UKC

For academic purposes only...

I was taking a look at Mammut's project 360 of the Nordwand and I noticed they grade the Hinterstoisser traverse at VII-. I guess it's a UIAA grade (?). Couldn't find any other reference to the difficulty, so I was wondering if this sounded correct? Sounds quite tough for me for 1938, but hey, all of it seems pretty impossible to me anyway.

In reply to drolex:

I think it used to be T2 (tension traverse grade scale) in 1936.

Very smooth waterwashed limestone so VII- about 5c probably correct.

Winter grade very dependant on ice cover.

In reply to drolex:

Might be the winter grade? Also maybe Hinterstoisser aided it?

In reply to humptydumpty:


I always thought they put gear in higher and up and he swung across on the rope until he was able to get far enough across to handholds/ security?

Thus the other climbers came through and crucially they pulled the rope.
This meant when they they retreated they could not retrace their steps across the traverse hence they had to abseil straight down (to their deaths)

or am i getting the stories of two ascents mixed up?

In reply to chrisbaggy:

nope, that's the story.

In reply to Rick Graham:

Ah yes 1936, not 1938 of course. VII- is only 5c though? I thought it was more around 6b, but I guess it still depends a lot about the snow conditions. Still damn impressive given the equipment at the time.

In reply to chrisbaggy:

I was specifically trying to understand how they did that exactly but the pictures don't give a very detailed idea (which is not a bad thing in the end). It still blows my mind!

In reply to drolex:

I thought it was a sort of pendulum traverse, I'm not sure exactly how it was done on the Eiger. The relevant bit of White Spider either isn't very clear or isn't well translated:

"This technique of the "rope-traverse" had already been discovered and developed before the First World War by that master of rock-climbing, Hans Dülfer... In this way Dülfer showed how to link climbable pitches by the use of a diagonal "lift" from the rope on unclimbable ones."

In reply to James FR:

I always understood it as a pendulum too, but the traverse looks very, very long for that. I reckon it must be a "classic" traverse with a pendulum at the end?

In reply to drolex:

The modern phrase would be "tension traverse", i.e. you walk across the rock whilst leaning against the pull of the rope and using whatever handholds and footholds appear.

The Hinterstoisser traverse itself is across a shield of rock that's about 80 degrees in steepness, I seem to remember it being about 15 metres or so across. The holds that do exist face to the left so help in going leftwards but aren't much use in the opposite direction which is one of the reasons the 1936 party couldn't get back.

In reply to Bob:

Thanks for the explanation !

In reply to James FR: While were on the subject,if im correct in saying when ueli steck speed soloed the ascent he didnt use the ropes,so how did he actually cross it.Ive never found any footage of that section.It does seem to be very long for a tension traverse in such bad conditions.

In reply to drolex:

is the traverse protected by fixed ropes ?

In reply to drolex:

In reply to nation1:


It is apparently (according to mammut's stuff, that's what I understand at least), but how reliable are these now... Anyway I can only imagine doing the tension traverse thingy if I have taken spare trousers in my bag (one of them, I'd need another one for the traverse of the gods)

I'm sure the non-punters among us can give more details.

In reply to HeMa:

Ahhhhhh!

In reply to nation1:
I think the situation varies, when we did it (1985) there were two maybe three ropes on it but they disappeared in to ice fairly quickly.

Edit: Traverse of the Gods is similar to the Eastern Traverse on Tower Ridge - technically easy but in a pretty exposed position. As a UK winter grade it'd be I/II

In reply to Bob:



I have done the Eastern Traverse, summer and winter, several times.

There is no way it compares to the TOTG.

Sixty degree scree in July 1990.

In reply to Rick Graham:
55deg snow in Aug 1985, but it did have some slow American climbers to climb over

In reply to Bob:

Eastern Traverse can be 5 degree snow.

In reply to drolex:


English 5c, though I yarded across on the ropes, never gave it a thought about freeing it.

In reply to drolex:

Today, the traverse is equipped with fixed ropes and hence trivial if they are not covered by ice and trustworthy. If there is a solid snow or ice cover, then it's usually not that big a deal too, even without access to the ropes. Sometimes, bits of them sticking out can at least be used for protection.

In this situation, and given the fact that the '38 route is only climbed in winter these days, the rock grade of the traverse is somewhat irrelevant. AFAIR Kaspar Ochsner, the legendary Swiss climber did it free in rockshoes and said that it was about 7a - take that with a grain of salt though.