UKC

Looking to resling 10 or so cams for big walling, so some 2nd team older units (many over 10 yrs so too old to be reslung in UK, and sending out to Mtn Sports in US is likely to be £££). What is the strength of 5.5mm Dyneema cord tied with a triple fishermans as sold by Needle Sports?

In reply to philhilo:
There are tests from Tom Moyer/Black Diamond which show you can take the single strand rating as the loop strength when tied with a triple fishermans, then knock off ca. 20% for weakening due to flexing over time.

In reply to philhilo:

Don't know but these tests on tape, not cord, are interesting:

http://dmmclimbing.com/knowledge/knotting-dyneema-vid/

In reply to philhilo:

I just push a folded sling through the hole and clip both loops (or larksfoot it), 8mm fits fine and 6mm is available. Strong and neat with no bulky knots.

jk

In reply to Siward:
Aware of Dyneema tape tied issues, basically slippery.

In reply to jkarran:
I thought larksfooting was a big no no? I have seen the sling technique, downside is risk of only clipping one side, and finding a foolproof method of preventing this - one suggestion was marking with insulation tape....not very foolproof!

In reply to philhilo:
you could tape the two ends you clip together so they always 'come as one' - obviously the tape has no structural strength, just to hold them together

In reply to steveliput:

Unless you fail to clip one of the loops anyway and then don't notice because you have tied them together... It would be safer to dedicate a crab and tape the slings onto that (so you can't fiddle with it).

In reply to andrewmcleod:
The way I'm imagining it you tape round the two strands at the end where you'd clip, over a length of maybe 2-3 inches on each side of the loop. You'd really struggle to clip it incorrectly

Maybe it needs a diagram, which I can't be bothered with

In reply to steveliput:
+1 to this

i use an elastic band to keep the 2 ends close together and have a carabiner through both loops. i keep the elastic snug on the carabiner to minimize the chance of a loop escaping. I also have elastic towards the stem so the whole thing isnt flopping around. Bulky but it works for 2 metolius cams i have

In reply to philhilo:

Don't you basically end up with a larksfoot when you extend an "inbuilt" extendible sling like on DMM cams? Or does that end up as something slightly different (well, it DOES, it's not like a standard larksfoot, but I thought it was effectively the same)?

Or do you mean a larksfoot is OK on those double axle ones but not through the stem of whatever you have?

In reply to philhilo:

The way I see it there are three ways of looking at the 'larksfoot':

One is blithely trust the larksfoot data that comes with the sling, mine (6mm Mammut) showed 16kN for this configuration, stronger than the original cam so good enough, no more thought needed. Not my preferred approach but interesting data none the less.

The second is to arrange the sling so it isn't actually larksfooted over itself, it's effectively hooked over the stem then bent a couple of times through the stem's eye. From the sling's perspective it's hard to see that set-up as radically different from clipping a krab and running over a blunt edge, something you'd not normally think twice about. This configuration does impose some bending load on the stem but the levers are short and it's not personally something I worry about.

The third approach is to see 'larksfoot' and take the traditional approach of muttering 'death on a stick', hissing quietly and shying away. Most folk seem comfortable with this (except when slinging their belay loops in which case it's fine?) which is fine with me, everyone has to make their own decisions.

jk

In reply to philhilo:

Continued...

I've not tested my cams to destruction and truth told I usually just clip both sling loops (test with a tug) because that's about the sling length I like but I don't come out in cold sweats climbing above them when I've larksfooted the sling to get some extra extension. That's me, my poorly informed judgement and my approach to risk, I have no hard data, maybe they'll fail and kill me one day, maybe they won't. I'm betting on won't.

Mods: Why can't I post more than 4 paragraphs?!

In reply to philhilo:

Not that it answers your question, but it is customary to include the following link in any discussion about re-slinging cams:

http://www.kakibusok.plus.com/Equipment/ReslingCams/Resling.htm

In reply to jkarran:
Good points John. Looking a little deeper on the larksfooting front here:

http://adriannelhams.blogspot.co.uk/2010/11/sling-strengths.html

Assuming the data is reasonable then larksfooting around a 10mm pin reduces the strength for 11mm or 8mm dyneema to a bit over 19kn, more than enough. The real issue is larksfooting two slings together, that is producing a 50% strength reduction. So looks like larksfooting a sling into the eye of a cam should be ok? Or looping through...still a shame nobody will resling older cams in the UK.

In reply to Blue Straggler:

>>Don't you basically end up with a larksfoot when you extend an "inbuilt" extendible sling like on DMM cams?

Not on DMM Cams - here's why:-

http://dmmclimbing.com/knowledge/improvisation-larks-foot-or-basket-hitch-v...

In reply to philhilo:
What Cams are they? For aid you want a clip in point that gets you as high as possible. So you might need a small loop and a longer one so you can use it as a runner, or just carry more extenders. For some Cams the clip in point will be the plastic loop.

In reply to David Coley:

Hi David,

As a set of 'B' team cams they are a mixture of thumb loop style middle aged BD and Wild Country, and twin axle plastic covered U shapes such as older (but not oldest) BD and Rock Empire (these have doubled slings). Agreed with need to get as high as poss so go with short slings into thumb loops and any into U shapes (can always clip direct into those).

Just priced up reslinging at Mtn Tools in the US, going to be £150 for 10 cams (£50 reslinging the rest on postage). Or £40 or so for extenders in UK....

In reply to philhilo:
thumb loop style middle aged BD

I could be wrong but isn't there a warning that the BD thumb loops won't take kindly to using a narrow sling or cord? I was under the impression BD used fat tapes on these cams to avoid the loop elongating and potentially cutting the sling under load?

In reply to Reach>Talent:

Yes seen some stuff on BD around the oval loop style deforming and either cutting the sling or permanently deforming the loop. I should have said the single thumb piece style (older) on the end of the axle rather than loop style (modern). The twin axles have bars across the axles which avoid the issue.

In reply to Ron Rees Davies:

Thanks. I need to take a look at my DMM cam extensions, I guess they don't go to larksfoot OR basket hitch but simply an "open" sling albeit with "detours"

In reply to philhilo:

here we go

http://blackdiamondequipment.com/en/experience-story?cid=qc-labreslinging-c...

In reply to philhilo:

If your heading to Yosemite in the autumn maybe ask someone here to fly them out all wrapped ready to post for delivery to Yosemite post office!

Though it sounds like most options work well enough. I have some original friends that someone re-threaded to go out to yosemite and then sold to me for $5 each. No problems so far!

If you end up with the full 30 odd cam rack it's worth getting the BD or metolius chest rack thing.

And take the big paper bags to poo in not the small ones.

In reply to Reach>Talent:

DMM found that the tape cut through the wire not the other way round.

In reply to Blue Straggler:

Yes that is the case. It obvious when you see it close up.

In reply to alasdair19:

Yep, planning on some kind of chest rig, can borrow at least one chest harness. 30+ cams sounds about right. Its getting heavy! Planning on using the Yosemite PO for getting a portaledge sent to from one of the companies in Moab, Fish or Runout Customs, cheaper than and half the weight of the BD or Metolius versions.