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How many ice screws do I need?

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 Roberttaylor 13 Oct 2014
Looking to head to the Ecrins for some ice climbing this winter. How many ice screws and of what lengths do people take?

So far I have 22, 16 and 19cm BD expresses.

Also, if anyone knows of any good deals on screws (ideally sets) please send them my way.

Robert
 blackcat 13 Oct 2014
In reply to Roberttaylor: Depends on difficulty of the route,i carry 8,thats 10cm,13cm,19cm,22cm.

In reply to Roberttaylor:

8 seems a good start point, 2 for each belay and four for runners.
Removed User 13 Oct 2014
In reply to nickinscottishmountains:

Although it has to be pointed out that on a 60m pitch (which many of them will be), with 4 screws for runners you'll be placing gear every 12m...but with bolted belays you will have some spare...
In reply to Removed User:

Sure...if the route has bolted belays, which not all ice routes do.
 GarethSL 13 Oct 2014
In reply to Roberttaylor:

I take:

4x 22cm for belays - normally two get offloaded onto partner.
6x 16cm for runners.
4x 13cm for the thin bits and where I feel safe.

Never really needed more, but I will probably replace the 22's for 19's as mine are crap and long screws suck to get in and maybe add two more 16's this winter as I plan on getting 70m ropes.
 Dave Williams 13 Oct 2014
In reply to Roberttaylor:

Not an easy answer as there are quite a few variables to consider - eg. are you going to be swinging leads with someone and so you won't need so many yourself as you'll be able to share? If you're going to be doing all the leading then you'll obviously need more.

The following is just my opinion (based on 16 ice climbing trips to France (mainly Ecrins) but also to Norway and Italy and climbing up to WI5):

Generally speaking, all running protection in the Ecrins is on screws (although very occasionally you can use a tape on a tree or come across a bolt/ peg runner.) Belays are often bolted (although these can be buried.) Trees are often used for belays too but you'll also need to be prepared to belay on screws, even on popular climbs if the belay bolts are in use by another party or if climbing something less popular or esoteric. Sometimes two consecutive belays can be on screws. If the ice is poor, you can easily use up three screws while 'manufacturing' a good belay. Pitches can also be close to 60m in length on many routes.

So you need to be prepared for two consecutive belays on screws - 4 screws minimum. Then, if climbing long pitches, you may need anything between 6-8 screws as a minimum, depending on how hard it is, how easy it is to place screws or how prepared you are to run things out.

So, a team will ideally need between 10 - 12 screws - and on quite a few routes 12 won't feel like too many! If these can be bought between 2 people, then so much the better.

As for lengths, I tend to carry a single 22cm (mainly for belaying and Abalakovs), then the rest are all 16cm together with a token 13cm usually carried as an 'extra'. (I have 10cm screws but have never placed a single one in continental ice.)

HTH.

Dave

OP Roberttaylor 13 Oct 2014
In reply to Dave Williams:

Cheers, that's clarified a lot of stuff for me. Looks like I might need to splash out...
 Slarti B 13 Oct 2014
In reply to Roberttaylor:

I have had 3 trips to Ecrins, climbing medium grades ( WI3-4) at Ceillac, Fornel and Freissiniere. I would back up Dave Williams comments.
- Most belays have bolts but can be covered or you can miss them so need couple of screws for each belay.
- Pitches can be long so, unless you like running it out, 8 screws for runners are good.

Between us, my partner and I were normally carrying about 12 screws and certainly didn't feel we were overdoing it (though I am a bit of a wimp).
Ours were ( roughly)
1 x 22 cm for Abalakov
2 x 19 cm for thicker icebelays
7 x 16 cm - good general purpose length
2 x small ones, ( 10 cm and 12 cm?) which we rarely needed to use as short screws but I used as final runners

Elite Mountain Supplies often have good deals and do 20% off for BMC members.
 Hannes 14 Oct 2014
In reply to Roberttaylor:
Anywhere between 10-15 would be ideal. Does you climbing partner have any screws? Get some shorter ones as well
Post edited at 09:18
Removed User 14 Oct 2014
In reply to nickinscottishmountains:

Agreed, but as pointed out below, a lot of the routes in south european honey pots do. My point instead was that with only 8 screws the OP may be running it out for 12m between gear: most of the time they're not going to fall, but 24m (+ stretch) is a long way to be bouncing down an ice route attached to poons...

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