UKC

Hello,

I did a flying lap (250m) today and I'm after some information about how to improve my time. My general fitness is very good, I have a feeling that to go quicker I should use a bigger gear but I read that maybe I should do some weight training? I know nothing about gyms/weight training, so I was just after some tips really. I can spin an easy gear (say 48x15) at 160rpm quite smoothly - albeit only for a short duration!

I can do 18 seconds on the 250m using 48x14 gearing, I also have a 15t sprocket but I've not tried that yet, don't think it'll help for this though. People I cycle with have done 16 second laps according to Strava and I think I'm as fit as them so I'm not sure where I'm going wrong really.

I've struggled to find good info about track cycling on-line, if you know any good site you could point me towards that would be great I'm going to the velodrome 3 times a week although it's closed for a few weeks now, so it'll just be training on the road bike/gym and exercise bike at home I suppose.

In reply to Richard Carter:

Your gear does sound quite low for a flying lap effort. Definitely worth seeing how you'd get on with 50x14 or 48x13.
Most of the sprinters I've know seem to spend more time in the gym doing heavy squats than bike riding.
Doing "give it everything" standing start efforts in an overly large gear may also be useful training.

In reply to JLS:


Mais oui. Sur la plaque

In reply to nufkin:

I don't understand and google translate doesn't appear to be helpful;
"But yeah. On the plate" ?

I guess you're agreeing that I need a big gear to try? Plate, it that like a big chainring or something?

In reply to Richard Carter:

Sorry, a flippant reference to The Rules ( specifically http://www.velominati.com/the-rules/#10 ).

But yes, a bigger chainring would be worth considering, as per JLS' post

In reply to nufkin:

When you say your general fitness is very good, what do you mean? Do you have a good 10 mile TT time? Have you soloed Annapurna in 24 hours? Do you run ultramarathons? Can you squat 200kg for 10 reps? Can you run 100m in under 11 seconds? These may sound like flippant questions, but fitness covers so many bases. If you want to be good at the flying lap, you have to be fit for the flying lap. Being fit for 100km club runs will be of limited use.

The flying lap has very little to do with general fitness, even general cycling fitness. It's pretty much the most extreme event in cycling in the sense that it is so short and requires such high power output. You will need to specifically train this aspect of your fitness - something which is quite demanding. Look at a book such as 'riding and training with a power meter' (even if you don't use a power meter - although for this type of training it might help). I'd suggest interval sessions which replicate the effort of the flying lap, so absolutely balls out for 10 seconds, recover, repeat. This kind of training (for me at least) is really crushing psychologically as it's just so hard and you really don't want to go after that third or fourth rep. Some gym work may also help especially if you have any weakness in your back or core which could give way during big efforts.

In reply to Richard Carter:

I've only ever done a couple of flying laps for fun so can't offer any real insight but is strava telling you anything useful? I'd guess the data isn't robust enough for proper comparison. I've got the CR for running a short steep hill nearby - I'm too vain to delete it, but I don't believe the accuracy really. You know your 15t is an easier gear yes?

Or try the Chris Hoy approach - the leg press machine didn't go high enough for him...
http://roadcyclinguk.com/blogs/weight-training-cycling-sir-chris-hoy-olympi...

In reply to SteveRi:

After investigation it turns out that Strava really isn't accurate at all. Still nevermind, I'm going to Manchester this week so I'll get an accurate time from that session and can go from there

Richard

In reply to Oujmik:

Hi Oujmik, I just meant that I was fit enough to be ready to progress onto specific training for this discipline. I've been doing that HIIT lately, 15s max, then 45s rest, and repeat x6. The problem I have is that it quite often makes me throw up :-P Well, actually that's not so bad - as you say, it's mainly the fact that it's utterly soul destroying LOL.

I've started using the gym and Saturday did 6x (10x140kg) on the leg press machine. My legs feel ok, a little tired, but not damaged or anything. The machine goes up to like 200 or 250 so plenty of room for improvement there! Aside from that I've done the usual core stuff, although I'm already pretty good for that in general.

I did my usual Sunday ride (100km) but tried to mix it up a bit and every few minutes I'd have an all out sprint see what I could hit, to make it a bit more like interval training.

In reply to SteveRi:

That picture in the link is ridiculous :-D

In reply to Richard Carter:

Mm, I guess some of us are chumps and some of us are champs
Here's another one: https://www.flickr.com/photos/mikekingphoto/2802638231/in/photolist-5gEfGP-...

In reply to Richard Carter:

Sounds like you're already going in the right direction then. Opinion is divided on the usefulness of gym work as opposed to just riding more flying laps, but it's worth a try to see how it goes for you. You could look at doing some squats - regarded as the holy grail of leg exercise by many weight trainers - but make sure you learn the correct form and build up weight gradually as it's easy to injure yourself otherwise.

The best tip I can give you is probably the one you've already had - find a better way to measure your laps times. Strava (and consumer GPS units in general) aren't precise enough for timings where +/-1 second is the difference between amazing and average.

In reply to Oujmik:

Well I'll be using the transponder timing chip thing at Manchester this week so at least moving on from then I'll have an accurate base to work forward from.

I've not had chance to get a new chainring/sprocket yet, so I'll be trying on my normal 48x14 this time round, but at least I'll be sticking with what I know for this session.

In reply to Richard Carter:

Ah that was disappointing. It was a taster session at Manchester - a lot of beginners using the track for the first time. They pretty much all just rode round the black or red line, so it was impossible to take a lap cleanly. I had a few goes, but each attempt involved a lot of over-taking and I didn't want to pass too closely as some of them looked a bit wobbly. Did a few laps around 17.9s so I figure I could easily get it down quite a bit if it was quieter. I just wish the velodrome I use normally had a fancy timing system like Manchester!

In reply to Richard Carter:

Just for your information the hour record was just broken yesterday at 52.850Km on a 200m track which gives an equivalent lap time on a 250m track of 17.03s. That was done on 55x13 and 98 rpm cadence. Which when you think about it is a pretty extrodinary performance. Jens Voigt did 51.115Km in September, but he is 43, another amazing performance.

RN

In reply to rossn:

51.85km actually - the 52km mark remains unbroken (albeit after only two attempts).

In reply to rossn:

Impressive stuff, I was watching it last night

No need to rub it in that I'm slow LOL

In reply to rossn:


Somehow seems a bit churlish no to let old Jens keep the record a bit longer

In reply to Richard Carter:

If you can convince enough guys from your club to go, you can take over the track at Manchester for a similar/less than price to a taster session. Done it with work a couple of times. We've done flying laps, pursuit, team pursuit etc and most of us were/are/will always be punters.

In reply to Richard Carter:

Have you considerred the Glasgow Velodrome as a one off trip. It will be a major faff to jump through the hoops of the registration process. But if you can manage that you'd be able book on to a 2hrs Saturday session (2pm-4pm) where you can train as you like on a fairly clear track. And to really make a day of it there is often stuctured sprint training session (every other week?) that follows (4pm-6pm).

In reply to JLS:

Well Manchester is closer and they also have SQT's, it's just getting through the accreditation process. It's 2.5 hour drive each way, so it gets quite costly for a bit of cycling. Plus I usually have to book about 2 months in advance as the sessions are always full. Who knows, maybe when Derby opens next year it'll take some of the pressure off Manchester.

I'd go to Glasgow but that's another hour each way of driving. The outdoor one I currently go to is 1 and a half hours of driving, so none of them are close. Next year there is an outdoor one opening just 30 mins from me so that'll be good.

In reply to Oujmik:

Your right, that was a typo, 51.85Km. Still incredible though. I'd like to see Tony Martin or Fabian Canchelara having a crack or Bradley Wiggins. We might see a few attempts over the next year or so. Nice to see it on TV as well. Hoorah for Eurosport.

RN

In reply to nufkin:

Ye that was a shame. At first I thought Jenzies mark was going to stand for a while but we didnt really have anything to compare it with. Merckx used a steel standard track bike outdoors, then we had the techno era with Moser, Boardman and Obree then back to basics and now something akin to a time trial bike adapted to the track. Really interesting stuff.
RN

In reply to rossn:

Jens's record was never meant to stand, it was intended as two things, a benchmark for the new rules and a last hurrah for a great athlete.

Doesn't matter that he only held the record for a few weeks, he is on the list.

Cancellara and Wiggins have both stated they are going to have a go. I suspect Wiggins will put it out of reach or anyone except possibly Tony Martin.

In reply to Richard Carter:

Ah, right. I assumed you were already accredited for Manchester. I'm sure the new Teesside track will help your cycling if you get stuck into any league they run. Shame it's not indoors mind but hey-ho.