UKC

Just been having a discussion with a mate about AMS(arising from the Branson case)

He said, in short, that you don't hear of people dying in the Alps from AMS. I countered by saying that, if it progressed to HAPE or HACE, it could prove fatal. He insisted that the Alps were not high enough.

Expert comments please.

Bump

In reply to mypyrex:
According to this NIH page*, it usually occurs above 2,400m asl, so I don't see why it couldn't happen in the alps.

*http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/ency/article/000133.htm

In reply to verygneiss:
Severe symptoms don't kick in till 3600m. I suppose you just spend less time at that altitude in the alps and even if you did get symptoms you can mostly get to a safe altitude more quickly. But it would be theoretically possible if you got stuck at 4k metres

In reply to mypyrex:

I helped in the evacuation of a body from the top of the Bosses ridge back in 1983. She was a south-east Asian climber who'd just collapsed and died it was put down to AMS.

In reply to mypyrex:
Tell him he's talking out of his bottom. Kenton/Branson aside, even in mild cases your physical ability to perform basic tasks - coordinating movements, clipping into stuff, abseiling, climbing down, placing feet and hands - is all reduced somewhat. You feel sick and have a blinding headache. Your condition will improve as you descend... but not if you fall off the Matterhorn.

In reply to jon et al:

All replies much along my lines of thought. TOWID(The Only Way Is Down) Thanks.

In reply to mypyrex:

Rare but has been known to happen.

In reply to mypyrex:

Tell him there's a long established research centre for high altitude problems in the Margherita hut (4552m) on top of Monte Rosa. They have no shortage of subjects!

In reply to mypyrex:
It's all down to the likelyhood of AMS developing into HACE or HAPE. The higher you go the greater the risk, among other factors. the fact is that you CAN get HACE/HAPE in the relatively low altitudes of the Alps but it's unlikely but possible.

In reply to mypyrex:
Watching the video they produced (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Da67JITMExI) it doesn't look like he has HAPE/HACE, but rather AMS severe enough to prevent a safe descent.
Perfectly possible to get HAPE in the Alps, but not many people will be vulnerable enough to altitude to get it (although most people will get AMS if not acclimatised). Rescue is excellent and treatment of HAPE/HACE is going down to the valley so probably not many people die.
See also http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/3738457

In reply to mypyrex:

I recommend reading the FREE downloadable booklet produced by Medex which is a layman's guide to Travel at High Altitude (www.medex.org.uk) which explains about Acute Mountain sickness (AMS), High Altitude Pulmonary Oedema (HAPE) & High Altitude cerebral Oedema (HAPE). If you really want Altitude Medicine Handbook in its 2003 third edition. more information try Andy Pollard and Dave Murdoch's book The High

By definition AMS is not fatal. If it progresses to HAPE or HACE it can be fatal and all three conditions can, and do, occur at altitudes found in the European Alps.

Hope this helps.

David Hillebrandt
Hon Medical Advisor to BMC