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Cross bike - winter wheels / tyres for commute recommendations

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 AlisonSmiles 12 Nov 2014
I'm pondering ice tyres for the cross bike for the winter commute - it's a mix of tow path / gravel type surfaces and tarmac, probably about 25% off road. I realise that when the going gets a bit tougher that rather than fiddle around changing tyres in the morning I'm likely to opt for the easy option of the train, so reckon two pairs of wheels is the way to go, one with ice tyres and one with normal commute tyres on.

So, what do I get - do I get nicer wheels for the summer and make my current wheels my winter ones? Do I think about going tubeless, and get a wheel / tyre combo to suit. If I do that, do I go tubeless in the summer or the winter as I don't think I have a budget to get two more pairs of wheels ...

And whatever the outcome, any wheel deals out there anyone would recommend? I'm on discs.
 Phil79 12 Nov 2014
In reply to AlisonSmiles:
The stock answer to questions about commuting tyres is usually 'put some Schwalbe Marathons on', which I would think is good advice here! The Marathon Plus has a fairly good tread pattern for mixed terrain riding (on/off road, bad weather, etc). I have run various pairs of Schwalbe's for years and I cant remember the last time I had a puncture.

Dedicated ice tyres are spiked/studded and are pointless 99% of the time in the UK winter. If it looks that icy/snowy run your tires at a lower pressure and go slower, or get the train.

Two wheel sets? Well depends if you are feeling flush, personally I don't bother on my road bike (but then I'm fairly tight!).

I'm not convinced by tubeless tbh, seems a lot of expense for a fairly marginal weight gain. Although lots of people rave about them.
Post edited at 10:48
 wilkesley 12 Nov 2014
In reply to Phil79:

If it's really snowy/icy on the roads I would suggest getting the train. One winter problem is cold mornings when the road is damp, leading to black ice. It's often difficult to predict when this will happen. Having taken a couple of fliers on black ice myself, I try to avoid cycling when I think there might be some about. With black ice it doesn't really matter what tyres you have (although studs might help), you will probably still slide on it.
 the sheep 12 Nov 2014
In reply to Phil79:

As Phil says the Marathon Plus are great tyres, hard wearing and puncture resistant (not had one in the last couple of years). My commute is very similar to yours (also done on a CX bike) so would highly recomend them with the aside that they are a tad heavier than normal tyres.
OP AlisonSmiles 12 Nov 2014
In reply to Phil79:

I have tubeless on the mountain bike and it's not about the weight gain; I can run them lower pressure and have been pretty much puncture free for a couple of years (other than the usual more catastrophic type incident). I was contemplating that tubeless with ice tyres might go well because of the running them at lower pressure possibility. No idea what that would do to ice tyres with the studs on the outer edges ...
 kbow265 12 Nov 2014
In reply to AlisonSmiles:

Another vote for the Schwalbe marathons. No complaints as a tyre, I use them all year round and the sidewall reflectors show up really well.
 Oujmik 12 Nov 2014
In reply to wilkesley:

+1 Black ice is horrific and even as an experienced racing cyclist one day of cycling on black ice last winter has really undermined my confidence whenever the road looks at all damp.

If the towpath and gravel surfaces are quite hard and well-drained (i.e. they don't get soft and muddy) you could probably go with a robust road tyre without tread - something like Conti GP 4 seasons in 28mm. Otherwise something with a little tread to it such as the schwalbe might be more confidence inspiring. However, if you are 75% on road you don't want something too leg-sapping.
 Phil79 12 Nov 2014
In reply to AlisonSmiles:

> I have tubeless on the mountain bike and it's not about the weight gain; I can run them lower pressure and have been pretty much puncture free for a couple of years (other than the usual more catastrophic type incident). I was contemplating that tubeless with ice tyres might go well because of the running them at lower pressure possibility. No idea what that would do to ice tyres with the studs on the outer edges ...

Good point regarding tyre pressures. I haven't MTB'ed for a long while, but being fairly light I can't remember suffering much from pinch flats anyway.

Again, I would think actual studded tyres are a waste of time in the UK, how many days of snow cover/compacted ice do we actually get in a year? Its somewhere between 0 - 5 days down here in Devon (I guess a few more in Manchester?) but is it enough to warrant a 2nd pair of tires and/or wheelset? I would say no. I don't think you would want to be riding them in less than full winter conditions as they would wear out too fast.
 malk 12 Nov 2014
In reply to AlisonSmiles:
i'm happy with my vittoria randonneur IIs- lighter and much cheaper than marathon plus
still not an ice tyre tho..
Post edited at 13:54
 Scomuir 12 Nov 2014
In reply to Phil79:

You live in Devon, and are making a sweeping generalisation about the weather and road conditions for the whole UK based on your rather southerly location...

I've got studded tyres for my bike, and whilst they were not necessary during last winters mild temperatures, they proved invaluable the previous three winters. There were at least two 4 week long periods where my commute was entirely on snow and ice every single day. They are brilliant for days when black ice is present. In fact, that's where they are at their best, as it's far easier to get caught out and end up off the bike in these conditions.

 Mike Stretford 12 Nov 2014
In reply to AlisonSmiles:
> so reckon two pairs of wheels is the way to go, one with ice tyres and one with normal commute tyres on.

I've wondered about doing this (not for winter but between knobblies and slicks), I suppose you have to get the same rear cassette on each? Or does it matter?
Post edited at 15:32
OP AlisonSmiles 12 Nov 2014
In reply to Scomuir:

Thank you - I was starting to feel rather discouraged by the "just catch the train" attitude! Apparently the train doesn't always make it through to where I live when there's snow about.
 Scomuir 12 Nov 2014
In reply to AlisonSmiles:

I got grief (but in a good way) from the boss once, because I live 10 miles out of town, and made it to work when apparently people in town found it too hazardous to make it into work and were claiming a "snow day" Even if you don't use the tyres much, they are still worth it for when you do need them. It wasn't that long ago people were extremely dismissive of winter tyres for cars, yet a few "bad" winters, and attitudes have changed.

Practicalities aside, they have provided numerous memorable situations, such as cycling uphill past a wheel spinning AA van on ice, past mates walking uphill through a field as they couldn't get a grip on an icy track, and my favourite, laughing at the taxi driver who shouted at me that I was stupid and mad for cycling. I was perfectly in control - he was standing next to his taxi which had slid off the road (as he didn't have the right tyres). For the unwarranted abuse I got, I rubbed it in by going back and cycling silently in a circle in front of him a couple of times on hard packed icy snow before cycling off. If he hadn't been such an idiot, I'd have helped him out, as I did to others in similar situations.
 Phil79 12 Nov 2014
In reply to Scomuir:

> You live in Devon, and are making a sweeping generalisation about the weather and road conditions for the whole UK based on your rather southerly location...

OK, perhaps I shouldn't have been so sweeping. What I was trying to get at was I cant imagine for most people its cost effective to have a second wheel set exclusively for the short period of time when there is snow on the road.

Have you? Or do you stick the studs on when required?

 Scomuir 12 Nov 2014
In reply to Phil79:

II wasn't discussing wheels - just the tyres. You don't need another set of wheels, but it certainly would make life easier. No, I don't have a spare wheel set - I have just a spare front wheel Haven't got round to getting hold of a spare rear wheel yet, but probably will.
 TobyA 12 Nov 2014
In reply to AlisonSmiles:

I have 3 pairs of Schwalbes now: Marathon Plus (10,000 kms at least and no punctures), Marathon Plus Tours (a bit more tread so better on gravel) AND Marathon Winter (studded). In Helsinki I used to use the Winters normally from November to March or April, and they're good; particularly on ice and very packed snow ( vimeo.com/55199226 ), but they still not brilliant on unploughed snow which I suspect is more likely conditions in the UK. Yes, they'll be much better on black ice than normal tires although they are noticeably slower, which means now I'm living in the UK I suspect I won't use them this winter unless we get exceptionally cold weather for a decent number of days.

A second wheelset would be nice if you've got the money, but wheels, discs, and cassette ON TOP OF expensive tires (studs are pricey)? Too much for me, particularly for England where I think usage will be down to just a few days each winter. I guess this winter if it gets really icy, I'll just suck it up and change tyres when necessary! Marathons can be tricky to change, but I've done it enough to know the knack now!
 Stig 12 Nov 2014
In reply to AlisonSmiles:

Add me to the list of people who didn't really know what you were talking about in your OP (and I live a few miles from you and commuted all through last winter).

If my commute was what you described (which a good part of it is) there I'd be sticking to my winter/all year slicks (Sch Duranos), which I've just swapped off my cross bike onto my road bike wheels. A big chunk of my commute though is on the Middlewood way which can be a bit of a quagmire at times so I use Sch XC Pros. That sort of thing might be what you want (I got mine in SVC btw)?

I really can't conceive of how studded tyres can be cost effective in our winters (and I reckon we're going to get another wet/mild one, ha!). Icy conditions are just lethal really. 5 years ago I crashed twice on one morning commute, totally unpredictable black ice. First time slid 20yards in the middle of the road and the other time lost my front wheel, banged my temple, wrist, shoulder etc. Fell twice last winter too at very low speed, crashing onto my hip. Not worth it, get the train! Run instead?

Buying 700c disk wheels is a pain. There doesn't seem to be any choice and seem too expensive to me. Keep an eye on ebay though - sometimes people sell off newish sets when they're upgrading: Boardman, Giant - that sort of thing.
 Stig 12 Nov 2014
In reply to TobyA:

They weigh a ton!! Durano Plus would be another one worth considering...
 Scomuir 12 Nov 2014
In reply to Stig:

> I really can't conceive of how studded tyres can be cost effective in our winters (and I reckon we're going to get another wet/mild one, ha!). Icy conditions are just lethal really. 5 years ago I crashed twice on one morning commute, totally unpredictable black ice. First time slid 20yards in the middle of the road and the other time lost my front wheel, banged my temple, wrist, shoulder etc. Fell twice last winter too at very low speed, crashing onto my hip. Not worth it, get the train! Run instead?

I applaud you for using the words "cost effective" on a biking forum, as they are rarely seen. However, i feel this is the wrong approach. How much would a return train journey cost per day? How much for a week (of icy conditions)? Once that money is gone, it's gone. With a set of spiky tyres, you can re-use them for years as I have done, and only when the conditions dictate (often predictable by watching weather forecasts). It's much more fun than sitting in traffic/getting the train, or indeed, sustaining the injuries that you listed.
 Brass Nipples 12 Nov 2014
In reply to AlisonSmiles:

When icy I go off road to work. If cold enough for ice off road tracks are generally solid, no mud. Porous surfaces don't suffer from black ice. It's great fun.

 TobyA 12 Nov 2014
In reply to Stig:

When my mate rode my CX bike into a ditch and made the front wheel taco shaped (long story!), he insisted on replacing it for me. We found a Shimano disc ready 29er wheel which fits perfectly. About €70 I think, so not nothing but a lot less than a specific CX disc wheels I could find.
OP AlisonSmiles 13 Nov 2014
In reply to Stig:

I guess I quite enjoyed using studded ice tyres on the mountain bike a couple of years ago where we got a proper winter, and figured it might make sense on the cross bike. I shall cogitate ...
 Mike Stretford 13 Nov 2014
In reply to Phil79:

> OK, perhaps I shouldn't have been so sweeping. What I was trying to get at was I cant imagine for most people its cost effective to have a second wheel set exclusively for the short period of time when there is snow on the road.

They would last a long time though wouldn't they, and if the rider enjoys the commute? 'Cost effective' and 'fun' aren't really something you can equate....... look at what people spend on cars to give them pleasure!

My thought.... could you forgo the expense of a rear cassette and just go with one cog on the back on your ice wheels..... effectively go 3 speed for for your 'ice bike'?

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