This topic has been archived, and won't accept reply postings.
Help help help
Was thinking of buying 'on peak rock' book but can anyone advise me of a book with photos rather than drawing. Im very new to climbing and want the best I can buy not the cheapest.
Thanks people.
Tim
Was thinking of buying 'on peak rock' book but can anyone advise me of a book with photos rather than drawing. Im very new to climbing and want the best I can buy not the cheapest.
Thanks people.
Tim
In reply to Tasered Baby:
Its a nice if a little eccentric book. A good buy even though its old. The BMC chew book is very nice but maybe the wrong time of year for the moors. Burbage, milstone and beyond is a good one as are all the other BMC Peak books. Rockfax guides are pure climbing guides and the ones I choose to take to the crag but the BMC books are my coffee table books that I spend hours pouring over but don't take out of the house
Its a nice if a little eccentric book. A good buy even though its old. The BMC chew book is very nice but maybe the wrong time of year for the moors. Burbage, milstone and beyond is a good one as are all the other BMC Peak books. Rockfax guides are pure climbing guides and the ones I choose to take to the crag but the BMC books are my coffee table books that I spend hours pouring over but don't take out of the house
In reply to Michael Gordon:
Confused sir!! Only asked question because saw online it only has drawings not photos. Not actually seen a copy of book.
Proper thanks for replying.
Tim
Confused sir!! Only asked question because saw online it only has drawings not photos. Not actually seen a copy of book.
Proper thanks for replying.
Tim
In reply to Tasered Baby:
ITs a mixture of both, many action photos in colour and B&W and crag diagrams are indeed line drawings but these are some of the best I've seen and mini works of art in themselves.
ITs a mixture of both, many action photos in colour and B&W and crag diagrams are indeed line drawings but these are some of the best I've seen and mini works of art in themselves.
In reply to Tasered Baby:
The best you can buy is not a single book, though.
On Peak Rock covers (in less detail) areas that you would need to buy 4 - 10 books for if you wanted "the best you can buy". It is the book I bought when I was new to climbing, and I don't use it now as I have slowly built up my guide book collection. The drawings are good but as you imply, things have moved on a bit and photos with dotted lines are great.
It depends where you want to climb. If you are new to climbing and looking at On Peak Rock, you would be wise to buy Rockfax Eastern Grit and Western Grit (two books, could buy one at a time). If you really want the "best" (and no offence to Rockfax) the BMC guides are top notch but you have to buy quite a few to cover the areas that those two Rockfax books cover.
The best you can buy is not a single book, though.
On Peak Rock covers (in less detail) areas that you would need to buy 4 - 10 books for if you wanted "the best you can buy". It is the book I bought when I was new to climbing, and I don't use it now as I have slowly built up my guide book collection. The drawings are good but as you imply, things have moved on a bit and photos with dotted lines are great.
It depends where you want to climb. If you are new to climbing and looking at On Peak Rock, you would be wise to buy Rockfax Eastern Grit and Western Grit (two books, could buy one at a time). If you really want the "best" (and no offence to Rockfax) the BMC guides are top notch but you have to buy quite a few to cover the areas that those two Rockfax books cover.
In reply to Tasered Baby:
if you want a guide to the peak for practical purposes, do not buy on peak rock! It's a charming novelty item but by modern standards a useless guidebook.
the rockfax guides are probably what you want, very practical. The best by far are the definitive bmc guides, but that's a lot of books to cover the peak. Collect them over time.
if you want a guide to the peak for practical purposes, do not buy on peak rock! It's a charming novelty item but by modern standards a useless guidebook.
the rockfax guides are probably what you want, very practical. The best by far are the definitive bmc guides, but that's a lot of books to cover the peak. Collect them over time.
In reply to Jon Stewart:
Even by modern standards its a perfectly useful guidebook for all that dont need their nappies changing for them. It may not be want the OP wants but it works as a guide and it would take a while for most to run out of ideas. He probabaly wants the VG guide: Peak Climbing by the sound if it.
Even by modern standards its a perfectly useful guidebook for all that dont need their nappies changing for them. It may not be want the OP wants but it works as a guide and it would take a while for most to run out of ideas. He probabaly wants the VG guide: Peak Climbing by the sound if it.
In reply to Tasered Baby:
As some one new to climbing the two (three if you include limestone) Rockfax guides will see you alright as climbing guides.
On Peak Rock is however one of my favourite climbing books for reading in bed for inspiration. It is wonderfully quirky with cartoons by "Dubbo" and the superb illustrations of Phil Gibson (though in my opinion the reproduction of them is poor and doesn't do them justice), plus excellent photos to inspire.
As an aside while photos are now the norm, and with assistance of Photoshop easy to use, the drawings produced by Phil in the various guide books still stand the test of time as easy to follow diagrams and to my mind were THE best illustrations of their kind. At a time when photo topos were grainy and hard to interprete
As some one new to climbing the two (three if you include limestone) Rockfax guides will see you alright as climbing guides.
On Peak Rock is however one of my favourite climbing books for reading in bed for inspiration. It is wonderfully quirky with cartoons by "Dubbo" and the superb illustrations of Phil Gibson (though in my opinion the reproduction of them is poor and doesn't do them justice), plus excellent photos to inspire.
As an aside while photos are now the norm, and with assistance of Photoshop easy to use, the drawings produced by Phil in the various guide books still stand the test of time as easy to follow diagrams and to my mind were THE best illustrations of their kind. At a time when photo topos were grainy and hard to interprete
Is nobody allowed to mention that other one? The Vertebrate Publishing one?
In reply to Blue Straggler:
It has already been mentions but to be honest there isn't a lot in it, a single visits-worth to most crags,
Chris
> Is nobody allowed to mention that other one? The Vertebrate Publishing one?
It has already been mentions but to be honest there isn't a lot in it, a single visits-worth to most crags,
Chris
In reply to Chris Craggs:
What a load of rubbish.
Birchen 20+ routes 2 to 4 days for people new to the area.
Burb North ditto plus a load of bouldering that will ad a couple more days
Burb South ditto fewer routes but more problems
Cratcliffe & RHS ditto fewer but big routes and plenty of problems.
Curbar different mix again several days worth.
Froggatt ditto.
Millstone ditto.
Rivelin slightly smaller but some brutes that wont leave energy for much else.
Stanage well over a weeks worth of routes and bouldering.
Castle Naze a couple of vists worth.
Hen Cloud similar to Rivelin a few brutes but with lonegr routes will repay several visits
Kinder probably almost a weeks worth given the locale.
Roaches similar to Stanage.
Wimberry another high moorland crag with a few more brutes plus the boulders several days.
Windgather a friendly couple of days.
Then a bunch of stuff on limestone trad and sport at Blackwell Halt, Harborough, Harper Hill, Horseshoe, Staden, Stoney, Widcat that will keep most going for well over a week.
Add to all this lots of introductory tips to those new to the area or Peak trad/ sport/ boulder climbing in general and it will keep someone of its target audience going for a year even if keen.
I cant quite work out if you are being purposefully rude or you are just ignorant of the book or its audience (which would be weird given the strong overlap with your Rockfax audience).
What a load of rubbish.
Birchen 20+ routes 2 to 4 days for people new to the area.
Burb North ditto plus a load of bouldering that will ad a couple more days
Burb South ditto fewer routes but more problems
Cratcliffe & RHS ditto fewer but big routes and plenty of problems.
Curbar different mix again several days worth.
Froggatt ditto.
Millstone ditto.
Rivelin slightly smaller but some brutes that wont leave energy for much else.
Stanage well over a weeks worth of routes and bouldering.
Castle Naze a couple of vists worth.
Hen Cloud similar to Rivelin a few brutes but with lonegr routes will repay several visits
Kinder probably almost a weeks worth given the locale.
Roaches similar to Stanage.
Wimberry another high moorland crag with a few more brutes plus the boulders several days.
Windgather a friendly couple of days.
Then a bunch of stuff on limestone trad and sport at Blackwell Halt, Harborough, Harper Hill, Horseshoe, Staden, Stoney, Widcat that will keep most going for well over a week.
Add to all this lots of introductory tips to those new to the area or Peak trad/ sport/ boulder climbing in general and it will keep someone of its target audience going for a year even if keen.
I cant quite work out if you are being purposefully rude or you are just ignorant of the book or its audience (which would be weird given the strong overlap with your Rockfax audience).
Post edited at 12:15
In reply to Duncan Bourne:
. . . the superb illustrations of Phil Gibson . . . the drawings produced by Phil in the various guide books still stand the test of time as easy to follow diagrams and to my mind were THE best illustrations of their kind . . .
. . . so true!
. . . the superb illustrations of Phil Gibson . . . the drawings produced by Phil in the various guide books still stand the test of time as easy to follow diagrams and to my mind were THE best illustrations of their kind . . .
. . . so true!
In reply to Offwidth:
Well it contains 400 routes, how long they will keep you going is a moot point. Assuming the OP isn't likely to climb from Mod to E1 when he visits a crag your number of routes/time available at each crag is optimistic IMHO. Maybe try repeating your intricate calculations assuming he is looking for e.g. HS to VS routes,
Chris
Well it contains 400 routes, how long they will keep you going is a moot point. Assuming the OP isn't likely to climb from Mod to E1 when he visits a crag your number of routes/time available at each crag is optimistic IMHO. Maybe try repeating your intricate calculations assuming he is looking for e.g. HS to VS routes,
Chris
Post edited at 12:58
In reply to Chris Craggs:
So why are your poketz books not to be similarly dismissed?
An average of 10 routes a day is good going for most learning the ropes. Thats the equivalent of climbing a day every weekend for 40 weekends in a year....not often possible given the weather work and family prssure most have to cope with. As for mod to E1 thats exactly how I started with my first year and a half with Steve Ashtons guide with a similar number of routes and it inspired me for the first year then I started looking for more details in other guides as required; you grow as a climber as you progress through the book. Then of course there are the 450 odd bouldering classics which you conveniently ignore.
Why you can't you bring yourself to say something nice about it I really dont understand. I simply think it is another really good book (especially so for those looking to move outdoors from an indoor background) in the area blessed with the best guidebook coverage in the world.
So why are your poketz books not to be similarly dismissed?
An average of 10 routes a day is good going for most learning the ropes. Thats the equivalent of climbing a day every weekend for 40 weekends in a year....not often possible given the weather work and family prssure most have to cope with. As for mod to E1 thats exactly how I started with my first year and a half with Steve Ashtons guide with a similar number of routes and it inspired me for the first year then I started looking for more details in other guides as required; you grow as a climber as you progress through the book. Then of course there are the 450 odd bouldering classics which you conveniently ignore.
Why you can't you bring yourself to say something nice about it I really dont understand. I simply think it is another really good book (especially so for those looking to move outdoors from an indoor background) in the area blessed with the best guidebook coverage in the world.
Post edited at 13:11
OPR is a great guidebook - slightly dated now but brilliant nonetheless.
It is unique (or at least in my experience unique) in its approach and an excellent complement to a full set of definitive guides. It is very also usable.
I bought mine as an adjunct to my definitive guides to fulfill the role of answer the question "where should I go today?".
You can pick up OPR for a tenner and it will take you to a load of good places.
It is unique (or at least in my experience unique) in its approach and an excellent complement to a full set of definitive guides. It is very also usable.
I bought mine as an adjunct to my definitive guides to fulfill the role of answer the question "where should I go today?".
You can pick up OPR for a tenner and it will take you to a load of good places.
In reply to Tasered Baby:
OPR was a really novel take on guidebooks, and i've got a copy but only because I'm an inveterate collector, just can't help it. While it's quirky and charming, times have really moved on, and it looks really dated and doesn't compare on usability compared to current Rockfax and BMC.
Depending on which side of the Peak you live/climb, Rockfax Grit East or West are your best bet supplemented by the Limestone guide. It's not either/or, the different guides are good for different tastes and approaches. Supplement with BMC guides later, for depth and just because they're excellently produced.
Given the time of year, i would advise Rockfax Peak Bouldering which could last you a lifetime of ticking, but thats personal taste.
OPR was a really novel take on guidebooks, and i've got a copy but only because I'm an inveterate collector, just can't help it. While it's quirky and charming, times have really moved on, and it looks really dated and doesn't compare on usability compared to current Rockfax and BMC.
Depending on which side of the Peak you live/climb, Rockfax Grit East or West are your best bet supplemented by the Limestone guide. It's not either/or, the different guides are good for different tastes and approaches. Supplement with BMC guides later, for depth and just because they're excellently produced.
Given the time of year, i would advise Rockfax Peak Bouldering which could last you a lifetime of ticking, but thats personal taste.
In reply to Duncan Bourne:
I beg to differ. In my humble opinion no-one has ever come close to the line drawings of Pete Marks in the sixties and seventies.
> ...the drawings produced by Phil in the various guide books still stand the test of time as easy to follow diagrams and to my mind were THE best illustrations of their kind.
I beg to differ. In my humble opinion no-one has ever come close to the line drawings of Pete Marks in the sixties and seventies.
In reply to Fredt:
Not having seen any of his illustrations I can not compare. Do you have a link or a guide book example?
Not having seen any of his illustrations I can not compare. Do you have a link or a guide book example?
In reply to Chris Craggs:
Dunno about others but a day in the Peak for me starts at Diff and ends at E2/3.
Dunno about others but a day in the Peak for me starts at Diff and ends at E2/3.
In reply to paul_in_cumbria:
My patched ron hills are dated ; they work really well too. OPR was the best book for 'what to do when' in the peak and was also a great cookbook for putting together linked adventures, even now those advantages remain. Second hand copies are cheap (the hardbound first edition is by far the most useful) and climbers in the know can take advantage.
My patched ron hills are dated ; they work really well too. OPR was the best book for 'what to do when' in the peak and was also a great cookbook for putting together linked adventures, even now those advantages remain. Second hand copies are cheap (the hardbound first edition is by far the most useful) and climbers in the know can take advantage.
Post edited at 12:14
In reply to Offwidth:
Hi Offwidth, I'm afraid you do all my work for me
> My patched ron hills are dated
Hi Offwidth, I'm afraid you do all my work for me
In reply to paul_in_cumbria:
If thats the work you like, everyones a winner. They are comfortable, light, cheap, recycled and despised by fashion victims, which to me are all massive positives
If thats the work you like, everyones a winner. They are comfortable, light, cheap, recycled and despised by fashion victims, which to me are all massive positives
In reply to Offwidth:
They are comfortable, light, cheap, recycled and despised, which to me are all massive positives
Fixed that for you.......
Back on the OP, I'm off out now as usual without a guide book, and looking for fun on the crag. As many have noted on UKC over the years, this is another alternative.
They are comfortable, light, cheap, recycled and despised, which to me are all massive positives
Fixed that for you.......
Back on the OP, I'm off out now as usual without a guide book, and looking for fun on the crag. As many have noted on UKC over the years, this is another alternative.
In reply to paul_in_cumbria:
What a wonderful world we live in with all its terrible problems, many of which are made a lot worse by our fashion industry, where some people can get so out of touch with reality that they despise, of all things, trousers. Hence, patched Ron Hills become an inadvertant political statement as well as good outdoor climbing wear.
What a wonderful world we live in with all its terrible problems, many of which are made a lot worse by our fashion industry, where some people can get so out of touch with reality that they despise, of all things, trousers. Hence, patched Ron Hills become an inadvertant political statement as well as good outdoor climbing wear.
Post edited at 14:01
In reply to Duncan Bourne:
P.B,Marks did the drawings of every BMC Peak guide throughout the sixties and seventies. I grew up studying his drawings.
I remember also he did the two volume BMC Llanberis Guide around mid eighties?
> Not having seen any of his illustrations I can not compare. Do you have a link or a guide book example?
P.B,Marks did the drawings of every BMC Peak guide throughout the sixties and seventies. I grew up studying his drawings.
I remember also he did the two volume BMC Llanberis Guide around mid eighties?
In reply to Fredt:
Still doesn't help me I'm afraid. I have Staffordshire Gritstone going back to the white 1970's book (photo diagrams) then Phil Gibson starts illustrating them. And the earliest Llanberis guide I have is Greg Griffith.
Still doesn't help me I'm afraid. I have Staffordshire Gritstone going back to the white 1970's book (photo diagrams) then Phil Gibson starts illustrating them. And the earliest Llanberis guide I have is Greg Griffith.
In reply to Duncan Bourne:
A quick glance in my collection found these, all BMC
1964 Stanage (blue one)
1965 Froggatt (red one)
1970 Chatsworth Gritstone
1976 Stanage Guide (green one) the Stanage drawings.
1978 Froggatt (yellow one)
1982 Ogwen (Leppert).
A quick glance in my collection found these, all BMC
1964 Stanage (blue one)
1965 Froggatt (red one)
1970 Chatsworth Gritstone
1976 Stanage Guide (green one) the Stanage drawings.
1978 Froggatt (yellow one)
1982 Ogwen (Leppert).
In reply to Jon Stewart:
That's just plain wrong. It's the only(?) worthwhile selected guide to all of Peak climbing, it is quite usable on a crag and, most importantly, it gives an overview of crags and Peak climbing generally that you just don't get in any other guide. In fact, if you are completely new to the Peak, as the OP may be, it may well be the best place to start.
Modern definitive, and semi-definitive guides are also great of course, but have a slightly different purpose.
> if you want a guide to the peak for practical purposes, do not buy on peak rock! It's a charming novelty item but by modern standards a useless guidebook.
That's just plain wrong. It's the only(?) worthwhile selected guide to all of Peak climbing, it is quite usable on a crag and, most importantly, it gives an overview of crags and Peak climbing generally that you just don't get in any other guide. In fact, if you are completely new to the Peak, as the OP may be, it may well be the best place to start.
Modern definitive, and semi-definitive guides are also great of course, but have a slightly different purpose.
In reply to Michael Hood:
Ah, thank you. But it was very sunny in 1976!
> 1978 Froggatt was definitely Orange - I think yours must have faded to yellow
Ah, thank you. But it was very sunny in 1976!
In reply to MG:
It's a good read at home but I've never used it as a guidebook at the crag - but then I have the hardback version! Whilst it is refreshingly different book the whole crags for a dry summer etc would have been better captured in a tables rather than determining the whole format..maybe
It's a good read at home but I've never used it as a guidebook at the crag - but then I have the hardback version! Whilst it is refreshingly different book the whole crags for a dry summer etc would have been better captured in a tables rather than determining the whole format..maybe
In reply to Fredt:
I am going to have to seek some of these out. I have always been impressed by Phil Gibson's work so if you reckon Pete Marks is better then they are worth finding
I am going to have to seek some of these out. I have always been impressed by Phil Gibson's work so if you reckon Pete Marks is better then they are worth finding
In reply to Duncan Bourne:
What about Malc Baxter's drawings? I think his are the best.
Moorland Gritstone Chew Valley book contains many fine examples.
What about Malc Baxter's drawings? I think his are the best.
Moorland Gritstone Chew Valley book contains many fine examples.
In reply to Bulls Crack:
Does anyone know if the latest edition has the "Global Graded List" in it?
Sadly no-ones entered it here yet : http://www.ukclimbing.com/logbook/sets.html
> It's a good read at home but I've never used it as a guidebook at the crag - but then I have the hardback version! Whilst it is refreshingly different book the whole crags for a dry summer etc would have been better captured in a tables rather than determining the whole format..maybe
Does anyone know if the latest edition has the "Global Graded List" in it?
Sadly no-ones entered it here yet : http://www.ukclimbing.com/logbook/sets.html
In reply to Lusk:
For Limestone I always thought the original Rockfax very simple line drawings worked much better than the newer photo topos - where apparent features are so dependent on the exact camera position and ambient light and where trees and forshortening make route identification much harder.
For Limestone I always thought the original Rockfax very simple line drawings worked much better than the newer photo topos - where apparent features are so dependent on the exact camera position and ambient light and where trees and forshortening make route identification much harder.
In reply to GrahamD:
Never let the facts of visual psychology get in the way of glossy photos eh? One of the things we teach in my team is how some multi-million consultant based input to modernise public information screens can make things a lot worse (eg. a certain London railway station replacing the perfectly readable old mechanical information clapper boards with unreadable plasma screens as a classic example... down to indicating the best viewing point with writing on a floor you can never see at rush hour... and when they realised no-one could see, the subsequent addition of light adjustment technology...blinds to you and me...to cut reflections from the light coming through glass roof). Limestone photo's can be real tricky to get right for topos... slanting light and a bit of image enhancement helps, line drawings can simply be better.
Never let the facts of visual psychology get in the way of glossy photos eh? One of the things we teach in my team is how some multi-million consultant based input to modernise public information screens can make things a lot worse (eg. a certain London railway station replacing the perfectly readable old mechanical information clapper boards with unreadable plasma screens as a classic example... down to indicating the best viewing point with writing on a floor you can never see at rush hour... and when they realised no-one could see, the subsequent addition of light adjustment technology...blinds to you and me...to cut reflections from the light coming through glass roof). Limestone photo's can be real tricky to get right for topos... slanting light and a bit of image enhancement helps, line drawings can simply be better.
In reply to Michael Hood:
Blimey, I've still got the original I bought back then and it's yellow. It's so long ago i'd forgotten it used to be orange. My first guidebook, mostly ticked!
> 1978 Froggatt was definitely Orange - I think yours must have faded to yellow
Blimey, I've still got the original I bought back then and it's yellow. It's so long ago i'd forgotten it used to be orange. My first guidebook, mostly ticked!
In reply to MG:
I think this is one of the better "selected climbs" guidebooks that has been produced in the UK. Lot's of character and fun items like the graded list.
I think this is one of the better "selected climbs" guidebooks that has been produced in the UK. Lot's of character and fun items like the graded list.
In reply to Tasered Baby:
http://www.v-publishing.co.uk/books/categories/climbing/peak-district-climb...
Is a good book of a similar type. I think it's been slagged off upthread, but I found it really useful when I started climbing.
http://www.v-publishing.co.uk/books/categories/climbing/peak-district-climb...
Is a good book of a similar type. I think it's been slagged off upthread, but I found it really useful when I started climbing.
In reply to Bulls Crack:
I've used it as a guidebook at the crag, It varies between brilliant and a bit vague between areas; though I don't mind that, the vague bits add a touch of adventure to single pitch ("Is this the Diff or the HVS, that diagram is not exactly clear").
As someone new to the area it proved invaluable and after a forgetful moment in a car park I've actually bought another one...
Edit: The line drawing Topos are excellent and I find them highly preferable to Photos... Some of the less popular crags have just a diagram of the general layout with numbers for the climbs on it, these are the diagrams to which the quote refers.
I've used it as a guidebook at the crag, It varies between brilliant and a bit vague between areas; though I don't mind that, the vague bits add a touch of adventure to single pitch ("Is this the Diff or the HVS, that diagram is not exactly clear").
As someone new to the area it proved invaluable and after a forgetful moment in a car park I've actually bought another one...
Edit: The line drawing Topos are excellent and I find them highly preferable to Photos... Some of the less popular crags have just a diagram of the general layout with numbers for the climbs on it, these are the diagrams to which the quote refers.
Post edited at 21:12
In reply to Tasered Baby:
This thread has prompted me to buy a used copy of the original 1993 On Peak Rock. First guidebook I ever borrowed from my university mountaineering club's library. No idea why I don't already have my own copy.
This thread has prompted me to buy a used copy of the original 1993 On Peak Rock. First guidebook I ever borrowed from my university mountaineering club's library. No idea why I don't already have my own copy.
This topic has been archived, and won't accept reply postings.
Loading Notifications...