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Hello all, I'm planning my first foray into the world of Scottish winter climbing this season. I'm currently acquiring second hand axes, boots etc. to complement my trad rack, but I'm pretty clueless about how to dress. I've done a few winter Munros in my standard walking gear (waterproof shell, thin softshell + axe and crampons), but I've no idea if this gear is transferable to the grade I/II I want to climb. Any suggestions/tips are welcome, especially with regards to keeping costs down, as all this winter gear is pricey!
In reply to verygneiss:
If you have done some winter walking wear that kit, will be fine on I/II routes. A synthetic jacket to throw on when standing around is a good investment and doesn't have to be expensive, but generally, just see how you get on and think about kit a bit more once you have some more experience.
If you have done some winter walking wear that kit, will be fine on I/II routes. A synthetic jacket to throw on when standing around is a good investment and doesn't have to be expensive, but generally, just see how you get on and think about kit a bit more once you have some more experience.
In reply to verygneiss:
I would get a down/duvet jacket for the really cold/windy days. The former is fine if you wear it under your waterproof. Also take a good looks at gloves, mitts, balaclava.
I would get a down/duvet jacket for the really cold/windy days. The former is fine if you wear it under your waterproof. Also take a good looks at gloves, mitts, balaclava.
1
In reply to verygneiss:
This is a good read but you wont need all this if you stomping up a grade I:
http://www.ukclimbing.com/gear/review.php?id=3284
This is a good read but you wont need all this if you stomping up a grade I:
http://www.ukclimbing.com/gear/review.php?id=3284
In reply to verygneiss:
Beware the slippery slope. You'll start with a second hand synthetic belay jacket, balaclava and refrigeration plant Arco gloves and before long you'll be agonising over the merits of the Patagonia DAS parka and ME Fitzroy. That's if you've cash spare after buying both the R1 hoody and Eclipse mid layer because they're basically the same thing and everyone wears the R1 but the Eclipse makes you look like a ninja. And then you'll want softshell trous but you find the crampons tear them just where the Kevlar patches run out so you buy some hardshell pants and walk around like you've shat yourself for fear of tearing that expensive membrane. Your B1 boots look a bit sissy so you buy a pair of B2s but those turn out to be a bit cold when you get into hanging around on belay so you invest in some Nepals which are so heavy you can't climb anything without soaking your layers in sweat...
And that's when you discover Brjyne mesh...
Beware the slippery slope. You'll start with a second hand synthetic belay jacket, balaclava and refrigeration plant Arco gloves and before long you'll be agonising over the merits of the Patagonia DAS parka and ME Fitzroy. That's if you've cash spare after buying both the R1 hoody and Eclipse mid layer because they're basically the same thing and everyone wears the R1 but the Eclipse makes you look like a ninja. And then you'll want softshell trous but you find the crampons tear them just where the Kevlar patches run out so you buy some hardshell pants and walk around like you've shat yourself for fear of tearing that expensive membrane. Your B1 boots look a bit sissy so you buy a pair of B2s but those turn out to be a bit cold when you get into hanging around on belay so you invest in some Nepals which are so heavy you can't climb anything without soaking your layers in sweat...
And that's when you discover Brjyne mesh...
2
In reply to Michael Gordon:
Avoid down like the plague......Scottish weather and down are not a good mix.
Avoid down like the plague......Scottish weather and down are not a good mix.
In reply to verygneiss:
Please adhere to the strict British Winter Clothing grade system
http://www.ukclimbing.com/forums/t.php?t=574912&v=1#x7653506
The new colour / grades will be published for the 14/15 season at the beginning of December.
cheers
Gaz
Please adhere to the strict British Winter Clothing grade system
http://www.ukclimbing.com/forums/t.php?t=574912&v=1#x7653506
The new colour / grades will be published for the 14/15 season at the beginning of December.
cheers
Gaz
Post edited at 09:13
1
In reply to verygneiss:
An extra layer, if you have not got one already. Waterproof leather gloves. Spare gloves. Gloves.
An extra layer, if you have not got one already. Waterproof leather gloves. Spare gloves. Gloves.
Post edited at 09:16
In reply to verygneiss:
Most of what you own already is likely to be fine. The biggest difference between walking and climbing clothing wise is the stop/start nature of climbing: one minute you are working hard, generating heat and sweat, the next minute you are stood still whilst your mate gets warm. That, combined with the ever present spindrift which gets *everywhere* and prevents you taking too many layers off whilst you are actually climbing are what you have to deal with.
Quite often, walking in to the crag is fairly mild so it can be worth having a spare base layer and changing your shirt just before you start climbing. It takes a bit of will power to strip off with wind and snow swirling around but having a dry base layer helps massively with heat retention.
The best strategy is to get as many layers on *as soon as you stop* so that you keep as much heat in as possible. Then when you come to start climbing again, remove what you can. You might be a bit cold to start with but you'll soon warm up. This also prevents you getting your base layers too damp (it's almost impossible to avoid them getting a bit damp).
One item that rarely gets mentioned is a neoprene face mask: it is very small (and cheap) and basically slightly warms the air before you breathe it in. You can get them at motorbike shops. Slightly claustrophobic so not for everyone.
Most of what you own already is likely to be fine. The biggest difference between walking and climbing clothing wise is the stop/start nature of climbing: one minute you are working hard, generating heat and sweat, the next minute you are stood still whilst your mate gets warm. That, combined with the ever present spindrift which gets *everywhere* and prevents you taking too many layers off whilst you are actually climbing are what you have to deal with.
Quite often, walking in to the crag is fairly mild so it can be worth having a spare base layer and changing your shirt just before you start climbing. It takes a bit of will power to strip off with wind and snow swirling around but having a dry base layer helps massively with heat retention.
The best strategy is to get as many layers on *as soon as you stop* so that you keep as much heat in as possible. Then when you come to start climbing again, remove what you can. You might be a bit cold to start with but you'll soon warm up. This also prevents you getting your base layers too damp (it's almost impossible to avoid them getting a bit damp).
One item that rarely gets mentioned is a neoprene face mask: it is very small (and cheap) and basically slightly warms the air before you breathe it in. You can get them at motorbike shops. Slightly claustrophobic so not for everyone.
In reply to smuffy:
You'll probably find a lot of conflicting advice along these lines. Personally I find a down jacket with an adequate DWR shell perfectly fine for scottish winter conditions. I also favour a softshell combo over the traditional bullet-proof hardshells, which I find overkill most of the time.
> Avoid down like the plague......Scottish weather and down are not a good mix.
You'll probably find a lot of conflicting advice along these lines. Personally I find a down jacket with an adequate DWR shell perfectly fine for scottish winter conditions. I also favour a softshell combo over the traditional bullet-proof hardshells, which I find overkill most of the time.
In reply to verygneiss:
Gloves, gloves and more gloves. Get a good pair of thick belay/ seconding gloves as well as pair of thinner leading gloves (Rab baltoro style). I find that a pair of cheap synthetic fibre gloves like the ones you find in most "accessory" sections of clothes shops make for good inner gloves.
Other than the kit you have already, get a synthetic belay jacket (60-100D primaloft one) and you'll be good to go.
Gloves, gloves and more gloves. Get a good pair of thick belay/ seconding gloves as well as pair of thinner leading gloves (Rab baltoro style). I find that a pair of cheap synthetic fibre gloves like the ones you find in most "accessory" sections of clothes shops make for good inner gloves.
Other than the kit you have already, get a synthetic belay jacket (60-100D primaloft one) and you'll be good to go.
In reply to J_Trottet:
I second this! More gloves than you think you need.
Don't end up like me, just getting more and more tops as you think it'll be useful. They will be, but your missus will start to ask why exactly you need 3 different primaloft tops, some softshells and some hardshells, all when you live in Devon and winter is bloody miles away!
I second this! More gloves than you think you need.
Don't end up like me, just getting more and more tops as you think it'll be useful. They will be, but your missus will start to ask why exactly you need 3 different primaloft tops, some softshells and some hardshells, all when you live in Devon and winter is bloody miles away!
In reply to verygneiss:
It's not rocket science - you need some clothes that are going to be warmish if they get a bit wet. You need something to keep the rain off if it's tipping down on the walk in. Layers work well. I find buffs invaluable for temperature control and stopping spindrift going down my collar.
If you're going to spend some money, spend it on gloves - I always wear a very thin one-size fits all inner (under £10) because a) they keep your hands warmer and b) trying to get a damp hand into a glove is well-nigh impossible. Avoid big squishy ski gloves and do for something made for climbing - probably around the &70 mark. Others will say freezer gloves, but I've never tried them. BD Punishers are the best I've used so far - but I don't know if they still make them
It's not rocket science - you need some clothes that are going to be warmish if they get a bit wet. You need something to keep the rain off if it's tipping down on the walk in. Layers work well. I find buffs invaluable for temperature control and stopping spindrift going down my collar.
If you're going to spend some money, spend it on gloves - I always wear a very thin one-size fits all inner (under £10) because a) they keep your hands warmer and b) trying to get a damp hand into a glove is well-nigh impossible. Avoid big squishy ski gloves and do for something made for climbing - probably around the &70 mark. Others will say freezer gloves, but I've never tried them. BD Punishers are the best I've used so far - but I don't know if they still make them
In reply to verygneiss:
Since you've already done some winter walking and are starting out on Grade 1 and 2's you'll be fine with your winter walking gear.
Maybe an extra pair or two of cheap work gloves, thermal longjohns and cheap synthetic belay jacket.
After your first season or two you'll have a better idea of what works or doesn't.
Since you've already done some winter walking and are starting out on Grade 1 and 2's you'll be fine with your winter walking gear.
Maybe an extra pair or two of cheap work gloves, thermal longjohns and cheap synthetic belay jacket.
After your first season or two you'll have a better idea of what works or doesn't.
Post edited at 11:07
In reply to verygneiss:
Come over to the dark side and get a buffalo shirt & powerstretch balaclava.
Come over to the dark side and get a buffalo shirt & powerstretch balaclava.
In reply to verygneiss:
Flexible systems that adjust for the hard work on the approach (so you dont sweat excessively dehydration/sweat damp and winter climbing are not a good combination) and will in combination wick water out so you dont get cold on the belay. Fancy expensive stuff isnt required although good glove systems are maybe an exception (unless you enjoy hot aches .
Flexible systems that adjust for the hard work on the approach (so you dont sweat excessively dehydration/sweat damp and winter climbing are not a good combination) and will in combination wick water out so you dont get cold on the belay. Fancy expensive stuff isnt required although good glove systems are maybe an exception (unless you enjoy hot aches .
In reply to verygneiss:
You're walking stuff will be fine for grade I/II stuff, although i'd echo the comments about buying multiple pairs of gloves. You'll find loads of opinions/advice on the best glove system but just experiment and find out what works for you. I usually take a thin pair of £1 magic gloves for the walk in, then wear a pair of pile gloves while climbing (not super dextrous but I get cold hands otherwise) and then a pair of belay mitts to wear, well on belays!
A belay jacket isn't strictly necessary at low grade stuff, you really shouldn't be standing still long enough on belays to warrant one. However they are nice on those long, lonely belays when your partners on a hard pitch!
You're walking stuff will be fine for grade I/II stuff, although i'd echo the comments about buying multiple pairs of gloves. You'll find loads of opinions/advice on the best glove system but just experiment and find out what works for you. I usually take a thin pair of £1 magic gloves for the walk in, then wear a pair of pile gloves while climbing (not super dextrous but I get cold hands otherwise) and then a pair of belay mitts to wear, well on belays!
A belay jacket isn't strictly necessary at low grade stuff, you really shouldn't be standing still long enough on belays to warrant one. However they are nice on those long, lonely belays when your partners on a hard pitch!
In reply to Offwidth:
Or you just don't get them...
> Fancy expensive stuff isnt required although good glove systems are maybe an exception (unless you enjoy hot aches .
Or you just don't get them...
1
In reply to smuffy:
Oft repeated nonsense. Down has its place for British winter climbing - you just need to know its limitations...
> Avoid down like the plague......Scottish weather and down are not a good mix.
Oft repeated nonsense. Down has its place for British winter climbing - you just need to know its limitations...
In reply to verygneiss:
All your gloves don't need to be expensive either. I have an awesome pair of German army surplus mitts with goatskin palm and a pile lining. They cost me £5, 10 years ago and are indestructible. I recently seen the same and lobster claw versions on sale on ebay for less than £15. I think a decent pair of goggles is also a good idea.
All your gloves don't need to be expensive either. I have an awesome pair of German army surplus mitts with goatskin palm and a pile lining. They cost me £5, 10 years ago and are indestructible. I recently seen the same and lobster claw versions on sale on ebay for less than £15. I think a decent pair of goggles is also a good idea.
In reply to BnB:
Love it! You've just described it exactly but would like to add once you've discovered the Nepals are too heavy you buy some Phantom Guides,
Love it! You've just described it exactly but would like to add once you've discovered the Nepals are too heavy you buy some Phantom Guides,
In reply to Andy Hewison:
I think it's important to enjoy all the fretting about layering systems and moisture transportation because you're going to spend more time doing that than you are climbing ice!
I think it's important to enjoy all the fretting about layering systems and moisture transportation because you're going to spend more time doing that than you are climbing ice!
In reply to GPN:
And as a beginner the op is unlikely to know the limitations of down..............best that he doesn't have to learn the hard and costly way.
> Oft repeated nonsense. Down has its place for British winter climbing - you just need to know its limitations...
And as a beginner the op is unlikely to know the limitations of down..............best that he doesn't have to learn the hard and costly way.
In reply to planetmarshall:
Hardly common or good advice for a beginner.
As for anothet point above, even cheapish glove systems are expensive when you count the need for spares. Dachsteins are great cheap outer gloves too. Never worn them out and in some conditions they almost stick to the iced rock.
Hardly common or good advice for a beginner.
As for anothet point above, even cheapish glove systems are expensive when you count the need for spares. Dachsteins are great cheap outer gloves too. Never worn them out and in some conditions they almost stick to the iced rock.
In reply to smuffy:
My jacket is still going strong and I've been using it for Scottish winter climbing for almost 10 years. As I say, wear it under your waterproof and there's no problem.
> Avoid down like the plague......Scottish weather and down are not a good mix.
My jacket is still going strong and I've been using it for Scottish winter climbing for almost 10 years. As I say, wear it under your waterproof and there's no problem.
In reply to smuffy:
Not as effective if it gets wet. There, now he knows.
> And as a beginner the op is unlikely to know the limitations of down...
Not as effective if it gets wet. There, now he knows.
In reply to GPN:
Absolutely right: just don't bet your life on being able to use it outside in UK winter conditions and you'll be fine.
> Oft repeated nonsense. Down has its place for British winter climbing - you just need to know its limitations...
Absolutely right: just don't bet your life on being able to use it outside in UK winter conditions and you'll be fine.
In reply to verygneiss:
Buffalo clothing is an option. In the uk, i gave up trying to stay completely dry at all times and was more than happy to stay warm and comfortable. This is an old article but it still applies today.
http://www.needlesports.com/catalogue/content.aspx?con_id=d1318703-b1cf-4db...
Buffalo clothing is an option. In the uk, i gave up trying to stay completely dry at all times and was more than happy to stay warm and comfortable. This is an old article but it still applies today.
http://www.needlesports.com/catalogue/content.aspx?con_id=d1318703-b1cf-4db...
In reply to Rod Anderson:
Love the article but how do you get to 3.5 kg in a layering system as Steven suggests? The article is over 20 years ago and perhaps clothing technology has moved on. I decided to get the scales out...
My kit:
Brjyne Mesh thermal layer 80g
ME Eclipse microgrid fleece cum baselayer 300g
Polartec Alpha Vest 275g
Goretex hardhell or Montane softshell (take only one depending on forecast) 400-500g
Montane Sabretooth Powershield Pro Pants 550g
Goretex overtrousers 250g (only on wet days)
That lot comes in at under 2kg so throw in a pair of thermal leggings.
And yes, you might (I do) want to add an oversized belay jacket at 600g. but this combination wicks and protects so well that I rarely take the 133g fill of primaloft out of the bag but for the summit and lunch stops.
Actually I'm not sure I can remember feeling wet and cold since I experimented my way to this combination.
But, as the article illustrates, we're all different and it's whatever makes you comfortable.
Love the article but how do you get to 3.5 kg in a layering system as Steven suggests? The article is over 20 years ago and perhaps clothing technology has moved on. I decided to get the scales out...
My kit:
Brjyne Mesh thermal layer 80g
ME Eclipse microgrid fleece cum baselayer 300g
Polartec Alpha Vest 275g
Goretex hardhell or Montane softshell (take only one depending on forecast) 400-500g
Montane Sabretooth Powershield Pro Pants 550g
Goretex overtrousers 250g (only on wet days)
That lot comes in at under 2kg so throw in a pair of thermal leggings.
And yes, you might (I do) want to add an oversized belay jacket at 600g. but this combination wicks and protects so well that I rarely take the 133g fill of primaloft out of the bag but for the summit and lunch stops.
Actually I'm not sure I can remember feeling wet and cold since I experimented my way to this combination.
But, as the article illustrates, we're all different and it's whatever makes you comfortable.
In reply to Rod Anderson:
Thanks for all the suggestions!
The 'pile' clothing style is something I hadn't really thought about.
I actually have a Montane Extreme smock that I was given a few years back, and it's just about the warmest thing I've ever worn. Would it be any good?
Thanks for all the suggestions!
The 'pile' clothing style is something I hadn't really thought about.
I actually have a Montane Extreme smock that I was given a few years back, and it's just about the warmest thing I've ever worn. Would it be any good?
In reply to BnB:
I wonder in twenty years which has advanced more; clothing technology, or outdoor gear marketing.............discuss
I wonder in twenty years which has advanced more; clothing technology, or outdoor gear marketing.............discuss
In reply to ScraggyGoat:
Clearly the marketing. (but not when iy comes to my kit bag)
I can't even remember the makers of much of my kit. I certainly cannot name the design.
It really, really doesn't make a blind bit of difference what or who makes the stuff, let alone the name the manufacturers give it.. Its all much the same.
Clearly the marketing. (but not when iy comes to my kit bag)
I can't even remember the makers of much of my kit. I certainly cannot name the design.
It really, really doesn't make a blind bit of difference what or who makes the stuff, let alone the name the manufacturers give it.. Its all much the same.
In reply to ScraggyGoat:
I don't think there's any doubt is there?
> I wonder in twenty years which has advanced more; clothing technology, or outdoor gear marketing.............discuss
I don't think there's any doubt is there?
In reply to BnB:
Stevens article did make a point about weight, which as you showed, may not be relevant today, as materials have improved.
There are many different ways to dress for the hill, I tried it and liked the simplicity of it. I didn't use the sallopettes though, they looked a too warm for me!
Stevens article did make a point about weight, which as you showed, may not be relevant today, as materials have improved.
There are many different ways to dress for the hill, I tried it and liked the simplicity of it. I didn't use the sallopettes though, they looked a too warm for me!
In reply to verygneiss:
I wrote this for you http://lightfromthenorth.blogspot.co.uk/2014/10/a-beginner-guide-to-clothin... OK, I didn't really, but I did take it out of a doc file and chuck it on my blog for you, so feel honoured!
I wrote this for you http://lightfromthenorth.blogspot.co.uk/2014/10/a-beginner-guide-to-clothin... OK, I didn't really, but I did take it out of a doc file and chuck it on my blog for you, so feel honoured!
In reply to verygneiss:
If you are out in the winter already you probably have enough clothing to cope when you are moving, the problem is when you are on stance for a while.
Does the montane smock have a hood and fit over your other clothing? If so you could carry it as a belay jacket.
If you have money to spend, it is most important to choose boots and gloves that you have tried on and fit really well.
If you are out in the winter already you probably have enough clothing to cope when you are moving, the problem is when you are on stance for a while.
Does the montane smock have a hood and fit over your other clothing? If so you could carry it as a belay jacket.
If you have money to spend, it is most important to choose boots and gloves that you have tried on and fit really well.
In reply to TobyA:
Toby, thanks for the article but I must pick you up on something.
Bobble hats most certainly do not look ridiculous and I challenge you to go beanie against bobble on any mountainside of your choice. Shauna Coxsey and Jenny Jones can be the expert judges.
It is a fair point that bobbles won't under helmets but, as any snowboarder knows, the bobble gives extra rebound to those headplants .
Toby, thanks for the article but I must pick you up on something.
Bobble hats most certainly do not look ridiculous and I challenge you to go beanie against bobble on any mountainside of your choice. Shauna Coxsey and Jenny Jones can be the expert judges.
It is a fair point that bobbles won't under helmets but, as any snowboarder knows, the bobble gives extra rebound to those headplants .
In reply to verygneiss:
I wrote these articles for UKC a while back - they're still pretty relevant at giving you an idea of how clothing works (even if it doesn't give you a lot of hands-on info).
http://www.ukclimbing.com/articles/page.php?id=5105
http://www.ukclimbing.com/articles/page.php?id=5163
I'd say the hardest thing with Scottish winter is staying dry and avoiding the wind - it generally isn't that cold from an air temperature point of view.
Staying dry: this does not mean wearing a waterproof all the time. In fact, I'd wear one as little as possible. Walk-in wearing the minimum you can so you don't sweat too much, then layer up into your 'action suit' once you're getting geared up. If climbing on, say, Good Friday Climb, getting fully-clothed at the CIC hut is a good way to sweat to death before you even get to the first belay, though.
Staying out the wind: a thin windproof is a seriously good investment and will save more expensive and/or less breathable softshells or waterproofs getting worn out.
I tend to wear:
- mesh baselayer or Helly Hansen (these really are the best - there is no competition when it comes to staying dry). I'll wear merino if I don't want to stink and don't mind getting hot. I'll bring a spare baselayer if I expect to sweat loads on the approach.
- hooded fleece. Fleece is still the most breathable mid-layer out there so I wouldn't go without one. A hood massively increases their versatility (same for baselayers).
- shell layer. This depends on the weather. If the forecast is very very good I'll go with a membrane softshell and ditch the waterproof; most days I'll just carry a waterpoof; if it's really cold I'll carry both
- belay jacket
Trousers-wise, my legs don't tend to care so much if they get hot, so I tend to err on the side of being too warm. If the forecast is good I'll go for thermals and ME G2 pants (Windstopper). If the forecast is bad it's thermals and hardshell sallopettes.
I wrote these articles for UKC a while back - they're still pretty relevant at giving you an idea of how clothing works (even if it doesn't give you a lot of hands-on info).
http://www.ukclimbing.com/articles/page.php?id=5105
http://www.ukclimbing.com/articles/page.php?id=5163
I'd say the hardest thing with Scottish winter is staying dry and avoiding the wind - it generally isn't that cold from an air temperature point of view.
Staying dry: this does not mean wearing a waterproof all the time. In fact, I'd wear one as little as possible. Walk-in wearing the minimum you can so you don't sweat too much, then layer up into your 'action suit' once you're getting geared up. If climbing on, say, Good Friday Climb, getting fully-clothed at the CIC hut is a good way to sweat to death before you even get to the first belay, though.
Staying out the wind: a thin windproof is a seriously good investment and will save more expensive and/or less breathable softshells or waterproofs getting worn out.
I tend to wear:
- mesh baselayer or Helly Hansen (these really are the best - there is no competition when it comes to staying dry). I'll wear merino if I don't want to stink and don't mind getting hot. I'll bring a spare baselayer if I expect to sweat loads on the approach.
- hooded fleece. Fleece is still the most breathable mid-layer out there so I wouldn't go without one. A hood massively increases their versatility (same for baselayers).
- shell layer. This depends on the weather. If the forecast is very very good I'll go with a membrane softshell and ditch the waterproof; most days I'll just carry a waterpoof; if it's really cold I'll carry both
- belay jacket
Trousers-wise, my legs don't tend to care so much if they get hot, so I tend to err on the side of being too warm. If the forecast is good I'll go for thermals and ME G2 pants (Windstopper). If the forecast is bad it's thermals and hardshell sallopettes.
In reply to BnB:
Actually it could be three or four years since I wrote that and bobbles have definitely made a big comeback in the intervening years - I blame the 'freeskiers' with their stupid knee length macs and silly baggy troos, but all the boulderers like Nalle all wear their sponsors bobble hats too, so gullible grommets will of course follow them.
Apropos to not much, I rode past Ms Coxsey's car yesterday. I know this because it says in big letters on the side "Shauna Coxsey Professional Climber".
Actually it could be three or four years since I wrote that and bobbles have definitely made a big comeback in the intervening years - I blame the 'freeskiers' with their stupid knee length macs and silly baggy troos, but all the boulderers like Nalle all wear their sponsors bobble hats too, so gullible grommets will of course follow them.
Apropos to not much, I rode past Ms Coxsey's car yesterday. I know this because it says in big letters on the side "Shauna Coxsey Professional Climber".
In reply to TobyA:
If bobbles are in fashion then I am only on trend because even a stopped clock tells the right time twice a day. But look good they always do
If bobbles are in fashion then I am only on trend because even a stopped clock tells the right time twice a day. But look good they always do
In reply to Offwidth:
I was referring to hotaches, which I don't get (I had to ask my last climbing partner what they were), not gloves, in which case my current favourite option in cold conditions are indeed Dachsteins.
The whole down/synthetic thing has been done to death, but the fact that several companies including Jottnar make down gear specifically for Scottish Winter suggests that it's not an altogether terrible idea.
> Hardly common or good advice for a beginner.
I was referring to hotaches, which I don't get (I had to ask my last climbing partner what they were), not gloves, in which case my current favourite option in cold conditions are indeed Dachsteins.
The whole down/synthetic thing has been done to death, but the fact that several companies including Jottnar make down gear specifically for Scottish Winter suggests that it's not an altogether terrible idea.
In reply to verygneiss:
Don't forget undies and socks - like everythiong else in winter, dont wear cotton (especially on your sweaty bits)
Don't forget undies and socks - like everythiong else in winter, dont wear cotton (especially on your sweaty bits)
In reply to verygneiss:
yes it would. I used one all last year having worn out my buffalo (actually its under repair) . Merino base layer, montane extreme on top and a ME Fitzroy in the rucsac, job done. Thin layer of liner gloves, climbing gloves and buffalo mits as a back up. Patagonia guide pants and LaSp Nepals, yes they're heavy but heavy is reliable! and the above is for bitter days.
yes it would. I used one all last year having worn out my buffalo (actually its under repair) . Merino base layer, montane extreme on top and a ME Fitzroy in the rucsac, job done. Thin layer of liner gloves, climbing gloves and buffalo mits as a back up. Patagonia guide pants and LaSp Nepals, yes they're heavy but heavy is reliable! and the above is for bitter days.
In reply to Michael Gordon:
Unrelated....If its really cold I'll wear down jacket whitewater kayaking underneath a dry top.
With my sewn through construction macpac down jacket, it seems to take about 20 minutes of decent rain before I start feeling wet patches around the shoulders.
Unrelated....If its really cold I'll wear down jacket whitewater kayaking underneath a dry top.
With my sewn through construction macpac down jacket, it seems to take about 20 minutes of decent rain before I start feeling wet patches around the shoulders.
In reply to needvert:
You must be pretty confident!
> Unrelated....If its really cold I'll wear down jacket whitewater kayaking underneath a dry top.
>
>
You must be pretty confident!
1
In reply to verygneiss:
>Any suggestions/tips are welcome, especially with regards to keeping costs down, as all this winter gear is pricey!
it is indeed so don't fall for all the bullsh!t, get some aldi snowboard sallopettes and some aldi/lidl ski layers and a cheap (regatta) waterproof jacket and spend all the money you save on diesel for that long drive to scotland. Its done me well for the last 10 years and easy to replace when you rip it with crampons etc.
You should realise that most of your winter gear will stay in a crate/cupboard for 340 days a year.
>Any suggestions/tips are welcome, especially with regards to keeping costs down, as all this winter gear is pricey!
it is indeed so don't fall for all the bullsh!t, get some aldi snowboard sallopettes and some aldi/lidl ski layers and a cheap (regatta) waterproof jacket and spend all the money you save on diesel for that long drive to scotland. Its done me well for the last 10 years and easy to replace when you rip it with crampons etc.
You should realise that most of your winter gear will stay in a crate/cupboard for 340 days a year.
1
In reply to Ron Walker:
Listen to Ron he knows! A synthetic belay jacket or extra layer is nice to have- worth trying them on to find one that fits. Dachsteins with thin liner gloves are really warm plus something to climb in.
Buffs are great- really useful in all weathers from hot alps to arctic Scotland.
Listen to Ron he knows! A synthetic belay jacket or extra layer is nice to have- worth trying them on to find one that fits. Dachsteins with thin liner gloves are really warm plus something to climb in.
Buffs are great- really useful in all weathers from hot alps to arctic Scotland.
In reply to Jasonic:
Having spent 10 hours immobile after breaking my face in a fall in February I'd say a belay jacket is a must!
It meant I could still function, after a fashion, when the good folks of Glencoe MRT came to my aid.
You don't have to break the bank though - Decathlon did me just fine.
> ...Listen to Ron he knows! A synthetic belay jacket or extra layer is nice to have...
Having spent 10 hours immobile after breaking my face in a fall in February I'd say a belay jacket is a must!
It meant I could still function, after a fashion, when the good folks of Glencoe MRT came to my aid.
You don't have to break the bank though - Decathlon did me just fine.
In reply to More-On:
agree oh if your near decathlon you can get a cracking orange one for £40.
buy now before its only boring black ones. ..
agree oh if your near decathlon you can get a cracking orange one for £40.
buy now before its only boring black ones. ..
In reply to verygneiss:
Not a huge amount to add that isn't out there already but for grade I/II you don't really need to be buying £70 gloves imo. The advice for a lot of people seems to be gloves, gloves, gloves. I'd say boots, boots, boots. I used to carry tons of gloves but for grade I/II you'll be moving a lot of the time and wont get too cold. I'll wear those yellow leather pile lined ones * most of the time (£10-20 i think) and take a spare pair of mitts. For anything non-technical they're ideal as you can wear them from carpark and back and not need to faff. I've found them warmer for daggering or holding the head of the axe while walking than a lot of climbing gloves as well, which is useful on that kind of ground. I have reynauds btw and my hands are already starting to swell up and crack in the October weather so that isn't coming from one of the lucky warm blooded among us! And BD punishers are definitely over kill for starting out, save your cash for boots and add what you want.
If anything's clear from these kinds of posts it's that people have wildly different preferences, mostly I suspect due to the majority of us who aren't out everyday and therefore build a clothing system on how we remember our clothes coped last year, only to find that this year we get out in different conditions. Flexibility is key and thinking "what will i need to wear TODAY", hence why you just need to spend all your money on boots and then add things as you go along and experience different conditions.
If I was you I'd just use what you had and see how you get on, it's really easy to be persuaded by this or that piece of make or break clothing. The only thing that I think most would agree upon is some kind of belay jacket...my two penneth is on the synthetic side but as others have said that's been done to death so I'll restrain myself.
I like the sound of the neoprene face mask, that's a new one to me so I guess it was worth reading the thread
* search snowshepherd leather ski glove
Not a huge amount to add that isn't out there already but for grade I/II you don't really need to be buying £70 gloves imo. The advice for a lot of people seems to be gloves, gloves, gloves. I'd say boots, boots, boots. I used to carry tons of gloves but for grade I/II you'll be moving a lot of the time and wont get too cold. I'll wear those yellow leather pile lined ones * most of the time (£10-20 i think) and take a spare pair of mitts. For anything non-technical they're ideal as you can wear them from carpark and back and not need to faff. I've found them warmer for daggering or holding the head of the axe while walking than a lot of climbing gloves as well, which is useful on that kind of ground. I have reynauds btw and my hands are already starting to swell up and crack in the October weather so that isn't coming from one of the lucky warm blooded among us! And BD punishers are definitely over kill for starting out, save your cash for boots and add what you want.
If anything's clear from these kinds of posts it's that people have wildly different preferences, mostly I suspect due to the majority of us who aren't out everyday and therefore build a clothing system on how we remember our clothes coped last year, only to find that this year we get out in different conditions. Flexibility is key and thinking "what will i need to wear TODAY", hence why you just need to spend all your money on boots and then add things as you go along and experience different conditions.
If I was you I'd just use what you had and see how you get on, it's really easy to be persuaded by this or that piece of make or break clothing. The only thing that I think most would agree upon is some kind of belay jacket...my two penneth is on the synthetic side but as others have said that's been done to death so I'll restrain myself.
I like the sound of the neoprene face mask, that's a new one to me so I guess it was worth reading the thread
* search snowshepherd leather ski glove
Post edited at 17:21
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