UKC

so with new house thinking of replacing clunky old PC tower, which I only use for photo storage, with something smaller that i can hide away somewhere. been having a look online and first question is do I need a home server or a NAS, not sure the difference though.

requirements long term are that it can be accessible for plugging camera in and storing all photos, plus at some point will be getting a sonos style setup so link with that/store all music would be great. have a new TV/blu rayer player that both have ethernet cables so I could presumably hard wire it into those to visually access the content of it. currently backup all photos from tower PC to onedrive which I guess I'd keep doing.

any suggestions from the UKC massive much appreciated!

oh and loving the new forum design!

In reply to d508934:
My other half has her own business and we have a DLink NAS at home as well as another at her office.
But when she maybe working on something either at both locations or a member of staff also working on it she uses Dropbox.
The more logins you have the greater free storage capacity you get.

I hope this helps

In reply to RichardP:

Having bought a NAS a few years ago I don't think I'd bother again. I stream from Napster to Sonos for music and use Dropbox for all my storage now as it's so easy. The NAS just gets used as an occasional extra hard drive for archiving now. Probably slightly more expensive all in basic NAS but way more convenient and easy to set up.

E

In reply to d508934:
A NAS is likely to be more power efficient than a server

what's your...
budget
disk space requirements

In reply to rallymania:

only got about 20GB of photos at present. don't want to spend more than £200 really, preferably less.

other comments are useful, could presumably avoid putting music on it by treating itunes account as a backup for purchased music and have a onedrive account for current photo back up.

In reply to d508934:

i think you should be able to get something from icybox / WD barebones for about £100 and add a couple of 1TB drives

i started with a thecus entry level NAS and wish i hadn't bothered, that particular one was sh1t. (a lot of their other products are fine though

if you do go NAS get a dual bay device and buy 2 identical hard drives so you can mirror them (you only get the space of one drive but, your data is on both disks so if one disk fails you don't lose anything)

i spent a bit more the second time round so can't personally recomend a specific device for £200 all in.

In reply to d508934:


I have a NAS device which holds all my music and photos and plays nicely with my Sonos setup too.

I did think about a Server using Linux and an old PC but a NAS was much less faff. It is smaller and cheaper on the electricity when running 24/7. From my little brain the server and NAS both do the same thing so its horses for coarses however I believe that the NAS is better suited to IT simpletons like myself.

I use the NAS as my main storage however I do have everything stored in several other places. You'd be silly to rely solely on the NAS for all your stuff because they too can die. Top tip buy the best server or NAS that you can afford because the old saying buy cheap, pay twice is so very true in this case.

My vote goes for a NAS only because I have one and have never used or built a server.

In reply to d508934:

If I was going down the server route, I would get a raspberry pi and put raspbian on it. Good on power, not as powerful as a full server but it doesn't sound like you are going to be doing anything power intensive, however will require a bit of work & learning setting up.

NAS boxes are great if you just want to use it for storage and nothing else, and normally close to plug and play.

In reply to JoshOvki:

That sounds like an excellent and cheap route to test out if you want to go down the server route.


Western Digital do some hard drives designed for NAS devices. Not sure how much of it is marketing however I have a couple of the 3TB drives in mu NAS box and never had a moment's worry.

http://store.westerndigital.com/store/wdeu/en_GB/pd/ThemeID.22586100/produc...

In reply to d508934:
If it is primarily to use just for file storage you could look at using a raspberry pi. Cheap and low power consumption.

http://www.howtogeek.com/139433/how-to-turn-a-raspberry-pi-into-a-low-power...

In reply to The Lemming:

so what model NAS have you got? like the sound of the more straight forward sounding approach esp the sonos compatibility. so if playing from tablet/smartphone you are just using that as a remote control i.e. I have currently got music saved directly to ipad/iphone but wouldn't be playing music directly from that right? instead just pointing sonos towards NAS using tablet?

you're right about avoiding a cheapo one. can't really put a price on old photos. how easy is it to backup from NAS to e.g. onedrive? hoping for a good interface which is big advantage of old skool PC at present.

will have a look at the raspberry option suggested but think it may be beyond my IT skill set!!!!

In reply to d508934:
I recently bought a cheap WD consumer NAS. It is a sealed unit so you can't swap out drives, but is a good cheap, basic, easy solution.

It just sits there providing storage for all our PCs as well as serving our photos, music and videos to DLNA devices like our hifi and TV.

The media server comes installed on the box and it's very easy to use. I use sync software to create various backups and syncs to the NAS as well as to other hard drives and the cloud where necessary. The NAS is primarily used for having a live up-to-date media library and for hosting regularly updated system images. Local storage is great for these as there can be a large amount of data to move.

If there's a downside to the WD drive it's that it can take a bit of messing about to get separate users successfully set up with secure areas and mapped drives, but this doesn't affect the media server. It also promised to make my files available online ( it's a 'MyCloud' product). I have no use for this, which is handy as it doesn't seem to work.

In reply to d508934:
Decent sync software will backup (or sync) from your NAS to OneDrive, though for many of them you'll need to pay to have this full functionality. I use GoodSync and like it, but there are dozens of options.

You can also do some fiddling around and map your NAS into Onedrive to use OneDrive's own sync system, but for anything more than a handful of actively used/shared files it's probably better to use software to manage and track your files.

In reply to hamsforlegs:

Ah ok. Plan is to replace pc and seems NAS options need laptop or pic for interface, syncing and so on. Looks like I'll have to investigate the server option a bit more and see if uploading of photos and so on can be done through TV screen with wireless keyboard.

Unless anyone knows a NAS that can do that!!!

In reply to d508934:


I have an iomega xi-200 NAS which I got from PC World. And as mentioned earlier before, buy cheap pay twice. I will never buy from iomega again for two reasons. The first is that the NAS box had two internal hard drives of a strange configuration for disk speed. A few years ago one of my hard drives died so I went in search of a replacement which was impossible as the drives were no longer manufactured and had some slow weird disk speed which ment that the remaining disk was incompatible with any new disks. This prompted me to buy two WD Red hard drives to replace both drives that came with the NAS. No great shakes there as I upgraded the storage space while I was at it.

The second reason was that iomega no longer support my NAS but it does support similar products to mine. Probably something to do with the company being bought out after I bought my product.

In future I will follow Rallymania's advice and go for either a QNAP or synology product as they are the dog's danglies.

As for my SONOS, the software knows that all my music is on the NAS which means that I can control it from any device in the house such as my desktop, phone, tablet or laptop and more importantly the desktop does NOT need to be switched on.

I have also have a Google chromecast plugged into my TV which play's movies from my NAS to the telly and controlled from a phone or tablet. Jolly fine this is too.


For backing up from my desktop to my NAS I use Microsoft's synctoy because it is exceptionally simple to use. And from time to time I back up the NAS device to an external hard drive. That way my desktop, NAS and external hard drive each hold my stuff.

http://www.microsoft.com/en-gb/download/details.aspx?id=15155


Personally, I'd say that the Raspberry pi is a DIY project and should be viewed as a bit of fun. Its high maintenance to learn and won't do as good a job as a dedicated NAS or Server. You may not think that you will need a NAS or Server till you get one for the home. But suddenly you will realise that these things become more and more invaluable as you find new uses for them without being chained to a desk.

In reply to d508934:

Slightly off topic, but i was talking with a guy from Panasonic on the tube last night on his way to the What HiFi awards.

He was telling me that their high end stuff is all based around the premise that music will be streamed in future (they include a CD option for old timers only).

I had thought he'd meant streamed from Spotify etc

In reply to d508934:

On a side note, depending on your wireless router, you might be able to plug an external harddrive into that and use it as a NAS box.

In reply to d508934:

After trying various solutions to the exact same problem, I ended up with an HP Proliant Microserver.

The way it works is this:

For about 6 months every couple of years HP sell Proliant Microservers for about £100. They are spectacular bits of kit, well-specced, easy to use, generally the dogs danglies.

After the six month period the price goes up to about £300 apart from world + dog selling ones they have bought for £100 still in their box for anywhere from £150--£250. Still cheap for what you get.

Near-silent, space for four hard drives (some people have put six in), energy efficient (40w), gigabit networking built in, etc, etc.

Would recommend.

In reply to John_Hat:
Another vote for the HP Microserver. I'm running one with the operating system on a solid state drive and twin 2TB drives for storage. Check out Vortexbox as an operating system - it gives you NAS style capabilities, auto rips CDs/DVD and works as a network music server.

One other point, rallymania suggested the you buy 2 identical hard drives, I would add to that get 2 identical spec drives from different manufactures rather than two from the same.

In reply to The Lemming:

interesting thoughts, thanks.



so you DO need a desktop then? (or laptop) hoping to replace current tower with NAS only

will have a look at synctoy - hopefully it could be setup to backup from NAS to onedrive automatically.

In reply to d508934:



I'd say laptop as a minimum, simply as a desktop and laptop are more powerful and versatile than tablets or phones. But then you interact with a NAS through a web page which means any device that can access the web can control the NAS.

I love my desktop and have no desire to replace it just yet simply because it is so versatile for my needs and powerful.

In reply to The Lemming:

ah ok. will see if i can setup synctoy or similar to link and auto-update between NAS and onedrive as a one off, then can dispense with desktop. some of the NAS options have media card readers so could presumably get new pics onto it direct in future.

otherwise it's a server i guess, assuming i can access that without PC or laptop. will have a look at the HP option mentioned, cheers again all!

In reply to d508934:

Western Digital My Cloud is nice in that its cheap, runs Linux and allows root access

In reply to d508934:


You may be in for a bit of a disappointment there, as Synctoy is very basic and does not have an auto option.

In reply to bigsecret:
very useful thread , especially like this :


would nt have thought of it , but simple and clever.

In reply to d508934:
You will be able to use a tablet to play from the NAS to Sonos (or any other DLNA device).

If you go down the route of setting it up and then getting rid of the computer, you might want to think about how you will access it to add new content and deal with configuration and maintenance/troubleshooting. Probably the latter could be done via tablet.

I don't really understand the benefit of a server over a desktop, apart from the low prices that John_Hat advises you can get on the HP Microservers. Seems to me that they are just mid/ low spec PCs configured with networking/power-management/storage-management options that are of limited use at home, and can in any case be put in place on a desktop if required. My (very) limited experience suggests that server OS are a pain for ordinary day-to-day use, but that might ease with familiarity.

I think the NAS will do most of what you are after, but if it were me I would try to have at least a cheap laptop on hand for sync operations and handling/gathering content.

If you're considering a server, you could look at building a cheap home theatre PC. You don't need a dedicated server unit or OS to do this, but just set up a quiet PC with the correct OS and media software to run in your living room. You can either use your TV or remote login for config and management. A common setup is to do this without much onboard storage, and use a NAS to host everything. This keeps the content accessible and manageable through other devices. This is essentially what a Raspberry Pi achieves; it's a tiny pc to dangle off your TV and access your NAS.

In reply to d508934:

I have a Synology NAS which has all sorts of additional software on it, best is my own CloudStation so I can have files available to every device which are instantly updated.

Massive storage and useful for backups/ music (which can be streamed from it), videos (again streaming available), can be switched on and off remotely.

It one of my favourite gadgets.

In reply to hamsforlegs:



i think this is what kills the NAS idea for me, not really interested in shelling out for both a NAS and a laptop which seems I'd need to do for adding new content, might as well stick to current bulky PC and carry on backing that up to onedrive. as you say i think tablet would be ok for doing some basic configuration but for anything serious need a proper computer. servers seem a little OTT and need a more IT savvy brain than I've got to setup.

hey ho, maybe I'll try again in a few years and see if NAS options in the future have improved apps that allow for new content without need of a computer. cheers all for the thoughts!

In reply to d508934:



I can access my NAS from my phone or tablet. I can log in as an administrator, do administrator stuff and probably, given enough skill set the NAS up from scratch from my tablet. I can add files, delete files and stream stuff.

Basically once the NAS is set up I can connect to it with anything that can play on my home network.

In reply to The Lemming:

so can you add files from say a digital camera? presumably connected directly to the NAS via usb? and then group, rotate, rename, file etc all from tablet? if so then great!

access for viewing and streaming seems pretty straightforward through tablet, it's the adding new files (i.e. folders of pictures where folder name is edited) that seems to be where pc or laptop is needed

In reply to hamsforlegs:


I finally got my MyCloud up and running on my shiny new internet last night. The hardest thing was that the user manual is very much a 'hold my hand and push these buttons', rather than explaining the fundamentals. Not helped by the fact that they supply a plethora of tools to do the same thing (management, access), and don't identify them easily.

As it turned out, the simplest setup was via the HTML interface, just like a router.

And local access works via normal windows file explorer. which is a good job, as the MyCloud PC app comes up with UI boxes that are white text on a white background (and presumably say 'do not press this button again'). So, utterly useless.

I've used the remote access, and it does work, although trying to stream FLACs from my home to my desk via the company's dirty wifi involved substantial 'buffering' issues. I soon got bored of the 2s bursts of music and 10s gaps...

It was a rather long night last night, fighting with installing security, connecting the PC to the internet for the first time, swapping the routers & dealing with the aftermath in Windows, sorting out IP addresses, setting up MyCloud account, sorting out new wifi access on tablets & media boxes, etc, etc.

And a lot of swearing.

In reply to d508934:

I was having the same dilemma a few months ago, ended up going down the server route, mainly because I managed to get an old PC from work for £20, I'm running Ubuntu server on it, and using Crashplan for cloud backup of all my files. This all works well, with one caveat.

Noise. I've tried hiding the box everywhere I can think of in our house, but the low pitched throb penetrates everywhere. It now resides under the eaves, resting on a cardboard box and some fabric to try and control this, but still has to be turned off overnight so we can't hear the hum. I think it is one of the hard drives rather than the fan, but it is bloody annoying, just something to think about when picking.

In reply to Sam W:

I looked at doing a similar thing with an old desktop, but guessed that the noise would be unmanageable without expensive upgrades to fans/drives etc. There's a growing industry in speccing and building quiet pcs as home servers.

Cheaper SSDs and NAS drives mean you can have a 'no moving parts' PC now; it won't necessarily be cheap, but it won't be silly money either.

In reply to d508934:

To be fair, if you just want to add JPEG photos and do basic cataloguing and/or use a limited media library, the NAS+tablet combination might be worth a shot?

The point of a NAS is really that it allows you to have large amounts of storage accessible to multiple devices. If you need one then it's probably because you have a lot of files to deal with. I would find it a pain to eg process and tag hundreds of photos or handle thousands of albums of music without having a computer, but if you have a stable and slow-growing collection you could certainly add to it and edit using a tablet.

If you don't have lots of files or a number of computers sharing storage, then a NAS might not be the right answer.

Remember you can set up your existing computer to act as a server for your media, and even make it's drives available on your network. This is standard functionality available in Windows. If you set it up to login automatically and open relevant software on startup, you can even run it 'headless' and have it tucked into a media cabinet or behind the sofa. Maybe have it near the TV so you can plug it in and use a wireless keyboard/trackpad if you need to fiddle with it.

If you're mainly aiming to reduce footprint, you could instead buy a mini PC like an intel NUC, which is small enough to attach to the back of your TV on a VESA bracket. Kind of like having an oversize Raspberry Pi, but able to run windows.