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J123409 Sep 2014
There has been a thread running about onsighting, and to be honest it all gets a bit silly really. On Saturday we went to Rhoscolyn and did Symphony Crack and were going to do something else like Icarus or Truant, when from the the top of SC we spotted some cliffs in the distance which were not in our guide, subsequently we learnt they might be called "The Range?" and be in "The Pollit guide" but thats beside the point.
We wandered over and did four routes picking lines and trying to go as direct as possible, and it was great fun. It`s ok going up when you know it`s a grade, but when you have no idea it adds a whole knew dimension, will there be holds, have I put enough gear in, if i cannot go up, will I be able to downclimb.
This was great fun, and I highly recommend it. Making my own path and not following other peoples footsteps.
Aye. Did the same last year at Raven's Crag in Langdale. Not been there before, had no guide but turns out we pottered up a lovely HS.
I honestly think if guidebooks were binned and people attempted the lines they actually liked the look of - they'd be far more psyched and probably climb far harder.
Sure, some people might die but at least climbers would be playing their part in keeping the planet's population down.
I was on a Greek beach holiday with Mrs T, and at one beach I spotted a line of rocks about 6 or 7 metres high. Spent a great day soloing as many lines as possible, and completing some only after repeated attempts. I'm pretty sure its not in any guidebook. For all I know I may have two dozen first ascents there, but none of that is important.
The joy of living in Canada: I can easily find rock where there hasn't been a guide book written. Of course, I often have to quest for placements, and even holds, under layers of dirt, lichen, etc. At least at an established crag, you have a good idea of where a line may go just from obvious travel on it -- even if you have no idea of grade.
My mate & I had a great time 'new routing' in the Chalamain Gap, Cairngorms at Easter. Not in any guide book apparently & I think it should stay that way. I lead obvious lines up to around VDiff/Severe (obviously climbed before). Then I backed off one because it got steep, thin & light on gear. Good job I did. My limit is VS 4c atm. I top roped it & there was no more gear until after a fierce crux that I just managed. Failure on lead would have been a 4-5m ground fall. It was at least HVS.
Remember all the early pioneers were on their own, with no or rubbish gear & they did not die, they relied upon their skill & judgement. I think that unless you are an obsessive guide book reader (I am) you could have a great time even at Stanage on a weekday without a guide & pick your own climbs on sight.
Good novelty potentially, a way to make a dreary venue feel adventurous. But if you're into doing the best routes, right at your limit, then a guidebook to a good crag is the way forward.
> Then again, not having the guide might mean you end up trying stuff right at your limit which otherwise you wouldn't have attempted?
My first and only E1 lead was due to misreading the guide and following the most obvious line on the crag - which unfortunately (fortunately?) wasn't the VS I was supposed to be doing...
> Good novelty potentially, a way to make a dreary venue feel adventurous. But if you're into doing the best routes, right at your limit, then a guidebook to a good crag is the way forward.
Surely "best" is entirely subjective and different people will judge quality in different ways?
You can climb at your limit without a guidebook and it will probably make you better all round climber IMO.
but now you know you can climb E1
I always find any route I do as a soft option always feels harder than I expect! so might as well do the harder one and know what youre getting into
> Then again, not having the guide might mean you end up trying stuff right at your limit which otherwise you wouldn't have attempted?
Well if I was an amazing climber, I might ab down into Stackpole and start picking off lines that looked about E3/4, but I'm simply not good enough, and it most likely would end in tears/drowning.
> and it will probably make you better all round climber IMO.
Yeah, certainly, but you need to be brilliant and very very confident in the first place. I'm not in that class, and I think "just have a potter down Main Cliff and have a go at the lines down there, see how you do" is spectacularly bad advice. You're right, I could end up getting up one of the E5s (if I didn't already know where they went!) but more likely it would be an horrendous epic involving retreat and escape as the tide came in...
I'm with you Jon. Most crags developed in increments for good reason that would include extra risks like problematic rock, flora and fauna, natural cul-de-sacs, access issues , etc. I love exploring stuff but I get much less done and rarely get the satisfaction of being pushed as on a clean classic with a grade that suits. Some of the posters here seem to be romanticising things a bit about who this would suit. The average punter isnt going to get anywhere near their limit on undeveloped cliffs and might even get stuck or hurt. Climbing short clean lines on, say, a popular grit crag is often great fun but needs a healthy safety margin (as advised above) and is hardly major exploration.
You climb as much obscure stuff as we do and from time to time the target VS will be E1 anyhow due to bad grades so you dont need to mistake lines to climb E1 as a VS leader.
In reply to Offwidth: Also, the really great routes are ones which don't look like they'll go at the grade. When you look across at Mastodon pictured above, there's absolutely no way of knowing whether the apparently blank wall is E2 or E6. These are the great routes, and to do one as an average joe climber, a guidebook as essential a piece of kit as a rope and harness.
I've nothing against pottering along an outcrop without a book, accepting that for the price of getting on crap routes, not finishing stuff, doing easy stuff etc there's a bit of the thrill of the unknown. But if I want to have a great day on a big cliff, I know what I'm packing in my rucksack!
In reply to Jon Stewart: Agreed: all my favorite long routes looked way too hard for the grade they are. Funny really as many of my favorite short ones and problems are often the exact opposite .
Yep -- Definitely a great climbing experience -- I had 5 years fun on the cliffs of the Emirates - and having an experienced mate who could lead stuff I'd bottle out of certainly helped. I was privileged to be able to discover new crags and 'open them up' or repeating friends routes that had only seen a couple of ascents with only an idea of the line and rough grade.
Coming back to the UK and only having disused quarries plastered in chalky dabs on my doorstep was a bit of an anticlimax.
When opportunity arises with the right skill set at hand it should be grabbed quickly. This can still be at a pretty low level: as an example we saw and climbed a new 40m HVD on perfect rock in the Sinai 5 minues from the camp site climbers use, but that's not what some on this thread are implying. There is unclaimed exploratory stuff around in the UK, especially sea cliffs and the wilds of Scotland and some guidebooks mention crags left undescribed for explorers.
Main Wall at Cyrn Las is a good example - looks utterly implausible to head up there at Hard Severe. Yet, it's maybe the best HS I've ever been on. Totally the opposite of heading up a crack on the west coast of Scotland hoping it's a VS but after gardening a skip's worth of crap... just VDiff. For me tho, as most of the grit crags are new to me this year, pottering along and looking at lines you fancy is liberating. You know they'll be clean(ish) and often as not can tell if there's gear where you need it. Had my arse kicked a few times so far but I'm learning.
" My mate and I would choose outcrops that you can see from the road, few more than 50' high, not really crags. That was to avoid crowds. Because we didn't know what to expect grade or protection wise, we soon learned to top rope them. We must have put up lots of new "routes", Didn't think that they were worth claiming. So if you come across an outcrop with channel peg in the top, that was probably us."
