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Sweden officially recognises state of Palestine

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 skog 30 Oct 2014

Sweden made the decision to recognise the state of Palestine a few weeks ago; this became official today:

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/oct/30/sweden-officially-recognises-s...

This seems a positive move; it's a shame the UK government doesn't seem ready to make it official here.
 balmybaldwin 30 Oct 2014
In reply to skog:

At last, some common sense
 Trangia 30 Oct 2014
In reply to skog:

I find it surprising that it has to be "officially" recognised. Palestine has been a de facto state for more than 1000 years. It's size has been eroded since much of it was handed over to the Jews to create the state of Israel. I don't know how you "unstate" a nation other than by grabbing land from it's existing citizens which is what Israel has done.

Unfortunately that is what has happened so I suppose the recognition is a positive step in an otherwise sad story.

Well done Sweden.
 dsh 30 Oct 2014
In reply to Trangia:
> I find it surprising that it has to be "officially" recognised. Palestine has been a de facto state for more than 1000 years.

To be fair Modern Palestine was only created by the British in the 1920s.

Prior to that it had been ruled by dozens of different empires, including the Egyptians, Assyrians, Greeks, Byzantines, Arab Empires, European Catholics, Mameluks, Ottomans and British. The borders were not always the same and the people who live here today are probably ancestors of all these empires, other than Israelis of European descent.

Scotland was an independent nation for longer.

Official recognition is a political game, look at Tibet, how many countries officially recognise their independence? However the people should be allowed to self determine without having their land grabbed, so official recognition is still good.
Post edited at 17:26
In reply to Trangia:
This is exactly my reaction. When did Palestine become "unrecognised"? It can not have been immediately the state of Israel was created within Palestine in 1947, because the surrounding land continued to be called Palestine. I am genuinely confused and I am asking this question without political motivation.
Post edited at 02:41
OP skog 31 Oct 2014
In reply to John Stainforth:

> This is exactly my reaction. When did Palestine become "unrecognised"?

My understanding is that, after the British Mandate ended in 1948, it split.

The international community were mostly quite quick to recognise Israel, but mostly left Palestine in political limbo.
 Bruce Hooker 31 Oct 2014
In reply to skog:

The problem is it was never recognised as an independent state since the notion of nation states has existed in today's terms. It was part of the Ottoman Empire then under British mandate (but never part of the British Empire) then when the Israelis declared UDI with the agreement of both the Eastern and Western blocks Palestine did not, could not, do the same. You and I may wonder why in 1948 a minority of the population could declare itself and be accepted as a nation state but that's what happened, against all ideas of self determination and democracy.

At least the British Parliament has recently voted in favour of doing the same by a majority of 274 to 12 but now they should do it, for the moment they haven't. Again when is democracy not democracy? When it doesn't suit certain vested interests.
OP skog 31 Oct 2014
In reply to Bruce Hooker:

> At least the British Parliament has recently voted in favour of doing the same by a majority of 274 to 12 but now they should do it, for the moment they haven't. Again when is democracy not democracy? When it doesn't suit certain vested interests.

There isn't anything the UK can do that won't upset someone here, so we should take the most decent and honest stance on this - the one parliament voted for - and work from there.

Surely having recognised both Israel and Palestine would be a better position to be in, one from which we'd be more credible when trying to help work towards peace? Hopefully Sweden's move will encourage more EU countries to do so.
 winhill 31 Oct 2014
In reply to skog:

> There isn't anything the UK can do that won't upset someone here, so we should take the most decent and honest stance on this - the one parliament voted for - and work from there.

> Surely having recognised both Israel and Palestine would be a better position to be in, one from which we'd be more credible when trying to help work towards peace? Hopefully Sweden's move will encourage more EU countries to do so.

The reason Palestine wasn't recognised was because the Palestinians didn't want it, and many (most?) still don't. The Jordanian Palestinian refugees can't see how their right of return has meaning if israel is recognised.

It doesn't make sense to support the recognition of Palestine whilst simultaneously de-legitimising Israel. From an Israeli POV that is always going to be seen as an act of aggression because it can only strengthen those who want Israel removed.

It's a tactical rather than a political solution, the question being whether Palestinian recognition strengthens Israel's hand , by encouraging the Palestinians or weakens it creating a body with an aggressive leadership.

It's a timely announcement as the PA spokesperson declares the closure of the Temple Mount an Act of War and Israel backs down within hours, demonstrating the continuing threat to peace and the weakness of Israel.


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