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IRATA Tech - starting to loose the plot.

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 Hatty 10 Oct 2014
To any IRATA Techs out there with advice they'd be willing to share....

Currently in Australia, my year is up in 3 weeks so im heading home with a holiday stop off in SE Asia and then after christmas looking for a job to start in early 2015, Im Level 1, got over 1300 hours logged now, go for my Level 2 in Jan 2015. Im 27, worked in construction since I was 17.

Ive owned and run a successful building/carpentry business in Scotland for 5 years previous to this past year in Aus.

Ive sent out over 60 resumes now to rope access companies throughout the Middle East, SE Asia and North Africa, which is where myself and my partner would like to live for a few years, we're not fussy about where really, other than not being keen on living back in UK for too long just now...

Anyone willing to look at my CV and cover letter and let me know what they think? id really appreciate feedback, i must be saying something wrong or not saying enough? I hoping to continue project managing if possible as iv proven im capable through running my business and doing it here on the ropes in Aus, obviously not as the Level 3 but overseeing the trade work.

Maybe 60 cv's isnt much? maybe i keep going till its 260 and then get pissed off or maybe the cv needs reviewed now? setting sights too high for a Project management position at L1/2? chopping up my card is always an option....? or just suck it up till im L3 or find a few thousand and just get a bunch of fecking NDT and offshore tickets?

Cheers for advice, Oly
 Rich W Parker 10 Oct 2014
In reply to oly-l:

I don't know anything about construction project management, especially on other continents. But I do know that for techs with NDT or rigging and offshore certs all those places you mention are really busy with work in the energy sector. NDT is an expensive multi legged monster which is only worth while as a longer term strategy, and in my opinion is dull as hell. An Opito approved stage 1 riggers cert is way cheaper. Some still regard this ticket on it's own with some distain, it depends who holds it, you sound like a guy with some mileage and practical skills.
Phone companies up and ask them what you need to be useful to them, it's way quicker than fishing with speculative CVs.
OP Hatty 11 Oct 2014
In reply to Murko Fuzz:

That's it mate I can see that NDT would be the way to go for 'guaranteeing' work but going on the back of my experience carrying out visual inspections and surveys, I think it would break me eventually. Plus as you mention, where would the spending on qualifications stop....
My plan for January was to go for Level 2, opito combined rigger, slinger, banksman and possibly lifting gear inspection to go with the rigging.... You're right about phoning them up too, a bit more targeted than blinding mass emailing companies....Cheers for your thoughts mate.
OP Hatty 11 Oct 2014
In reply to oly-l:

When I say Level 2, I mean IRATA, I'm aware it would be stage 1 rigger, slinger banksman to start with.....

*blindly mass emailing......

Another thought was geotechnical work, had a look around at blasting/ shotfiring courses but couldn't find what would be of most use to companies, again maybe the simple answer is to contact the folk that hire and find out what they would like to see. I remember a documentary a while back that included a swiss team maybe? They were rope techs drilling and placing explosives on rock faces for clearing a road or maybe trying to stabilise a face.... I can't remeber exactly but it looked like fun!
 jethro kiernan 11 Oct 2014
In reply to oly-l:

I would steer clear of rock teams (geotechnical), and blasting/painting both can be pretty soul destroying.
As far as managing jobs, unfortunatly it is still the case that level 3's are seen as the people that should run things so you might be doing your self out of work by presenting yourself as a manager and leader when your qualifications are of someone whom they would expect to get on with the job under someone elses direction.
OP Hatty 11 Oct 2014
In reply to jethro kiernan:

Someone said to me a while ago that being humble in job applications was important, I've reviewed my cover letter and 'humbilzed' it further.... the level 3 status and legal requirement holds a lot of weight. I think that my best course of action is just to suck it up, get on with it for the next year/1000 hours and get to L3 then start hunting the Project Management positions?
 Frank4short 11 Oct 2014
In reply to oly-l:

> Someone said to me a while ago that being humble in job applications was important, I've reviewed my cover letter and 'humbilzed' it further.... the level 3 status and legal requirement holds a lot of weight. I think that my best course of action is just to suck it up, get on with it for the next year/1000 hours and get to L3 then start hunting the Project Management positions?

Look i don't mean to sound like an arsehole but you're still comparatively young. Whilst I don't doubt you may be perfectly able to do all of the project management stuff ultimately at your age with a relatively short amount of experience people are more likely to go with a more experienced candidate for the PM positions. If you're really serious about PMing best bet is to get in somewhere at a lower position work hard, really prove yourself to you boss and work your way up.

With regard to middle eastern work generally the Arabs like expats to have at least 10+ years professional experience and be 35+ before considering someone for a position. Whilst it's not impossible it is unlikely that you'll be seriously contender for major ME jobs.

In saying all of that keep pushing as sooner or later something will work out. Good luck
 jethro kiernan 11 Oct 2014
In reply to oly-l:

worked my up from level 3 to PM offshore running jobs with 100+ guys on major projects, took me a few years and means proving yourself capable of running a small team at first working your way through larger and more complex jobs, personally I have put level 2 and 1 in overall charge of jobs in the past because of their trade knowledge and leadership skills with the level III working under their leader ship and in charge of rope work, this is however unusual.
Running jobs at the coal face depends very much on proven track record and personal recommendation and it is highly unlikely you will be able to enter a new job market at this level without these.
I’m afraid it’s very much start at the shop floor, to be honest if you are intent on enjoying a new country just working as a tech may be more enjoyable and will allow you to find the opportunity that will allow you to shine.
OP Hatty 11 Oct 2014
In reply to Frank4short:

Doesn't make you sound like an arsehole at all mate, its true i am still comparatively young and I fully appreciate my experience is minimal compared to others out there... I never set out to project manage, having my own business at home kind of happened on its own and ended up with at one time 5 full time employees plus sub contractors, had to learn how to get everything done, keep everyone happy and still make a profit for myself. Ironically I don't actually enjoy telling people what to do, i do however like seeing everything working well and seeing all parties walk away happy.

The same applies to moving into rope access, i never thought for a second id be anything other than a tech getting on with whatever was asked me, in fact i enjoy that and i wanted a break from responsibility, do your shift, then go home and enjoy your free time without sparing a single thought for the current job.. It just happened that companies I've ended up working for over here have said to me once ive started on the job....you've done concrete works,caulking, glazing whatever its been before yeh? Cool you can run this job... and that's how I've found myself managing teams on bigger projects.

So its not that I'm desperate to be walking around cracking the whip like a mini hitler or something.. i hope... Its just that's what i keep slipping into so I got it into my head that if we were wanting to head to the Middle East, i was more likely to get a job higher up the chain than as a tech as maybe more often techs are locals? I'm more than happy to go in anywhere at bottom of the pile and stay there if that's what happens. However obviously pay is a factor that appeals when it comes to PM positions...

Good to get a heads up on 35+ etc for ME jobs and i can understand why, might have to leave Middle East for down the track, girlfriend lived in Oman for 9 years and we were keen to go back but cant see it happening without a prior job offer.

Thanks for your advice and I'll take it on board, back to the drawing board for me to some extent i think!
OP Hatty 12 Oct 2014
In reply to jethro kiernan:

Again I take all that on board. Interesting though to hear that you have used L1/2 for running jobs but I appreciate its unusual and maybe over here Its just been circumstance that has landed me in this role...

True also that just working as a tech maybe the more enjoyable way to work wherever we end up next. Like I said before though, it's just finding 'that' tech job isn't it....

What ive now done after everyone's input is, left my cv as it was, Im not going to start removing my experience of owning a business and project managing construction jobs on the ropes but.... i have heavily edited my cover letter so I am now approaching companies for Tech positions as a L2 (come January), still mentioning I have PM experience but not making a big deal of it or suggesting I could fill that role and asking for feedback, what quals they would ideally like to see etc if they're not willing to hire me.

Im sure it'll all come good, just the process can be frustrating as I'm sure you have all experienced at some stage? Had to pump out plenty of cvs to get first L1 job, and then not had a week without work since I got the 1st job and now its time to leave here and get setup somewhere else, just feels like deja vu... back hunting that first L1 job. Ah well, keep pumping out the CV's, stay positive and try to treat it like the big game that it is...

cheers for all your advice guys. You never know I may be back on here soon telling you I've got a PM job in UAE and they've got a chopper on its way to pick me up...
 aln 12 Oct 2014
In reply to oly-l:

Maybe it's coz you write loose when you mean lose.
OP Hatty 12 Oct 2014
In reply to aln:

Perhaps it is? As a rope tech can you offer any other advice? or do you just go through all the threads correcting people's grammer and spelling? Your sentence could do with a little work?
> Maybe it's coz you write loose when you mean lose.

Anyway luckily for me in my industry, written communication is definitely of importance but actual trade skills, safety, planning and getting on with folk without being a pedantic prick are usually held in higher esteem.
A quick look at your profile shows you've got an awful lot of time on your hands posting on threads fairly steadily, almost continually....haha just noticed you're in the top 40 posters! Pretty cool eh? This is my first use of ukc in perhaps 6 months. Maybe get out for a climb or something mate?
However thank you for your concern. I did ask if anyone wanted to have a look through my cv, maybe you would like to spellcheck it for me. Cheers
 aln 12 Oct 2014
In reply to oly-l:

I did ask if anyone wanted to have a look through my cv, maybe you would like to spellcheck it for me.

Not if pointing out something so simple and obvious as the difference between loose and lose results in being called a prick.
OP Hatty 12 Oct 2014
In reply to aln:
That's fair enough mate, I did call you a prick . I did also then go on to imply you're a bit of sad case as well...so im not really surprised you aren't keen...?

Anyway my post was intended to focus on the rope access industry in an attempt to gain further insight from others involved. It's at least a little bit climbing related and hence posting it on ukc. Never understood all the crap that people get into on here or the bitchy little girl comments that people feel they need to make. Save it for the pub with your mates if you have any?
Oh the shame of being sucked into it all.......

It'll probably now turn out you're the fecking president of IRATA or something and I'll be haunted by this ukc exchange for the rest of my days...forced to live out my life via the Internet...
Post edited at 05:10
 goldmember 12 Oct 2014
In reply to oly-l:

As someone wishing to be a PM you are very harsh and bristly. You don't know Aln or his background but you just destroyed him for no reason.

OP Hatty 12 Oct 2014
In reply to goldmember

This is what gets me about ukc....

My post was aimed at rope techs with Project Management experience and knowledge of working in the Middle East, N Africa, SE Asia. Everyone was helpful and I've taken any constructive criticism on board without any issues, further more I've acted on it and edited documents accordingly.
The comment referring to my incorrect use of loose wasn't a big deal but I just can't be bothered with it. It's not helpful, it's irrelevant and I've got no time for it.
Had he introduced himself, said something helpful and then taken the piss a bit, I'd have taken it as a joke. I don't wish to be a PM, read the thread....
To be honest if you think I've been harsh, I probably have been. Just so much on here is folk who know nothing about the subject in discussion wanting to have a say, it's really quite odd.

I don't know him, I doubt we'll have any further exchange and as far his background, he could be the nicest guy and the best rope access PM around or he could have an understandle reason for spending so much time posting on here, he didn't introduce himself and he's not going to be helpful now anyway is he.
Any further comments regarding rope access or working in the Middle East are very welcome, anything else concerning spelling, grammar, being upset at the way I've spoken to an online buddy, Just don't bother. This thread is probably done realistically, I'm going to get back to real life now, I might even go for a climb at some stage!
Cheers.
In reply to oly-l:

Hello mate, I've never done the ropes course but I have done a couple of shifts out in the Middle East on the mountainous seismic work, most of the other guys were on the ropes but a few of us were just climbers with the experience needed. At one point one of the rope supervisors told me if I wanted a job on the ropes I just needed to do my ticket and he'd fill my log book or whatever is used with whatever hours I needed to get on the next job. So I guess it's the same old story not what you know but who you know closed shop affair. But I find in life if you want something enough the opportunity will come along. Don't let the bastards grind you down and all that and good luck.
 Hans 12 Oct 2014
In reply to oly-l:

Although I'm not part of the rope access industry anymore, I got a big break with my bosses husband who got wind that I'd done my IRATA ticket. Similar to you, I emailed quite a few companies and even considered doing a course to learn a new trade, but the guy just took me on based on a good work ethic and taught me what I needed for each job.

I've had a fair number of different jobs now in different industries: done rope access/instructor stuff at sea (not technically offshore though) and on land, all over the UK, and currently work in education. Though with his company, I realized that the IRATA industry is one of the most closed in the world seemingly. You could email companies until you're 37 and get nowhere mate. It's massively frustrating because I found it a great job, which so many people would enjoy doing, yet is so hard to get anywhere with. And everyone who works in the industry knows it's very closed. My advice, for what it is worth, is grind away until you get your level 3, you're in your early 30's, and then go for higher jobs with more responsibility. Use what I assume to be an already extensive network of contacts to listen out for your 'big break' and when you get it, all the best. Less emailing, more contact with actual people
 andrewmc 12 Oct 2014
In reply to oly-l:
> The comment referring to my incorrect use of loose wasn't a big deal but I just can't be bothered with it. It's not helpful, it's irrelevant and I've got no time for it.

Welcome to UKC. Correcting spelling and grammar, which is important when trying to present yourself, has always been fair game. Being rude is not (although sadly common). First impressions and all that...
Post edited at 17:03
 Adam Lincoln 12 Oct 2014
You won't have any chance of getting a project management role as a 2. Certainly not as a 1. You would probably struggle as a 3 without a wealth of working experience. I have just done my Level 3. I did all the levels in 4 years and a few people have frowned upon that. Its not the industry to rush up the levels in. Gain experience, in a whole manner of industries. I have worked in oil and gas for last 3 years, and its massive in terms of the safety it brings.

Good luck.
OP Hatty 13 Oct 2014

Thanks for everyone's advice. Always good to hear folks opinions and experiences. Some conflicting opinions regarding PM positions and IRATA levels and I suppose there are no rules as such with it all, must differ between industries etc. I've had a great time here in Aus, love the place. I never expected Id end up project managing on the ropes but it was a rewarding suprise, I'm not fussed if I don't do it again for a good while, I wouldnt turn it down but I'm not going to seek it out for now. I'll keep chipping away at finding a way into the Middle East, Oman sounds amazing, you just need the right person, the right timing and some good luck I suppose. As long as I'm not doing a 45 storey builders clean again I'm pretty happy... I'll do my L2 in Jan, keep clocking up the hours and just take it from there. Thanks again for all the advice.
Post edited at 08:44
 jethro kiernan 13 Oct 2014
In reply to John Simpson:

Skinny Dave by any chance?
In reply to jethro kiernan:

No not skinny Dave, he was on the same job though.
 goldmember 13 Oct 2014
you just need the right person, the right timing and some good luck I suppose.

Coupled with the right attitude and you should be laughing.

Good luck

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