls. Screw falling off HSs.
> It happens. And as someone said, grade is immaterial.
Yeah, except that harder routes more often make for nicer falls. Screw falling off HSs.
In reply to Beth-Cath-T:
I've been in a similar situation. Trying a grade harder on a sport route i was on crimpy holds and couldnt clip a bolt. I hoped i'd be able to clip it after another move but it only got worse! I then found myself out of my depth with a very real chance of hitting the ground. The option of a rescue crossed my mind but there wasn't one. The only option was to climb to the next bolt and only made a fall much worse. I was sh*tting it! Its amazing what you can climb when you really have to.
I've been in a similar situation. Trying a grade harder on a sport route i was on crimpy holds and couldnt clip a bolt. I hoped i'd be able to clip it after another move but it only got worse! I then found myself out of my depth with a very real chance of hitting the ground. The option of a rescue crossed my mind but there wasn't one. The only option was to climb to the next bolt and only made a fall much worse. I was sh*tting it! Its amazing what you can climb when you really have to.
In reply to Beth-Cath-T:
Totally normal. The greatest style of failure I've managed to achieve is to fall off AND get rescued off a grit route. Magic.
Having taken a bit of 'wrong turning' on Elegy I stood on some fairly reasonable but rather sloping footholds for 45 minutes before calling politely for a top-rope from the climbers who'd done a nearby route in the time I'd been stood there. I had mastered the art of rotating my weight between the available holds to keep the cramp at a sustainable level, but got absolutely nowhere on finding a way of climbing up, or down.
I've got stuck soloing loads of times too. Most embarrassing. All except once, when I got rescued by my climbing partner who'd gone off for a piss or something while I decided to get totally out of my depth, I've managed to find a way up or down or sideways from those situations.
Totally normal. The greatest style of failure I've managed to achieve is to fall off AND get rescued off a grit route. Magic.
Having taken a bit of 'wrong turning' on Elegy I stood on some fairly reasonable but rather sloping footholds for 45 minutes before calling politely for a top-rope from the climbers who'd done a nearby route in the time I'd been stood there. I had mastered the art of rotating my weight between the available holds to keep the cramp at a sustainable level, but got absolutely nowhere on finding a way of climbing up, or down.
I've got stuck soloing loads of times too. Most embarrassing. All except once, when I got rescued by my climbing partner who'd gone off for a piss or something while I decided to get totally out of my depth, I've managed to find a way up or down or sideways from those situations.
In reply to Beth-Cath-T:
I recently had to lower off an S at Stanage, only my 5th trad lead. At least I learnt that my gear placement was okay.
I was embarrassed, but my two mates, both solid climbers, assured me that we've all been there.
I recently had to lower off an S at Stanage, only my 5th trad lead. At least I learnt that my gear placement was okay.
I was embarrassed, but my two mates, both solid climbers, assured me that we've all been there.
In reply to Beth-Cath-T:
Everyone gets themselves into trouble from time to time - that's not important. What is important is the ability, one way or another, to get out of difficulty on your own or with a little assistance if it's available. Each time you learn a little bit more and are better prepared for the future. It's called experience and you never stop acquiring it. You can now put all of that little experience in its place and maybe use it to your advantage some other time.
Everyone gets themselves into trouble from time to time - that's not important. What is important is the ability, one way or another, to get out of difficulty on your own or with a little assistance if it's available. Each time you learn a little bit more and are better prepared for the future. It's called experience and you never stop acquiring it. You can now put all of that little experience in its place and maybe use it to your advantage some other time.
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