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French entrepreneurial spirit

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 Enty 03 Sep 2014
You couldn't make this one up. A little complicated but bear with me.

We live near Mont Ventoux and between May and October thousands of cyclists come to cycle up this iconic Tour de France mountain.
At the foot of the mountain there's three towns each having their own road up to the summit.
Bedoin, 21km, 1600m of elevation
Malaucene, 21km, 1560m elevation
Sault, 26km, 1200m elevation.
Linking all these climbs in one day is known as the Cinglé Challenge - Cinglé is French for Screwball and as the name suggests it's not a challenge to be sniffed at.
You can do this in an official capacity with a card which you can get stamped in each of the villages and on the summit. You get your card stamped at any local commercial outlet but the bike shops are always happy to give you your stamp - I mean which bike shop wouldn't want thousands of extra cyclists coming through the door, buying energy bars, gels, spare tubes, paying to have their bikes fixed etc etc.
Well the bike shop in Bedoin doesn't want these extra cyclists.
We work in partenership with the guy who runs the Cinglé Club and we just recieved an email saying tell your cycling guest not to ask for their cards to be stamped in the Routes du Ventoux bike shop because it is interfering with his work. Ha ha!!!

On a serious note this sort of attitude is not uncommon in this part of the world and after 11 years of giving them the benefit of the doubt It's starting to grate a bit.

E
Removed User 03 Sep 2014
In reply to Enty:

Interfering with his 3 hour lunch break more like.
 yorkshireman 03 Sep 2014
In reply to Enty:

Only 3 years here and it still comes as a shock to be kicked out of a B&Q sized DIY store at 12 noon as they shut down for a 2 hour lunch.
 Dauphin 03 Sep 2014
In reply to Enty:

They invented the word as it denotes something so unusual.

D
 john arran 03 Sep 2014
In reply to yorkshireman:

There are few English expats here in Ariège and very few people speak English, so I was surprised when in Brico-Marché one day at 11:55am to hear a shop-closing announcement ... in English ONLY! The French had already cleared off to lunch.

I also saw a big poster advertising tandem parapent flights that must have cost a pretty penny to produce ... with only a local telephone number and no website or even email address.
 woolsack 03 Sep 2014
In reply to Enty:

Which one is that? the big one on right on the road into town from the Ventoux? The one opposite the fountain seemed happy enough.
 kevin stephens 03 Sep 2014
In reply to Enty:

Alternatively this may say more about cyclists happy to spend €2k on a pair of bling wheels (on-line rather in an LBS) but not €2 on an expresso so they can get their card stamped in the café?
OP Enty 03 Sep 2014
In reply to kevin stephens:

> Alternatively this may say more about cyclists happy to spend €2k on a pair of bling wheels (on-line rather in an LBS) but not €2 on an expresso so they can get their card stamped in the café?

Got nowt to do with that Kev. It's about a French man alienating 3000 potential customers. If half of them buy a power bar at 2.5€..........

The guy is just a stupid cnut and he's not on his own in this part of France.

In Sault there's a restaurant. The food is ok but although the service is fast it's also shit - as in what the f*ck are you doing in my restaurant inconveniencing me?
They really think they are doing you a favour.
I've been going there with groups of cyclists, sometimes groups of 14+ sometimes twice a week for the last 10 years. I've never had an Hello how you doing or any sort of acknowledgement in any way. We no longer go there as I have searched out slightly more friendly alternatives.

E
OP Enty 03 Sep 2014
In reply to woolsack:

> Which one is that? the big one on right on the road into town from the Ventoux? The one opposite the fountain seemed happy enough.

Na the one right on the start line with the car park in front.

E
 Timmd 03 Sep 2014
In reply to Enty:

Crazy ()
OP Enty 03 Sep 2014
In reply to Enty:

Let me tell you about the bar in our village.

Lats summer, my dad, Mrs. Ents dad and uncle went for a walk in the forest. It was about 38°. They arrived back at the bar in the village at 2 minutes past two.
Now when my dad isn't even thirsty he can sink 10 pints. Mrs. Ents dad can beat him and Mrs. Ents uncle is the champ.
It's 4.5€ for a pint.

Sorry we close at 2pm.

E
 kevin stephens 03 Sep 2014
In reply to Enty:

OK. Well I'm taking my bike to France for the first time at the weekend, staying at John's place in Ariege so will be fun checking out the local cafes and cols
 mbh 03 Sep 2014
In reply to Enty:

My mum lives in Brittany, and we have been going there from Roscoff, usually by bike, at least twice a year for the last 16 years. Sometimes we go direct, sometimes we wiggle around and take our times over a few days.

It has become a family joke that wherever we go, everything is shut and noone is about. It's like the apocalypse has happened. Countless times you turn up at a small town and there is only tumbleweed. If you are lucky, the florist is open.
 Toby_W 04 Sep 2014
In reply to Enty: my friend Dean laughed about Gites when talking about his place in France saying no matter how bad they are the attitude is "what? You're not super grateful I'm allowing you to stay at all?" Followed by the sort of look the queen might give you if you'd asked her to carry your bag.

Regarding lunch. Are we all not a little jealous though, in the UK if we are lucky enough to get time for lunch lots of people eat on their feet or at their desks. Decamping with your workmates for a nice long and cheap lunch sounds lovely.

Cheers

Toby

 Simon4 04 Sep 2014
In reply to Enty:
It is always a source of amusement to me to see French websites - even quite official, high-powered ones for major towns or ski-resorts - where they bother to translate them into English, but very bad English. Typically sentence constructs that do not make sense and sound totally alien in English, words that are never, ever used in real English, more or less word for word translations, littered with faux amis and other howlers.

If you are going to put an English version, why not make sure it is correct, native English? It can't cost very much, there are plenty of native speakers available to check the phrasing and word use. But they seem to just put these pages (not through google translate, they would never use such an evil "Anglo-Saxon" corporation) through their half-remembered school English, with all the absurdities and malapropisms that they have picked up in the meanwhile. Very easy to avoid, plenty of French people speak very good English quite apart from native English speakers who are available to them, but they can't be bothered - don't care.

A friend of mine living there often wonders why the restrants don't shut for a 2 hour lunch, after all, it is sacred in France.
Post edited at 08:14
 Tim Davies 04 Sep 2014
In reply to Enty:

Could start a new game: what is this describing ?

Hiking curious at all stages: from discovery walk with family near the village sports getaway altitude.


Courtesy of the st gervais website.
 Trangia 04 Sep 2014
In reply to Simon4:

"Every room in our Hotel has a French Widow offering a wonderful and satisfying prospect"
 Mooncat 04 Sep 2014
In reply to Enty:

Ah yes Provencal customer service, lots of France is bad but in Provence they're world class rude. Last year me and the missus were in Nimes, went for a sandwich at lunchtime and she asked for hers without butter on it came back with butter, the waiter threw a hissy fit, apparently it was our fault he got the order wrong, of course we stood up walked out and went elsewhere. A few days later we were eating in a restaurant, finished our meal and ordered another bottle of wine, the restaurant was almost empty but we were refused because we were taking up a table. Guess who didn't get a tip or any repeat business?
 James FR 04 Sep 2014
In reply to Enty:

All this rudeness doesn't seem to be having much of an impact: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_Tourism_rankings#Most-visited_countries_...
 ByEek 04 Sep 2014
In reply to Enty:
> On a serious note this sort of attitude is not uncommon in this part of the world and after 11 years of giving them the benefit of the doubt It's starting to grate a bit.

Maybe he has a serious point. Just for the sake of argument, if he can make €500 a day doing repairs (no expenses), he would have to sell a lot of power bars and inner tubes to earn the same in profit from the distractions.

It is a perfectly reasonable business strategy to turn down business, especially if it isn't making you any money. Alas, it would seem he has exerted French style marketing practices in the way he has gone about making this known.
Post edited at 08:39
 Mooncat 04 Sep 2014
In reply to ByEek:

That'd make sense if he didn't buy inner tubes and power bars to stock in his shop.
 Indy 04 Sep 2014
In reply to Enty:

>It's about a French man alienating 3000 potential customers. If half of them buy a power bar at 2.5€..........

> The guy is just a stupid cnut and he's not on his own in this part of France.

Not just the french, l can think of a bike shop in Harrogate with a similar attitude. Its also worth mentioning that maybe this guy has a good core of customers and isnt interested in turning his small local business into a warehouse serving '000s. Why don't you set up a business offering these service? sounds like a license to print money from what your saying.

Was in Paris last week and have to admit having a grudging admiration for the french way.
 GrahamD 04 Sep 2014
In reply to Enty:

I guess its possible that he thinks YOUR clients aren't actually putting money through his tills, whereas others are ?
 seankenny 04 Sep 2014
In reply to Enty:

> Let me tell you about the bar in our village.

...
> Sorry we close at 2pm.

A few years ago my partner and I went to Hay-on-Wye for the weekend. We went for a walk, chilled at the B&B, got changed and hit town for about 8pm. Every restaurant bar one said "Sorry we stop serving at 8pm," - even the one we rocked up to at 8:01.

The same idiocy takes place in small-town Britain too.

 Mooncat 04 Sep 2014
In reply to seankenny:

They wouldn't have said sorry in Provence.
 ByEek 04 Sep 2014
In reply to Mooncat:

> That'd make sense if he didn't buy inner tubes and power bars to stock in his shop.

True. But if all you are able to sell are power bars and inner tubes, not to mention all the people who will just come in for a stamp (free), then that is not good business sense. If the bulk of your work is repairs and you keep getting distracted for a few euros here or there, I can see why you might want to discourage that. Personally, I would charge a significant amount for a stamp.
 neilh 04 Sep 2014
In reply to Enty:

About 2 years ago i flew over o Paris to see a business customer ( North of Paris) for a day trip. The plane was delayed etc etc and I arrived 2 hours lates at 5 to 12. Only to be told it is nearly lunch time come back in 2 hours. as my flight back was in 4 hours, this caused problems.There was a gallic shrug of the shoulders and I was left to my own devices.the company is now closed. the parent company closed it and shifted its manufacturing elsewhere.Sad.

The one thing I do say is that the French have not bent to the Anglo-saxon model and I admire thm for it. But the economic/social price is becoming too heavy. For example I prefer clbg trips to Spain. Kalymnos- you just cannot beat the way the locals have responded to the money that clbg brings.
 ByEek 04 Sep 2014
In reply to seankenny:

> Sorry we stop serving at 8pm," - even the one we rocked up to at 8:01.

> The same idiocy takes place in small-town Britain too.

Again - you are assuming they want your business. Hay-on-Wye is a big day time tourist place and no doubt many establishments will have made their money during the day. Why open later at night with all the additional staff and costs if you have made as much as you need?
 Alun 04 Sep 2014
In reply to Enty:

> Lats summer, my dad, Mrs. Ents dad and uncle went for a walk in the forest. It was about 38°. They arrived back at the bar in the village at 2 minutes past two.

> Sorry we close at 2pm.

The situation is very similar here in Spain, and it frequently had me tearing my hair out.

Then I viewed things from the other side of the argument:

You are little French/Spanish chap or chappess who owns a bar, and have done for your entire life. It's a bit of a boring job, but it has consistently paid the rent the bills, allowed you to bring up two kids who you adore, and now you even have grandkids who you worship. You have a close-knit group of friends and fmaily in the village with whom you live your life - breakfast, lunch, dinner, social engagements etc.

One of the simple pleasures you have in life is to sit down every day to a hearty lunch with your friends or family. All morning, while serving coffee and breakfast, you are looking forward to you daily two hours relaxing at lunch time. Then some english tourists arrive, after closing time, and demand refreshment. Sorry, you say, we're shut, because I've been looking forward to my lunch.

They get cross. They say "but I was prepared to pay you 50€!!".

"I don't need your money", you reply, "because I don't spend it. I don't spend five thousand euros on expensive road bikes. I don't have an iPad or an iPhone. I don't buy expensive clothes. I don't eat out at posh restaurants. I drive a car which is 25 years old and runs perfectly well, thank you very much.

"I don't need that much money to make me happy. What makes me happy is a two hour lunch break with my family."




When I started seeing it like that, I started understanding it. And I started realising that perhaps our American inspired, open-all-hours, I'm-giving-you-money-why-won't-you-take-it attitude may not be the only way to live a life. Though I will confess to still getting frustrated with it now and again!
 Alun 04 Sep 2014
In reply to seankenny:

> The same idiocy takes place in small-town Britain too.

So you define "Idiocy" as "I've been working a 10 hour shift all day and I want to go home"?
 Andy Hardy 04 Sep 2014
In reply to ByEek:

I'd be installing a vending machine for the power bars, and a coin operated stamping machine, leaving myself and team of crack mechanics free to deal with big complicated issues on expensive bikes for correspondingly huge fees.

That's just me though - tech mad!
 Sir Chasm 04 Sep 2014
In reply to ByEek:

> True. But if all you are able to sell are power bars and inner tubes, not to mention all the people who will just come in for a stamp (free), then that is not good business sense. If the bulk of your work is repairs and you keep getting distracted for a few euros here or there, I can see why you might want to discourage that. Personally, I would charge a significant amount for a stamp.

If I didn't want to be interrupted whilst repairing bikes I'd leave the stamp on a bit of string and let people stamp their own card (and help themselves to free tubes and gels presumably as I'm paying so little attention).
OP Enty 04 Sep 2014
In reply to ByEek:

> True. But if all you are able to sell are power bars and inner tubes, not to mention all the people who will just come in for a stamp (free), then that is not good business sense. If the bulk of your work is repairs and you keep getting distracted for a few euros here or there, I can see why you might want to discourage that. Personally, I would charge a significant amount for a stamp.

You don't get it do you. Because of his attitude to the card stamping which takes 3 seconds to do he doesn't get any business at all from us even if it's somthing profitable for him.

Look after the pennies and all that....

E
 seankenny 04 Sep 2014
In reply to ByEek:

> Again - you are assuming they want your business. Hay-on-Wye is a big day time tourist place and no doubt many establishments will have made their money during the day. Why open later at night with all the additional staff and costs if you have made as much as you need?

Well, the restaurants were full and still serving at the time, so it looked like they were in full cooking and serving mode. It was a Saturday night - if you want to lock-up bang on time then that's a Wed night luxury.

The irony being I suspect many of these so-called entrepreneurs in small-town England are heavily into voting Tory and forcing "flexible working" on others.
 john arran 04 Sep 2014
In reply to Alun:

Great post. I had a similar realisation when we couldn't eat out on a New Year's Eve. Only about a third of the restaurants were open and there were queues of people being urned away from these as they were overfull already. My first reaction was "why the heck don't the others open - they could make a fortune?" and my second thought was "It's New Year's Eve - why the heck should they feel they have to work when everyone else is spending time with family."

I do agree they sometimes take it a bit far though
 neilh 04 Sep 2014
In reply to john arran:

Do not buy into this argument. If you are in the hospitality business food/drinks - then that is your market/business " serving customers".Let us not pussyfoot around on this.
 Pete O'Donovan 04 Sep 2014
In reply to Alun:

> Though I will confess to still getting frustrated with it now and again!

Only a little? As someone who rarely eats lunch the concept of the extended lunch break in Spain (and France) has always seemed odd to me — disruption to the working/studying day, four lots of rush hour traffic instead of two, etc.

But when I started doing a little business there, producing and selling guidebooks, my initial bemusement quickly turned into outright frustration.

For example: the simple act of phoning someone at work. Nobody seems to start before 9.30am, and then there's often a morning coffee break sometime between 10.30 and 11. By 12.30am my (Spanish) wife would start saying "Oh it's no good phoning now — they'll be getting ready to go for lunch". From then until 3.30 or 4pm it simply isn't worth trying, and when they do finally get back to the office I suspect that some of the responses I get are a little influenced by a full belly and a couple of glasses of wine. Of course, these folk will probably be at work until 8 or 8.30pm, but I've usually lost the will to live long before that and so just think "I'll try again tomorrow".

I realize it's a cultural thing and I have to accept it and work around it, but I still think it's crazy and very damaging for business.

The long midday break + siesta hails from a time when nearly everybody worked in the fields and had to take advantage of the cooler parts of the day (morning and evening) while resting up during the hottest. In the air conditioned 21st century this doesn't make quite so much sense.

Pete.
 Bob 04 Sep 2014
In reply to seankenny:

One of our local pubs (that's always busy) is quite the opposite. We turned up at 20:15 one Sunday night to have a bar meal. "We stop doing food at 8 on a Sunday", a pause, "Grab a menu and order in the next five minutes". That's why it's always busy, oh, and the good food.
 Simon4 04 Sep 2014
In reply to Trangia:

> "Every room in our Hotel has a French Widow offering a wonderful and satisfying prospect"

They all overlook the bedrooms of attractive female guests, which just happen to have no curtains?

Well they would have to be French windows, woudldn't they, being in France?
 Ramblin dave 04 Sep 2014
In reply to neilh:

> Do not buy into this argument. If you are in the hospitality business food/drinks - then that is your market/business " serving customers".Let us not pussyfoot around on this.

It's your business, not your sacred duty, though.

That said, I reserve the right to get annoyed by local butcher, greengrocers and so on who complain about losing business to supermarkets but resolutely refuse to open except nine to five-thirty while most people are at work.
 neilh 04 Sep 2014
In reply to Ramblin dave:

Rubbish. They are in the hospitality business. That is what they do.If you own the business and do not get this, then god help you. There is a high percentage of business failures in that sector when all said and done.
 Simon4 04 Sep 2014
In reply to Mooncat:

> Ah yes Provencal customer service, lots of France is bad but in Provence they're world class rude.

You realise you have just insulted Parisian national pride, by suggesting that someone could be more rude than Parisian waiters?

Its not surprising that you get poor service if you go around suggesting that some bunch of yokels could do a better, more sophisticated job than the capital.
 Alun 04 Sep 2014
In reply to neilh:

> Do not buy into this argument. If you are in the hospitality business food/drinks - then that is your market/business " serving customers".Let us not pussyfoot around on this.

And if you are in the "enjoying life" business, then you should do whatever you feel makes you happy.

You, as a customer, do not have any *right* to be served at any restaurant, or shop, or in fact anywhere that is not a public institution.

> If you own the business and do not get this, then god help you.

Perhaps they have owned the business for 25 years, and don't feel they need any help from god or, worse, rich British holidaymakers who used to being waited on whenever they feel like it.
 Alun 04 Sep 2014
In reply to Pete O'Donovan:

> Of course, these folk will probably be at work until 8 or 8.30pm, but I've usually lost the will to live long before that...

That's your problem then Pete...! Though I can completely see your point of view.

Things are better than you describe here in the big city, but I have had to adapt my working day to work til at least 7pm most days. I still get surprised when I go back to Britain and see people leaving to home at 5pm. "What's this?", I say to myself, "half-day today, is it?!"
 woolsack 04 Sep 2014
In reply to Enty:

> You don't get it do you. Because of his attitude to the card stamping which takes 3 seconds to do he doesn't get any business at all from us even if it's somthing profitable for him.

> Look after the pennies and all that....

> E

This guy, I presume, also rents out bikes, like the other shops so he's losing a fair bit of regular, season long business from you.

All the businesses I got my card stamped by were quite happy to do it. I spent about 25-30 euros between them all that day I suppose. Not a fortune but it all adds up
OP Enty 04 Sep 2014
In reply to neilh:

> Rubbish. They are in the hospitality business. That is what they do.If you own the business and do not get this, then god help you. There is a high percentage of business failures in that sector when all said and done.

Yes. This is the reason why I'll still be Smiling with my guests at 11:30 tonight after doing breakfast at 6:30 this morning.
In 6 weeks time i have 4 months semi-holiday.

E
 woolsack 04 Sep 2014
In reply to Pete O'Donovan:



> I realize it's a cultural thing and I have to accept it and work around it, but I still think it's crazy and very damaging for business.

Beats the American model of phoning you 24 hours a day though

OP Enty 04 Sep 2014
In reply to woolsack:

The contrast between the two shops is incredible. JC at Ventoux bikes is aiming to retire to Mallorca in 10 years. I bet the grumpy guy will still be in his shitty little shop being grumpy by then.

25/30€ times a couple of thousand.

E
 Pete O'Donovan 04 Sep 2014
In reply to Alun:


> Things are better than you describe here in the big city, but I have had to adapt my working day to work til at least 7pm most days. I still get surprised when I go back to Britain and see people leaving to home at 5pm. "What's this?", I say to myself, "half-day today, is it?!"

Well, that's the other side of it — a long, long working day (if you take the actual time from clock-on to clock-off) for the amount of productivity, and kids don't finish school 'till 5pm, having started at 9am.
 Pete O'Donovan 04 Sep 2014
In reply to woolsack:

> Beats the American model of phoning you 24 hours a day though

Agreed, but they're always so polite about it!
 Timmd 04 Sep 2014
In reply to neilh:
> Rubbish. They are in the hospitality business. That is what they do.If you own the business and do not get this, then god help you. There is a high percentage of business failures in that sector when all said and done.

While I love it when places still serve a bit past last food order time if you order quickly, If they're managing to continue to earn a living, and aren't open all the hours which are convenient to tourists, then that's them having a certain amount of autonomy...retaining a certain standard of living regarding a work/life balance.
Post edited at 10:21
 dpm23 04 Sep 2014
In reply to Alun:

There was a programme on recently looking at the best/worse diets in the world and how it affected the health of local people. The French came out towards the top of the best diets even with the 'French paradox' of high consumption of meat and dairy.

One of the reasons suggested as to why this is was their attitude to food: the 1-2 hour lunch break; sitting down to eat with friends; a glass of wine; proper food made from fresh ingredients - so I suspect they won't be changing anytime soon if they can help it!

I enjoy visiting France and like this way of doing things. I work in the UK ambulance services and the total inability to have anything resembling a decent meal break will, I'm sure, be having a serious long-term detrimental effect on the physical and mental health of those forced to work like this.
 neilh 04 Sep 2014
In reply to Alun:

It's not peculiar to a British habit. No doubt they serve French and other European holidaymakers.

If you have owned a business for 25 years it does not guarantee a future.
 neilh 04 Sep 2014
In reply to dpm23:

I suspect that if you looked at French ambulance services, they do not have 1 -2 hours lunch breaks.Nature of the job does come into play here.
 yorkshireman 04 Sep 2014
In reply to dpm23:

> proper food made from fresh ingredients

Don't be fooled. The French eat a massive amount of muck - you can buy 20 different varieties of liquid/smash-style mashed potato even in a medium sized supermarket, and plenty of my neighbours who look down their nose on the English attitude to food will gladly serve this to their kids.

Don't get me started on dessert (aerosol cream FFS)

The thing about the French and food, is they all genuinely believe their food is the best in the world so they don't question it or seek out anything else. I consistently eat better (in average restaurants) in Britain than I do in France.
 ByEek 04 Sep 2014
In reply to seankenny:

> The irony being I suspect many of these so-called entrepreneurs in small-town England are heavily into voting Tory and forcing "flexible working" on others.

Or maybe they don't want to work 16 hour days just to suit you?
 neilh 04 Sep 2014
In reply to yorkshireman:

Brilliant. Had 2 weeks in Annecy early August. Apart from one meal in a family hotel restaurant, I did not eat one decent meal ( ate out whole time).Some of the meals were truely awful.And do not get me started about coffee's.Virtually every coffee came from an automatic machine.

Found one cafe which did proper coffee....Boy could they do with a few starrbucks, nero etc to keep them up on their toes.
 robert-hutton 04 Sep 2014
In reply to Enty:
We had our car broken into at Buoux and when to the police station at Bonnieux only to be told to go away because they was having lunch!

If you think they are bad not you should have gone to France 20 years ago, some of the banks and official offices took bad manners to another level and must have practiced as a team the gallic shrug when you tried your best A level French on them as collectively they put you in your place.

I quite like these attempts to summarize the Gallic shrug could be:
• "There's nothing to be done about it?"
• "Who knows!"
• "It's not my problem, buddy!"
• “Not me!”
• “I don’t necessarily agree.”
• "Look, you are not seriously expecting me to try to sort this out for you, are you?"
Post edited at 12:05
 Simon4 04 Sep 2014
In reply to robert-hutton:
Ah, the French fonctionnaire!

Invented to make the British bureaucrat seem like a miracle of helpfulness, reasonableness and friendliness (except in places like Rotherham, toward vulnerable children, I doubt if the French could manage to match that level of heartlessness and cruel indifference).

They carry self-serving and useless pedantry to a new level, which is worrying seeing as 85% of the French working population are actually fonctionnaires (please note, this figure is only 85.34% accurate).

I recall having forced an epic retreat from half way up the Brenva face in a storm, with a then girlfriend going to the French police in Chamonix in tears to ask for a rescue. French plod sternly looks down his nose at the very distressed punter and says "Engleeesh climbers! Should have looked at the meteo!"

Which of course we had, it had said 3 days of beau temp. Unfortunately by the time we got back, this had been retrospectively changed to a week of storms, by the hindcast. The other thing he said was it was nothing to do with them, contact the Italians (there being apparently no communication links between the 2 sides of the MB massif). When we got down, we dutifully phoned them to tell them not to look. Then we got a fine display of Italian insouciance, as against French :

"Oh, we wouldn't have started looking for a few days anyway. But thanks for mentioning it"
Post edited at 12:16
 seankenny 04 Sep 2014
In reply to ByEek:

> Or maybe they don't want to work 16 hour days just to suit you?

Well, if they can't organise their hospitality businesses to work past 8pm, they haven't grasped that the metropolitan parts of the country have changed, and that a lot of city people just eat later than in small towns. And if they can't organise a shift system and get people in to serve dinner at what is a very reasonable hour on a Saturday night, then alas they will get taken to the cleaners the minute a genuine entrepreneur turns up.

The food business is all about giving people with not much in the way of formal education a way to earn a decent living if they put the effort in.
In reply to Enty:

In Cornwall, this Monday gone, got to pub at 8.40 passing the sign saying 'food served 6.00-9.00'. Got to the bar only to be told that the kitchen was closed and they were cleaning up. We luckily asked before we ordered our beers because it was the third time in a row that something similar had happened: Saturday; 'too busy so not serving'. Sunday; 'we only keep a small kitchen so not serving (at 8.05 though the sign said open 'till 9.00)
So not perhaps as unique to France as might be thought.
 ByEek 04 Sep 2014
In reply to seankenny:

> Well, if they can't organise their hospitality businesses to work past 8pm, they haven't grasped that the metropolitan parts of the country have changed

And you could similarly say that the metropolitan parts of the country haven't grasped that out in the sticks, completing your meal order before 8pm is a reasonable thing to expect? Who is right?
 woolsack 04 Sep 2014
In reply to seankenny:

> Well, if they can't organise their hospitality businesses to work past 8pm, they haven't grasped that the metropolitan parts of the country have changed, and that a lot of city people just eat later than in small towns. And if they can't organise a shift system and get people in to serve dinner at what is a very reasonable hour on a Saturday night, then alas they will get taken to the cleaners the minute a genuine entrepreneur turns up.

> The food business is all about giving people with not much in the way of formal education a way to earn a decent living if they put the effort in.

I noticed more and more Golden Arches driving back through France last week. No wonder that the US hasn't been invaded yet, the food is shit!
 Doug 04 Sep 2014
In reply to DubyaJamesDubya:

Lost count of the number of times I've not managed to get something to eat in Highland pubs, hotels & restaurants where the kitchen always seems to shut just as we arrive, or the 'chef' has just left.

But I well remember a restaurant in a small town in the Massif Central which was the only place open on a Sunday evening in July turning away a couple who arrived maybe 5 minutes after us claiming they were too late (it was about 8) & suggesting they drove to the next town (some 30 miles away). He then spent the next hour propping up his bar, & moaning to a couple of locals about the poor trade that summer (& as my partner is French he couldn't have thought we wouldn't understand).

On balance I'm not sure either country is better or worse, just different (& I've now lived in France for >10 years)
 gethin_allen 04 Sep 2014
In reply to Doug:

Converse to this, we wandered into at curry house down the Moor in Sheffield at around 2 am ,after seeing that there were staff there, to ask if there was anywhere we could get a take away. They welcomed us in, found us a table and we sat there eating curry until about 4 am. it was great and they made a fair whack out of us as we were pissed and ordered anything that took our fancy without thinking of the cost.
OP Enty 04 Sep 2014
In reply to gethin_allen:

What's really brought this home to me is the 10 days I've just had in Ibiza. Like a different planet.

E
 Siward 04 Sep 2014
In reply to Enty:

"The thing that's wrong with the French is that they don't have a word for entrepreneur"

often (mis?)attributed to none other then Dubya himself, President of the United States, George W. Bush
 seankenny 04 Sep 2014
In reply to ByEek:

> And you could similarly say that the metropolitan parts of the country haven't grasped that out in the sticks, completing your meal order before 8pm is a reasonable thing to expect? Who is right?

Right or wrong is not the question. The question is, when do the Indians arrive in town?
 Trangia 04 Sep 2014
In reply to Simon4:

> Well they would have to be French windows, woudldn't they, being in France?

French Widows
 Timmd 04 Sep 2014
In reply to seankenny:
> Well, if they can't organise their hospitality businesses to work past 8pm, they haven't grasped that the metropolitan parts of the country have changed, and that a lot of city people just eat later than in small towns. And if they can't organise a shift system and get people in to serve dinner at what is a very reasonable hour on a Saturday night, then alas they will get taken to the cleaners the minute a genuine entrepreneur turns up.

It depends I suppose, they could always adapt to match the new person's level of service.

I think it's easy to see how somebody could get comfortable with hours which suit them and are less than ideal for passing tourists, but which locals get used to and tolerate/allow for, if they're the only place in a village, or one of few.
Post edited at 20:58
Party Boy 04 Sep 2014
In reply to Simon4:

> A friend of mine living there often wonders why the restrants don't shut for a 2 hour lunch, after all, it is sacred in France.

Did you use google translate for this post.......
 dpm23 04 Sep 2014
In reply to yorkshireman:

> Don't be fooled. The French eat a massive amount of muck -

Their dirty secret is out!
 BelleVedere 05 Sep 2014
In reply to ByEek:

> True. But if all you are able to sell are power bars and inner tubes, not to mention all the people who will just come in for a stamp (free), then that is not good business sense. If the bulk of your work is repairs and you keep getting distracted for a few euros here or there, I can see why you might want to discourage that. Personally, I would charge a significant amount for a stamp.

indeed- if i was a bike mechanic and what i enjoyed and found satisfaction doing was working on bikes, something (maybe better paid, but mayb not) was pulling me away from that i'd sack it off.

Maybe he choose to be a bike mechanic because he liked bikes better than people, some people just aren't people people, better to admit it and concentrate on what you can do...
 dpm23 05 Sep 2014
In reply to neilh:

> I suspect that if you looked at French ambulance services, they do not have 1 -2 hours lunch breaks.Nature of the job does come into play here.

Possibly - they may have also succumbed to the ever increasing urge to call ambulances for everything. I remember when I started, you did get an hour or so a shift to relax.

To make a vague attempt to address the OP - I suppose if you want to take advantage of people coming into your shop that don't necessarily come there to buy something, then you have to have a set-up that ensures they part with their cash. That could interfere with your bread-and-butter work that pays the bills (does he have staff or is he a one-man-band?).
 manumartin 05 Sep 2014
In reply to Enty:
I've been cragging in the Rheinpfalz for 30 odd years and always stay at barenbrunnerhof. they have a 'late abseil' hot food menu which they have always offered to climbers who have had an epic in the dark. I've had a hot meal several times after midnight over the years.



OP Enty 05 Sep 2014
In reply to BelleVedere:

No maybe's.
He's a grumpy sod in the wrong job. It's a large shop with three staff doing everything a bike shop does - just not as good as the other three shops in the area who seem to do it fine and know that if they are nice to the people who want their card stamping they might possibly buy a jersey, inner tube, energy gel, new tyre, set of wheels, NEW BIKE?

E
OP Enty 05 Sep 2014
In reply to manumartin:

Just the thing I'm talking about. We got similar service in Spain last month on holiday.
Hungry at midnight, kitchen closed, no problem whatsoever to do us Paella for two and a jug of sangria.

E
 Rubbishy 05 Sep 2014
In reply to Simon4:
> It is always a source of amusement to me to see French websites

Yep. Actually. See. A. Website.

I was looking to move out there a couple of years ago to work and live and to be honest I gave up.

the real estate agents still think they drive a Lancia in some Truffaut film. all shiny pants and 3 hour lunch breaks. The websites are shit. i would be embarrassed. I did actually thin of setting up a real estate agent in Bourg with a bloody good website but it was a waste of time.

Much as he was mocked for the language Bush was right- no French word for entrepreneur. That's why we and the Germans support the fuckers

Post edited at 22:06
 Simon4 05 Sep 2014
In reply to Trangia:

> French Widows

Yes, I've met a few of them.

Quite fun, especially the grass widows.

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