UKC

Who do you give money to as a tip and why?
To my knowledge many people give tips to restaurant staff and waiters/waitresses with no knowledge of how much they earn as it is the socially accepted thing to do. In the USA I believe tips are expected rather than voluntary.
What about other persons such as Binmen (sorry, refuse collectors), street sweepers, Nurses, Librarians etc etc?

Personally I dont tip and I never get any tips either regardless how much effort I put in to my work.

In reply to ow arm:

Lots of more expensive restaurants have a 10% discretionary service charge. I only pay this if I think it's really worthwhile, and even then I'll ask the maitre d' how transparent the restaurant is regarding monies collected. If I don't think the service warrants 10%, I'll ask for it to be removed, and maybe leave a proportion as a cash tip. I did this a couple of weeks ago - our meal came to £120, so assuming staff are paid around £10/hr I asked myself whether we received 1.2 hrs worth of service - unlikely in the 2 hr slot we were given.

I'm also skeptical about adding a gratuity on card machines - in a lot of places, especially chain restaurants, I'm not convinced staff see a fair proportion of this. I'd much rather leave cash on the table, so the people serving me can at least see I appreciate them.

I don't tip refuse collectors, postmen, etc. My parents use to in the 70s at Christmas.
Never heard of librarians being tipped.

In reply to FrankBooth:
The whole thing stinks. Successful restaurants make good money but that rarely feeds down to the waiting staff who are effectively the public face of the business. That said, good waiters in the right place can make upwards of £30k extra a year in tips alone which naturally is not taxed. And then there are the owners who pay low wages knowing their staff might make up the difference in tips, or worse still, pilfer the tips for themselves. By tipping, you are feeding into this inherently corrupt system.

I used to tip - I don't tip any more. Why should people be tipped for doing their job?

In reply to ow arm:

I tip in restaurants, and normally round up taxi fares to the nearest pound or so unless they've driven like an arse.

I don't get the thing of tipping in a situation where you aren't really giving people money anyway, eg delivery people, hotel porters (if I ever stayed anywhere posh enough to have porters), that sort of thing. It just seems like it must be really awkward somewhere like the US to be constantly fumbling for your wallet and trying to find an appropriate amount of cash (and hoping you've actually got some) every five minutes.

In reply to ow arm:

If the bin men could make the effort just once a year to walk the one meter across my vast front "lawn" to get my bin on occasions I forget to put it out, then they might stand a chance of a tip.

In reply to FrankBooth:
"...so assuming staff are paid around £10/hr..."

Highly unlikely to be more than minimum wage in most restaurants unfortunately. Most likely a zero hour contract on top of that with no reliable fixed hours on a week to week basis.

In reply to ByEek:

I agree. I don't tip in restaurants, there are loads of people on low wages I don't see why restaurant staff should get special treatment. It's up to the manager/owner to charge appropriately, and pay appropriately.

I've been out with people on minimum wage, and zero hours contacts, who do worse work than waiters.... yet they feel obliged to tip waiters, madness.

In reply to Mike Stretford:

I think the real "madness" is a legal minimum wage which doesn't equate to a living wage.

I think our real gripe should be with pitiful wages rather than tipping culture.

In reply to ow arm:


Used to work as a waiter a bit and tips made a huge difference. On some weeks you got pretty much nothing but on busy weeks this sometimes almost doubled my weekly wage. (Which was, of course, minimum wage).

This made a huge difference to me, allowing me to go on a couple of night outs or go climbing and actually have some sort of life instead of staying home easting 10p packs of Lidl noodles.

At the end of the day tipping by principle is as stupid as not tipping by principle, in my view, it is simply a gift you make to another human being you enjoyed interacting with for a bit.

In reply to ow arm:

Tipping is a weird ananchronism. I still do it but, on the odd occasion I can be bothered to think about it I find it annoyng/bewildering that some business people expect me to pay their employees directly for them. Why am I expected to pay waiters but not checkout staff. Why does the person who makes my coffee have a tips jar on the counter even though I stand there to collect my brew and carry it to the table myself. Surely that's just a shop assistant? My baker or greengrocer don't expect gratuities. Why am I expected to tip the taxi driver but not the bus or train driver or airline pilot?

In reply to ow arm:

I tipped in a restaurant the other week (4 of us in the group) we left more than 10% of the bill to the waitress that served us. She was brilliant not just from a serving point of view but also the way she talked to us with non work related stuff, had us practically crying with laughter.

Now I appreciate not everyone wants that type of interaction when they go to a restaurant, but its staff like that willing to interact on a personal level and not just a professional level that is more likely to get me to leave a tip, recommend the restaurant and make sure I go back etc. Its the same if I go to bars etc sometimes you get a bar tender who you just end up having a bit of a laugh with over the counter. In those cases I always say take enough for a drink for yourself etc.

Other than that I don't really tip other than I will give the paper boy/girl a tip at Christmas




.

In reply to ow arm:

As an ex delivery boy I used to find people waiting for their 3p change, whilst it was raining, bad form.

Tips used to form a significant proportion of my income and the cash used to go straight back into my car (New tyres, clutch etc.). The tips were much appreciated and made the job 'worth' doing.

In reply to RomTheBear:


It isn't that simple when there is social pressure to do it. Its embarrassing and uncomfortable. Far better have a policy where service is always included (which it should be - its their job)

In reply to Oldsign:


They are not mutually exclusive. I would like a higher minimum wage whilst also objecting to tipping culture. I should be able to go to a restaurant and treat it as a whole business.... not with the waiter as some sort of sub-contractor.

In reply to ow arm:

Tips can make a huge difference to wages and the low paid are not always the ones you think they are. Before starting work I was a part time lounge waiter in a hotel and, purely because of the tips, actually took a hefty pay cut when I left to become a full time trainee journalist.

In reply to GrahamD:


I never felt pressured to leave a tip, at least in the UK.


I think it's not really about paying for the service though. It's more about giving a small gift to someone you interacted with and is probably not making loads of cash right now.
But whatever floats your boat, if you don't like tipping, don't, and certainly do not feel obliged to do so.

In reply to RomTheBear:

It's more about giving a small gift to someone you interacted with and is probably not making loads of cash right now.

But there's the mystrery. Why is it only certain unwritten yet somehow clearly-defined groups such as waiters that we tip? If I treat myself to a bacon butty from my local baker and the shop happens to be quiet I may be chatting (interacting) to the lass behind the counter for five minutes or more but never feel tempted to leave her a tip when she hands over the butty whereas I would tip a waiter as a matter of course and only withold a tip if the service had been exceptionally bad.

In reply to Alan M:


There has been quite a bit of study on tipping and yes, doing the sort of stuff she did gets you more tips.

There is an excellent Freakenomics podcast on it here:
http://freakonomics.com/2013/06/03/should-tipping-be-banned-a-new-freakonom...

In reply to Wiley Coyote:


Well that's it we either tip everybody or nobody. I'd rather tip nobody and rely on the owner/manager to sort out remuneration.

In reply to RomTheBear:

About seven years ago, I spent an evening at Refuge Orto di u Piobbu on Corsica getting seriously trolleyed with a group of Bavarian lads and a couple of Frenchmen we'd met at dinner.

The gardienne was brilliant, and kept topping us up with the house red, and even managed to rustle up a small plate of cheese from the hut's depleted supplies when I got the munchies (it was a very busy season on the GR).

Late at night, when it really was time to retire to our beds, I got a tip ready to leave for her - but the remaining Frenchmen was very insistent that I must not, that it was something that just shouldn't be done. I was too drunk to have a discussion about the details of his reasoning, and just gave in. Do you have any insight on this, or was it likely to have been more about his personal politics?


(After that I realised I didn't have my headtorch, having originally intended to retire after food - and I could barely see. Or walk, for that matter. With the false confidence of the inebriated, I staggered down through the camping area, tripping over rocks, crawling through thorn bushes, trying to work out where my tent was without inadvertently wandering off the nearby cliff. Just as I was about to give up and sleep behind a small wall, I found it and crawled in beside my long-suffering girlfriend. She still married me, so I guess I got away with it - though it took some time for the thorn-gouges to heal!)

In reply to ow arm:


I tip a minimum of 10% in restaurants (e.g. in the UK) with table service. I do it because many moons ago Mrs Abseil worked as a waiter for a while and told me what it's like.

As you say the USA is different, American friends of mine say tipping is a must and they suggest a minimum of 15%.

Tipping "refuse collectors / street sweepers" doesn't arise for me, there are none here.

If you ever get a chance read "Nickel and Dimed" by Barbara Ehrenreich, Picador, 2001. It's a real shocker and eye opener. She worked in "low-wage America" as a waitress, store assistant, house cleaner, and hotel maid for a long time, living off the money she made i.e. in cheap apartments and cheap motels. You might never feel the same about low-wage workers again if you read it (I won't).

In reply to ow arm:

I usually tip in restaurants, sometimes in pubs. I like good service, staff that provide good service and improve my customer experience usually don't get paid any more than staff that don't. I like to reward that service.

It's my money, I spend it how I choose, I realise that the same argument could be applied to a number of jobs, but not so many that I come in to regular contact with.

In reply to ow arm:

I hate restaurants that add a compulsory service charge. I tip, but it should always be optional.

In reply to skog:


Probably down to his personal politics, it's perfectly fine to tip in France and Corsica as far as I know, even though people tend to tip less and less often than in the UK.

In reply to ByEek:

I'm not surprised, for me personally that type of interaction is a welcome positive. It was her personality and the way she interacted with us that made an already good restaurant experience in to a great restaurant experience. However, like I say I do recognise that some people don't want that type of interaction when going for a meal etc.



Will have a listen

In reply to RomTheBear:

OK, thanks - I did wonder whether I'd stumbled on a national taboo against tipping hut guardians, or something like that!

In reply to The New NickB:

I agree, but I'm pretty sure that it's never compulsory:
http://www.moneysavingexpert.com/shopping/restaurant-rights#qfour

Even paying for the food isn't compulsory, as I understand it - if you believe it is "not of satisfactory quality".

In reply to RomTheBear:


You might not, others do. And we don't spend all our lives in the UK.


I don't, personally

In reply to Alan M:



It is more subliminal than that. Contributors to the programme talk about making more tips if you lower yourself to the level of the table or touch people on the shoulders / arms. Basically they are flirting with the table occupants and it looks like this lassie took you hook-line-and-sinker!

In reply to ByEek:

Possibly however, our table was a mixed group 2 women 2 men The girls on our table were having just as much a positive interaction with her as the other bloke and I. The girls actually commented on how nice the waitress was. If she was playing the crowd she deserves the tip we gave as she certainly knows how to work a crowd .

I agree with you on the subliminal interactions though but not the flirting element as I tip blokes in the same manner. I tip more on my interaction with them than the actual service.

In reply to The New NickB:


Why not supermarket checkouts?

In reply to skog:

I believe in Japan it is rude to tip.

In reply to MG:


Not rude but not usual - more than once I've left a tip there on the plate and had a waiter running after me to give it back, thinking I'd left it by mistake (the most recent time was less than a year ago). One actually ran right across a long road bridge to catch up with me.

Edit, I've never lived in Japan but visited many times, any comments from readers who live there?

In reply to ow arm:

I'm fairly average on it, really - 10% ish in a restaurant and round up in a taxi. However one strict rule I do have is if a service employee asks for a tip (this includes cheeky messages[1] written on the bill) one will never be given. And if there is a service charge I don't tip on top of it, as I know many restaurants do that to large groups to be cheeky[2] in the hope they'll double-tip despite them giving them a load of business in one go.

I would rather service was factored into the prices in service industries, though, with any extra completely discretionary.

[1] I have complained about staff in the past for doing that, e.g. circling the service not included and writing something next to it, and I will do again. It's rude.

[2] Partly, and partly because large groups are less likely to tip, but if it was the latter they would be honest and make it prominent on the bill and menu rather than in tiny print.

Neil

In reply to Wiley Coyote:

Then you've got the curiosity of the pub. In most other countries you tip the barman (or don't at all), whereas here you can buy them a drink (though not many people do it, and I have only rarely). Really confuses tourists.

Neil

In reply to ow arm:

To the "why tip waiters/bar staff but not everyone?" , its because those industries are much more about making sure you are enjoying yourself. You don't tip a checkout operator because (except rarely, I'm sure SOMEONE will give a long anecdote about a friendly check out assistant) because their job is simply to add up the cost of your shopping and charge you. A good barman will entertain you, cheer you up on a bad day, let you vent, introduce you (subtly ) to others if you're there on your own, smile, be friendly etc. All that is NOT part of the job. All the job requires is politeness.

In reply to Scarab9:


Too right. Why only last week I tried to tip the police when they pulled me over on the M6. They were not at all amused and said they'd let me go with a warning. What did I do wrong??

But I like the idea of tipping everyone. Now I'm going to try with Tesco checkout staff, my dentist, BA pilots, bus drivers.

In reply to abseil:


More like 20% minimum but usually 25% for good service.

you would still leave 10% for bad service, unless it's really terrible in which you leave a nickel to prove a point and not just you forgot. But you would probably have left by this point.

I do not begrudge leaving a tip though. The service is nearly always good and they be making a $2 an hour without it, which is really bad anywhere but especially in the US with no NHS etc. It's just something you have to factor into the cost of a meal. What I dislike is in the UK where the service charge is often included, even though the service is often mediocre, and often the staff don't receive it.

In reply to Scarab9:


I don't want a barman or waiter to entertain me... just do their job. If I wanted entertaining I'd go to a show.

An effcicient checkout operator can make the shopping experience better, as can an efficient waiter a meal. There's no 'why?'..... tip both or neither.

In reply to dsh:


Thanks a lot for your update about the minimum, that's useful. (And "$2 an hour"? That's horrendous).

In reply to Scarab9:



This, and from Neil's post, this:
"I would rather service was factored into the prices in service industries, though, with any extra completely discretionary."
make a lot of sense. Paying someone a bit extra if you feel that they've gone above and beyond what the job requires is fine, IMO. Being generally expected to pay them a bit extra because it's a core part of the renumeration for doing their job competently is a bit silly. Although until that's the case I'll continue to leave about 10% as standard.

In reply to ow arm:

I was reminded of this article in Slate from a while ago ...

http://www.slate.com/articles/life/culturebox/2013/08/tipless_restaurants_t...

It describes an interesting take upon the process of tipping. What is it that you're trying to achieve by tipping (or not tipping for that matter)?

From the article:


...

In reply to abseil:


Yeh, it's because the assumption of tips counts towards minimum wage, so by law their employer does not have to pay them minimum wage.

In reply to dsh:


They have to make it up to real minimum wage if the tips don't cover it.

In reply to Mike Stretford:


Supermarkets generally pay pretty well for the skill sets they require, which somewhat weakens your argument, better than a lot of other retail, that perhaps weakens mine.

There is of course, much more of a service element to restaurants.

In reply to The New NickB:


Dunno

http://www.payscale.com/research/UK/Job=Checkout_Operator/Hourly_Rate


Yeah but it's everybody working there that contributes. I want the owner/manager to sort out remuneration...... as part of the service!

In reply to ow arm:

Nope, Never have, never will

Why should I pay someone extra to do their job?

In reply to ow arm:

I usually tip in a table-service restaurant that charges afterwards (Wetherspoons staff miss out), but I don't like it when I tip and then somebody pays by working out the difference between the cash and the total.

I also dislike having a charge added for me, I'm capable of doing it myself.

Sometimes staff genuinely do enhance an experience. Sometimes they do go too far though, I've complained about that before.

I once had a 5-minute interaction with the girl behind the counter in one of our local shops; she seemed to take offence when I offered her money.

In reply to Timarzi:


lucky you!

In reply to ow arm:

I never tip unless I receive some service that is genuinely above and beyond what I'm already paying for in the first place.

I have never tipped a Taxi driver in my life - especially good fun in London, where the cabbies all started to get a bit above themselves after one of them won Mastermind back in the 70's.

And I am currently enjoying pissing off the pompous ass 'Maitre d's in every restaurant we go in near where we live - by not tipping.

The whole concept of tipping is fundamentally flawed, as illustrated by my late father.

A few days after he left hospital following emergency heart surgery which saved his life, we went for a meal, after which he tipped the waiter. I asked him whether or not he'd tipped the heart surgeon and nurses who had saved his life - as opposed to the waiter, who had done nothing more than successfully deliver a bowl of soup without doing a Jackson Pollock impression up the wall - and he said no!

After a short pause, he looked at me, smiled and said 'I see your point son'.

I don't think he ever tipped again

In reply to Wiley Coyote:


That's a fair point, though I did tip a girl in a chip shop because she looked fed up. Perhaps tipping more people is the answer to your conundrum? ()

In reply to ow arm:
Didn't tip once in a chinese restaurant in Moab as the food and service was terrible (and would have been for half they charged). Its the one and only time we faced 'the wrath'. I can't beleive some posters here sytematically piss off their local restaurants. Im a coward so having read Down and Out in Paris and London I never complained again until all food was served and my intent was never to go back.

In reply to FrankBooth:
I too would never tip by card. I ask the waiter / waitress the policy and if they tell me they get a proper share I will give them a cash tip (just to make sure). I find card machines set up to request a tip a bit of an affront.

In reply to ow arm:
In my view, tipping should be eradicated.
Restaurant owners should just pay the correct wage?

In reply to ow arm:

One aspect to tipping (in the US) which I'd never thought about before - In the US waitperson "pay" is around £2 / hour. You declare tips as self-employment income (and the tax folks can asses you for what they think is the fair amount based on your employer's gross receipts). Self employment income is taxed at a higher rate than employee income (as the employer is required to kick in some tax also, as happens also in the UK and France and likely elsewhere).

But what if you wanted to go on holiday? Well, obviously, no income. Pretty brutal compared to some management type raking down six figures and likely getting at least 3 weeks paid leave, possibly more (management invariably get better than the usual 2 weeks in a good job....)

So I always tip in the region of 20%. It used to be 15% until employment practices got really brutal about 10 years ago.

In reply to ow arm:

I worked in a large chain bike shop on minimum wage. I often spent in excess of an hour with a customer ensuring they got the right bike (rarely the most expensive) Then when the bike was built I could spend another significant amount of time with them getting it all set up for them and if necessary explaining how the gears worked and how to maintain it etc.

No-one ever tipped me, but apparently I'm expected to tip another minimum wage earner for carrying a plate 5m from the kitchen to a table.

I don't tip.