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Hi All,
The boulder at the top of the crag that you jump from to access the top of the Isolated Buttress has worked loose.
This is dangerous and climbs on the Isolated Buttress should be avoided until we can find a resolution. Harrisons Rocks Management Group are aware and will arrange for appropriate signage asap.
Best Regards
Adrian
The boulder at the top of the crag that you jump from to access the top of the Isolated Buttress has worked loose.
This is dangerous and climbs on the Isolated Buttress should be avoided until we can find a resolution. Harrisons Rocks Management Group are aware and will arrange for appropriate signage asap.
Best Regards
Adrian
In reply to Sandstone Stickman:
Thanks for the warning.
Is that the boulder with a "foot" groove worn into it? Sounds nasty, I've always considered that to be rock solid (no pun intended)
Thanks for the warning.
Is that the boulder with a "foot" groove worn into it? Sounds nasty, I've always considered that to be rock solid (no pun intended)
In reply to Sandstone Stickman:
Wow! Never considered that it could come loose! not in my lifetime anyway. will have to solo up and base jump off until a solution is found!
Wow! Never considered that it could come loose! not in my lifetime anyway. will have to solo up and base jump off until a solution is found!
In reply to Ian Bentley:
I was about to set up a belay there on Monday morning. Crag almost deserted but a couple of climbers passed by and said they'd seen something on the web around midnight about a loose rock. I took up the rope and there indeed was the jumping rock tilted forward, with the back edge maybe 5 or 10mm clear of the ground. Almost used it nonetheless but decided against. Hope a not too costly way can be found to secure it. Replacement with some man made platform or bridge (ugh!) would be a sad loss.
I was about to set up a belay there on Monday morning. Crag almost deserted but a couple of climbers passed by and said they'd seen something on the web around midnight about a loose rock. I took up the rope and there indeed was the jumping rock tilted forward, with the back edge maybe 5 or 10mm clear of the ground. Almost used it nonetheless but decided against. Hope a not too costly way can be found to secure it. Replacement with some man made platform or bridge (ugh!) would be a sad loss.
In reply to michael.spackman:
Agreed, let's not even THINK of a bridge! It would be an appalling solution. The jump has always been part of the character of the Isolated Buttress.
> Hope a not too costly way can be found to secure it. Replacement with some man made platform or bridge (ugh!) would be a sad loss.
Agreed, let's not even THINK of a bridge! It would be an appalling solution. The jump has always been part of the character of the Isolated Buttress.
In reply to Trangia:
The rock you jump from has / is being destroyed. I'm not sure if this will leave a feasible jump or not. A bridge would be preferable to more accidents or the loss of these climbs to the majority IMO. Isolated butress has too insecure a finish for most people to solo the 4c route.
https://www.facebook.com/lyndsey.murray.1029/posts/10154645255600486?notif_...
The rock you jump from has / is being destroyed. I'm not sure if this will leave a feasible jump or not. A bridge would be preferable to more accidents or the loss of these climbs to the majority IMO. Isolated butress has too insecure a finish for most people to solo the 4c route.
https://www.facebook.com/lyndsey.murray.1029/posts/10154645255600486?notif_...
Post edited at 09:30
In reply to CurlyStevo:
I didn't mean don't repair/renew the jumping off rock, just don't make a bridge if that can be avoided. Without having seen it, it's difficult to know if repair is possible.
Yes, if it's utterly impossible to repair/replace, then a bridge would be the only solution, but that would be sad.
You say "destroyed" - is vandalism suspected as the cause?
What on earth is the guy in your photo doing?
I didn't mean don't repair/renew the jumping off rock, just don't make a bridge if that can be avoided. Without having seen it, it's difficult to know if repair is possible.
Yes, if it's utterly impossible to repair/replace, then a bridge would be the only solution, but that would be sad.
You say "destroyed" - is vandalism suspected as the cause?
What on earth is the guy in your photo doing?
In reply to CurlyStevo:
Couldn't it be pinned with a metal rod, e.g., drill a vertical hole through the boulder into the underlying buttress, insert steel rod and cement in place?
Couldn't it be pinned with a metal rod, e.g., drill a vertical hole through the boulder into the underlying buttress, insert steel rod and cement in place?
In reply to Trangia:
I think he is partially destroying the wobbly block before fully destroying it in the near future. Comments on another FB page say
"The boulder is shifting towards the passage and rocked when you stepped across. Stepping back is much worse so the boulder will be broken up in a controlled manner on Friday."
I think he is partially destroying the wobbly block before fully destroying it in the near future. Comments on another FB page say
"The boulder is shifting towards the passage and rocked when you stepped across. Stepping back is much worse so the boulder will be broken up in a controlled manner on Friday."
Post edited at 10:06
In reply to John Stainforth:
yes destroying the block does seem a bit drastic, but I'm not the expert on these matters.
yes destroying the block does seem a bit drastic, but I'm not the expert on these matters.
In reply to CurlyStevo:
I inspected the boulder last night and it is extremely dangerous. Various options such as pinning (the boulder is too small to do this) and underpinning with a brick plinth (dangerous to do the work directly beneath the boulder and no guarantee it would stop it sliding)were considered but in the end the only safe action is to break the boulder into pieces. Last night I knocked the front off the boulder to make sure no-one uses it to cross and later in the week we will finish the work. This will leave us with an issue regarding future access to the isolated buttress - why not come along to the open meeting on Sunday the 5th of October at Bowles Outdoor Pursuits Centre and help us discuss it ?
Tim Skinner, Chair of Harrison's Rocks Management Group.
I inspected the boulder last night and it is extremely dangerous. Various options such as pinning (the boulder is too small to do this) and underpinning with a brick plinth (dangerous to do the work directly beneath the boulder and no guarantee it would stop it sliding)were considered but in the end the only safe action is to break the boulder into pieces. Last night I knocked the front off the boulder to make sure no-one uses it to cross and later in the week we will finish the work. This will leave us with an issue regarding future access to the isolated buttress - why not come along to the open meeting on Sunday the 5th of October at Bowles Outdoor Pursuits Centre and help us discuss it ?
Tim Skinner, Chair of Harrison's Rocks Management Group.
In reply to Tim Skinner:
I'll make that if I have a car by then, which currently I do not unfortunately.
It is a shame to loose the block and have to destroy it, I've been jumping that gap for 20 years on and off. I suspected you would have already considered the options and not taken to destroying it lightly.
I'll make that if I have a car by then, which currently I do not unfortunately.
It is a shame to loose the block and have to destroy it, I've been jumping that gap for 20 years on and off. I suspected you would have already considered the options and not taken to destroying it lightly.
Post edited at 12:21
In reply to CurlyStevo:
Me too, for 50 years! But I'm condfident that those who made the decision considered all the options and knew what they were doing. You only have to think of the pressure that that block comes under with the numbers of people making the jump!
Bob
Me too, for 50 years! But I'm condfident that those who made the decision considered all the options and knew what they were doing. You only have to think of the pressure that that block comes under with the numbers of people making the jump!
Bob
In reply to Sandstone Stickman:
There is of course a third option, which could be used right now for setting up a top-rope, without going near the old jump: soloing the 'Boulder Bridge Route' (2b). It's a quite easy but very interesting solo (also quite a long climb). It would require a bit more 'courage' in descent - after you've removed the belay
There is of course a third option, which could be used right now for setting up a top-rope, without going near the old jump: soloing the 'Boulder Bridge Route' (2b). It's a quite easy but very interesting solo (also quite a long climb). It would require a bit more 'courage' in descent - after you've removed the belay
1
In reply to Gordon Stainforth:
The top part of Boulder Bridge Route is described in both the Sandstone Code of Practice and in the current CC guide as a way of approaching the Isolated Buttress from the top that avoids the jump. In my view, it's OK in descent, but as with the Isolated Boulder at High Rocks, some may prefer to go up it in the first place to get to know the moves. Views may differ as to how suitable this would be for regular use, but no doubt this option will be considered in the debate that will now take place to find a solution.
The top part of Boulder Bridge Route is described in both the Sandstone Code of Practice and in the current CC guide as a way of approaching the Isolated Buttress from the top that avoids the jump. In my view, it's OK in descent, but as with the Isolated Boulder at High Rocks, some may prefer to go up it in the first place to get to know the moves. Views may differ as to how suitable this would be for regular use, but no doubt this option will be considered in the debate that will now take place to find a solution.
In reply to Bob Moulton:
Concur with all that. I remember it being quite fun, and definitely descended it as well (knowing the moves in ascent).
Concur with all that. I remember it being quite fun, and definitely descended it as well (knowing the moves in ascent).
In reply to Bob Moulton:
The Isolated Boulder at High Rocks was quite a bit harder, but you could get a runner on a small tree at half height.
The Isolated Boulder at High Rocks was quite a bit harder, but you could get a runner on a small tree at half height.
In reply to Sandstone Stickman:
this has been on the move for sometime, I usually solo the bridge route up and down, but a lot of traffic doing that may erode the good ledges, but would also reduce the overall traffic anyway, which is a good thing.
this has been on the move for sometime, I usually solo the bridge route up and down, but a lot of traffic doing that may erode the good ledges, but would also reduce the overall traffic anyway, which is a good thing.
In reply to Krustythebrown:
Of course, you can always solo Isolated Buttress Climb I did that once and found it surprisingly scary, even though I'd done it before many times on a top rope.
Of course, you can always solo Isolated Buttress Climb I did that once and found it surprisingly scary, even though I'd done it before many times on a top rope.
In reply to Gordon Stainforth:
I wonder if the most 'climber friendly' solution, for middle graders and newcomers as well as regular higher graders, might be a via ferrata type steel ladder, on the back face of course. Just a thought, in the hope that it won't be forgotten in the debate.
I wonder if the most 'climber friendly' solution, for middle graders and newcomers as well as regular higher graders, might be a via ferrata type steel ladder, on the back face of course. Just a thought, in the hope that it won't be forgotten in the debate.
In reply to michael.spackman:
Or, maybe something less permanent, like a caving ladder hung down the back wall towards the west end?
Or, maybe something less permanent, like a caving ladder hung down the back wall towards the west end?
In reply to Sandstone Stickman:
Having now seen the photos and read Tim Skinner's comments, I suspect that a timber bridge will be the only safe way forward here. Some of the best climbs at Harrison's are on the IB.
I know a number of people, even good climbers, who used to balk at making the jump, and used to ask to be lowered off when they topped out. If the descent is going to involve an easy but significantly exposed down climb, I suspect this will lead to even more people wanting to be lowered off.
Lowering off is to be discouraged because of the increased rope and foot wear against the rock.
Having now seen the photos and read Tim Skinner's comments, I suspect that a timber bridge will be the only safe way forward here. Some of the best climbs at Harrison's are on the IB.
I know a number of people, even good climbers, who used to balk at making the jump, and used to ask to be lowered off when they topped out. If the descent is going to involve an easy but significantly exposed down climb, I suspect this will lead to even more people wanting to be lowered off.
Lowering off is to be discouraged because of the increased rope and foot wear against the rock.
In reply to Trangia:
Yeah I'll be at harrisons tomorrow probably, if so I'll take a look at it. I might even do some climbs on IB if the solo up isn't too crazy looking. Damp/green sandstone chimney solos are not really my forte
Yeah I'll be at harrisons tomorrow probably, if so I'll take a look at it. I might even do some climbs on IB if the solo up isn't too crazy looking. Damp/green sandstone chimney solos are not really my forte
Post edited at 10:00
In reply to Sandstone Stickman:
Whatever solution is decided upon, it should not encourage or increase the tendency for some climbers to lower off. This would be a hugely damaging situation.
As always, education is key and climbers should be vigilant to ensure that the practice does not happen.
The 'step' was in many ways a great leveller, discouraging less capable climbers from attempting climbs on the Isolated Buttress...
Cheers,
Graham.
Whatever solution is decided upon, it should not encourage or increase the tendency for some climbers to lower off. This would be a hugely damaging situation.
As always, education is key and climbers should be vigilant to ensure that the practice does not happen.
The 'step' was in many ways a great leveller, discouraging less capable climbers from attempting climbs on the Isolated Buttress...
Cheers,
Graham.
In reply to Graham Ad:
What about down climbing the route they went up or one of a similar grade? I am personally against it as it inevitably wears the routes more, only recognised descent routes should be regularly down climbed in my view.
What about down climbing the route they went up or one of a similar grade? I am personally against it as it inevitably wears the routes more, only recognised descent routes should be regularly down climbed in my view.
In reply to CurlyStevo:
You don't need to solo the chimney, as you can to get down to the top of the boulder from the tree on the 'mainland' side at the top. I don't think this will be made any more difficult by the work that Tim is doing 'by the end of the week' (today, I think) to knock off the now dangerous landing foothold for the jump.
Please let us know how you get on. The more views on this approach, which will be all that is available in the short term, the better - and all users at Harrison's will be strongly encouraged to challenge anyone seen lowering-off! If the decision is made to put up a bridge, this is bound to take time to implement, especially given the insurance and safety implications.
Bob
You don't need to solo the chimney, as you can to get down to the top of the boulder from the tree on the 'mainland' side at the top. I don't think this will be made any more difficult by the work that Tim is doing 'by the end of the week' (today, I think) to knock off the now dangerous landing foothold for the jump.
Please let us know how you get on. The more views on this approach, which will be all that is available in the short term, the better - and all users at Harrison's will be strongly encouraged to challenge anyone seen lowering-off! If the decision is made to put up a bridge, this is bound to take time to implement, especially given the insurance and safety implications.
Bob
In reply to Bob Moulton:
I thought (from a picture someone posted earlier) that the loose rock had now been pulled back from the edge? I see no need then to break it up. It's a piece of sandstone heritage. But I guess the deed is now done.
I fear that in these over regulated times it will be a bridge. But I hope the steel or caving ladder options, towards the west end of the back wall, won't be forgotten. This would be at least a slight deterrent to excessive traffic. (And a bit more fun to use.)
I thought (from a picture someone posted earlier) that the loose rock had now been pulled back from the edge? I see no need then to break it up. It's a piece of sandstone heritage. But I guess the deed is now done.
I fear that in these over regulated times it will be a bridge. But I hope the steel or caving ladder options, towards the west end of the back wall, won't be forgotten. This would be at least a slight deterrent to excessive traffic. (And a bit more fun to use.)
In reply to Gordon Stainforth:
Well thats the nature of the sport isn't it? Id personally prefer there to be access like the Hut Boulder at High Rock, Solo it to get the rope u, solo down... there is always the bridged boulder on the southern end..
Well thats the nature of the sport isn't it? Id personally prefer there to be access like the Hut Boulder at High Rock, Solo it to get the rope u, solo down... there is always the bridged boulder on the southern end..
In reply to Krustythebrown:
To sum up: there are a number of options. Personally I'd like to see the solution as making the approach to the Isolated Buttress as having either the same level of difficulty as it used to be or a bit harder, but not easier!
To remind anyone who has views on the subject that the matter will be fully dicussed at the Sandstone Open Meeting at Bowles on Sunday (5th Oct) at the open meeting, 6:30 pm for 7:00 pm.
Bob
To sum up: there are a number of options. Personally I'd like to see the solution as making the approach to the Isolated Buttress as having either the same level of difficulty as it used to be or a bit harder, but not easier!
To remind anyone who has views on the subject that the matter will be fully dicussed at the Sandstone Open Meeting at Bowles on Sunday (5th Oct) at the open meeting, 6:30 pm for 7:00 pm.
Bob
In reply to Bob Moulton:
I don't agree. As has been stated, unless it can be reinstated to exactly how it was (which I understand is unlkely to happen), any non bridge solution making the approach (or exit) as difficult or any more difficult, will merely encourage more lowering off to the detriment of the rock. I think this needs to be discouraged because long term protection of the rock is what really matters here.
Unfortunately I am unable to be at the meeing on Sunday, but I should like this point of view discussed.
> To sum up: there are a number of options. Personally I'd like to see the solution as making the approach to the Isolated Buttress as having either the same level of difficulty as it used to be or a bit harder, but not easier!
> To remind anyone who has views on the subject that the matter will be fully dicussed at the Sandstone Open Meeting at Bowles on Sunday (5th Oct) at the open meeting, 6:30 pm for 7:00 pm.
> Bob
I don't agree. As has been stated, unless it can be reinstated to exactly how it was (which I understand is unlkely to happen), any non bridge solution making the approach (or exit) as difficult or any more difficult, will merely encourage more lowering off to the detriment of the rock. I think this needs to be discouraged because long term protection of the rock is what really matters here.
Unfortunately I am unable to be at the meeing on Sunday, but I should like this point of view discussed.
In reply to Trangia:
It will be discussed at the meeting, and there others that share your view.
We will also be discussing the issues raised in your Sandstone Erosion thread. Personally, as someone who started climbing on Sandstone in 1960, I disagree with your statement that the ersoion has got worse over the last ten years, but I fully accept that we need everthing possible to stop further erosion, and that includes not lowering-off. One way of doing this would be a campaign to encourage all Sandstone climbers to challenge the practice wherever it takes place. This doesn't happen enough at present.
It will be discussed at the meeting, and there others that share your view.
We will also be discussing the issues raised in your Sandstone Erosion thread. Personally, as someone who started climbing on Sandstone in 1960, I disagree with your statement that the ersoion has got worse over the last ten years, but I fully accept that we need everthing possible to stop further erosion, and that includes not lowering-off. One way of doing this would be a campaign to encourage all Sandstone climbers to challenge the practice wherever it takes place. This doesn't happen enough at present.
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