UKC

Hello all just a quick question that requires a simple answer. I am filling in my logbook for my mountain leader training and i was just wondering if a grade 1 scramble for example Crib Goch or Striding edge on hellvelyn would count as a quality mountain day. if on there own no then would it make it a quality mountain day because a summit of a mountain was involved for example summiting snowdon after Crib Goch or summiting hellvelyn as you would do after completing striding edge. I cant seem to find any info on this and i was just wondering if anyone could help.

Many thanks

Adam

In reply to Adam Tatlock:

I don't think Striding edge on it's own would count, I've done Helvellyn car to car in under 3 hours in snow! But as long as you are getting lots of experience, log everything.

The best advice I can give is don't do the numbers thing, turn up to assessment with as much experience in as many areas as possible, in as many conditions as possible.

After training you will receive advice on your log and areas that you need to work on. Practice navigation - a lot! and get a good torch for night nav. Don't do what I did and forget your compass on day 1, no real harm done as I borrowed one but it knocks your confidence somewhat!

Have fun and enjoy the course, you will learn loads on both the training and the assessment.

Steve D

In reply to Adam Tatlock:

Totally agree with Steve above. Your logbook is a demonstration of your experience, not a baseline ticklist. If you have minimum experience when you present yourself for assessment, expect to be scrutinised hard.

In reply to Adam Tatlock:
Adam,

I'm struggling to understand ' if a grade 1 scramble for example Crib Goch or Striding edge on hellvelyn would count as a quality mountain day. if on there own no then would it make it a quality mountain day because a summit of a mountain was involved for example summiting snowdon after Crib Goch or summiting hellvelyn as you would do after completing striding edge'. What you are trying to say is not clear.

To answer what I think you are asking:
If you do Crib Goch then you WILL be summiting even if not on Y Wyddfa. If you do Striding Edge then you WILL be getting up on to the Helvellyn ridge even if you don't kiss the top of Helvellyn. A quality mountain day does not 'need' a summit - you can learn a lot getting blown off a hill without getting to the top!

So. You want a simple answer? A high mountain scramble requiring a walk in and a finish on a major mountain WILL count as a QMD.

Enjoy your ML

In reply to andyathome:

A QMD is a day spent exploring in the mountains. No need to reach any summits. A half-day jaunt up a well-known route requring little use of navigational skills, whilst being great fun, is not really a QMD. Get off the beaten track; lose yourself & then try to find out where you are; navigate from A to B to C & back to A; spend all day out, then wild-camp & have a second QMD. Have fun. Nik

In reply to Adam Tatlock:

It's not a hard and fast rule, and not about the route itself - it's all about getting a variety of experiences and learning opportunities.

Going up striding edge onto Helvellyn for the first time, planning the day, plotting the route and timings, navigating and overcoming obstacles, taking a full day to achieve this. Yes that sounds pretty much like a QMD, log it as one.

Doing the same route again the next day in 3 hours - no, you're not learning anything new. Log it as mountain walking (but definitely still log it).

Doing the same route on a third day, in thick fog and finishing in the dark. Yes, that may again count as a QMD.

Have reasons justifying why you think your logged QMDs count as QMDs, but then aim to have far more of them than the "minimum requirement".

In reply to Adam Tatlock:

It would be a QMD in a nice varied logbook....

Scrambling is great to have in a logbook.

In reply to Adam Tatlock:

A QMD is likely to be 5 or more hours long, involve the ascent (or attempted ascent) of a named mountain, and involve something which is "technical" in the context of mountain walking - eg bad weather, scrambling, close navigation, party leadership. You need experience in more than just one of the UK and Ireland's mountain areas.

Selecting QMDs from my personal log prior to doing the training I included scrambling, solo mountain camping, informal group "leading", low grade climbs on long mountain routes (eg Tower Ridge, Crowberry Ridge) , winter days (despite it being summer ML training), with a geographical spread over Ireland, the Lakes, Snowdonia, and various parts of the Highlands. Most days were Highland but then that's where I live. Realistically for an aspirant ML in the UK, at least some Scottish experience should be regarded as essential.

Must have done the trick as part way through the course the lead instructor asked if it was OK to use my log as an exemplar for the other candidates.

In reply to Adam Tatlock:
There's plenty of info out there on what counts as a QMD, including on the MLTB website so I don't understand why it's so hard to find or understand.

For example:

In terms of experience, the quality of a mountain day lies in such things as the conditions experienced both overhead and underfoot, the exploration of new areas, the terrain covered and the physical and mental challenge. Such days make a positive contribution towards a person’s development and maturity as an all round mountaineer.

Usually some or all of these criteria would be fulfilled:

the individual takes part in the planning and leadership
navigation skills are required away from marked paths
experience must be in terrain and weather comparable to that found in UK and Irish hills
knowledge is increased and skills practised
attention is paid to safety
five hours or more journey time
adverse conditions may be encountered

And I suggest you learn to write sentences and paragraphs so they're a bit clearer.