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Reaching a plateau ...

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 xbraddersx 22 Nov 2014
Hello all!

I'm reaching a plateau and finding it difficult to not to overwork this in training sessions.

Regularly boulder indoors V3/4 (can flash V2/3, slightly harder level may take a few goes/sessions - overlapping grades is how the wall works). I've been at this level for a number months after progressing fairly quickly (started bouldering indoors in March). Thought I'd broken this with my first V4/5 a month ago, but have been unable to match this level since.

I'm a 5ft 6, slim female, so I'm not really sure whether strength is why I can't progress? My climbing partner (male) used to boulder at the same level but has had no trouble with moving to V4/5, completing several routes at this level.

For comparison purposes, I boulder much more than lead, and can just about manage a sustained 6a indoors. I'm not usually grade focused but since my friends can all boulder higher grades than me, I feel I've started to enjoy it less because we can't work through the problems together.

Any advice? Just keep at it?

Thanks,
K
 Brass Nipples 22 Nov 2014
In reply to couldxbe:

If you're climbing on Kinder's Northern edges then you will indeed found you have reached a plateau. I'd suggest trying climbing in the Lakes or Wales where you will not find yourself on a plateau.
OP xbraddersx 22 Nov 2014
In reply to Orgsm:

Oh, outdoors sure. This was more aimed towards indoor training. I'm fairly new to outdoor climbing, I expect to find anything difficult :p
 Rich W Parker 22 Nov 2014
In reply to couldxbe:

Hi, I'm not much of a coach, but here goes...... whatever you've been doing training wise has got you this far but no further, so you need to change something. Challenge your weaknesses ruthlessly. If you don't like slopers because you're not good at them, then do lots of work on that. Basically you need to stress your body more and, crucially, in different ways to see further gains, don't carry on as you have. It'll help to train for strength on a board or whatever. During this phase I'd try problems and routes a good few grades harder than you'd expect to succeed on, not just the next grade, then come back to your worked grade and experience it with a new perspective. Don't just keep at it! At least not the way you have been doing.

 Brass Nipples 22 Nov 2014
In reply to couldxbe:

No it's not strength I think. I am not that strong so had to focus on good precise technique , flexibility, and footwork. When you reach a plateau it is that your body, and perhaps your mind has become accustomed to the load you have placed upon it. Einstein said, insanity is to keep doing the same thing, and expecting a different outcome each time.

So you need to introduce some new elements to your climbing, that push you physically or mentally. Do not be so focused on strength, and maybe work on things you are good at, maybe flexibility and remaining balanced and smooth in your movements.
 douwe 23 Nov 2014
In reply to couldxbe:

Agree with introducing new elements in your climbing routine.
Try focusing on volume instead of the hardest you can climb for a while.
I progressed a lot after bouldering in a new gym with mainly overhanging walls. Couldn't climb as hard as I was used to, but just tried to climb a lot of different problems. Saw lots of improvements in technique after a while.
Also if you have reached V3/4 within a year after starting to boulder it is not a bad progress. I think it is natural for a person to plateau at some level.
 Ben07 23 Nov 2014
In reply to couldxbe:

Strength alone can only take you to a certain level. As soon as holds start getting smaller and less positive, you have to use good techniqueto use them. Guys are usually stronger so get by a little longer before seeing the progress slow down.
In problems that you can climb, try and climb it more efficiently, watch somebody who os really good, see how they do it differently. Copy this! Read sonebooks or watch tutorials. Self coached climber is good.
Oh and climb loads from Ben.
In reply to couldxbe:

To quote Ben Moon, 'Technique is no substitute for power'. Personally I've seen the biggest benefits from losing weight and regular sessions on a Beastmaker board in between climbing sessions. I've found the benefits for open handed and crimping holds to be a real revelation. Dave Macleod recommends just a single edge like a campus board rung is enough to train on, so you don't need to spend a fortune at home!
 douwe 23 Nov 2014
In reply to couldxbe:

I think around V4 there is plenty of room for progress through better technique.
I know a climbing gym which has bouldering V6 as a standard for starting campus / hangboard training. Sounds very reasonable to me.
Cheers Big Ears 23 Nov 2014
I've literally just come out of the same slump... Started this year, got hooked, improved every week. Then nothing changed for weeks. I got loads of advice, had a lesson, tried everything. Heres what sort of stuck/helped...

All advice given in good faith, cant vouch for the technicalities...
1. Do 800 moved a week : Any level. This took more effort than I thought it would. Means I significantly increased the volume of climbing, and as a direct result increased the variety of holds I was used to holding. Added benefit, because of the increase in volume of training, I lost some weight. Mentally quite tough though as its easy to want to skip a session. Also quite expensive if your not a member of a wall!
2. Get a lesson. I saw a guy at the Arch in london. £50 for 2 hours. Gave me some good insight into some minor technical bad habits, highlighted my preferred style. But also chilled me out totally. The kid doing the coaching asked about what level I was at, how long I'd climbed etc... I waited for his magical wisdom on climbing V12. "You just need to keep at it, things wont get any easier, just the holds will get smaller". Expensive, no instant improvement (except I can now rock-over like a champ), but sort of inspiring that im not doing anything stupid....
3. Go to different walls, Change is as good as a holiday, and having break from your regular haunts means you can better assess progress when you go back.
4. Have an easy week. Especially related to number 1... If you dont rest properly your body had no time to adapt to training. Boring but true...


 Cake 23 Nov 2014
In reply to Cheers Big Ears:

As someone who has been climbing for a lot longer,I think this is great advice. I've never paid for a lesson and I've probably never done 800 moves in a week. But I would certainly agree that there is no substitute for experience, to which so many moves will add and I have taken on loads of advice over the years, which a pro could have told me in a few hours.

I'm still improving and I only go climbing once a week. Bit I've definitely slowed down at times, despite trying hard. Keep at it
 Alun 23 Nov 2014
In reply to Cheers Big Ears:
> "You just need to keep at it, things wont get any easier, just the holds will get smaller"

This is the first time I heard this line, which is clearly a parody of the old cyclist's "it never gets easier, you just go faster" quote. The climbing version lacks the impact of the original, but I still like it.

edit: removed some pointless text
Post edited at 21:31
 Jon Stewart 23 Nov 2014
In reply to couldxbe:
It's very natural to plateau, or for your rate of progress to significantly slow down at this level. Keeping up the initial rate of progress isn't realistically going to happen - if it did, those of us who have been climbing for 10 or 20 years would be climbing V20 or something!

V3/4 is hard climbing! The kind of moves you get on really hard routes. First of all I'd accept the slowdown in progress, but keep working hard so it's not an actual plateau. There will still be some gains to be had from technique and I think volume is the way to achieve this, plus maybe some drills like 'silent feet' while you're warming up. Really though, I think technique is just a result of experience. So doing a huge volume of every type of problem will improve your technique, which combined with working hard, steep problems for strength will see you continuing to improve but more slowly than when you went from climbing like a beginner to climbing V3/4, which is the steepest bit of the curve.

A fingerboard will help you improve faster, but can be a bit of a shortcut at the expense of technique, turning you into a 7c crimper who can't climb a 6b arete, not a desirable way to be IMO. If you're really serious about getting better, do a huge volume of climbing *and* train on a fingerboard. That's one way that people get really good. The other, unfortunately, is physiological good luck and talent.
Post edited at 21:47
 SenzuBean 24 Nov 2014
In reply to couldxbe:

It seems a bit like scrying to try and solve this particular problem without any more details.
So with that said - how are you failing when you cannot complete these V4/V5s? Are you falling off the holds quickly, or staying on longer and burning out? Can you reach the next holds but are unable to move to them, or are you unable to make the move to reach them? Is it some kind of physical manoeveurs that are too strenuous (dynos, overhangs, heel hooks)? More details please - describe the crux moves that have you stumped

My guess is that it's many factors, but that you're correct when you suspect it is partly strength. It's probably worth focusing on developing your general body strength, but not just the forearms/triceps/biceps (which get plenty workout from bouldering), but the deltoids, pectorals, abdominals, lower back and thighs - which help to keep your body rigid and transfer power more effectively.

 Pewtle 28 Nov 2014
In reply to couldxbe:

It's at this v4 - 5 level where route reading comes into it's own. Are you falling off problems that you have no beta for, or are you watching someone else do it first and still failing? What really helped me at that level was going to indoor comps, and watching loads of different people with loads of different body types / strength levels work out problems before I tried them.

What type of problems are you struggling on? Is it the pumpy overhangs, tiny vertical crimps, or slabby balance-y problems that are the hardest?
OP xbraddersx 29 Nov 2014
In reply to couldxbe:
Hi everyone

Thanks for replying.

In terms of actual routes, it's more the body positions. I have a complete lack of flexibility in my hips, which holds me back slightly, especially on high leg moves. I also think the problem is I need to project them a little more. At the minute, I'm just getting frustrated about it and moving on to a different problem. I have one problem where I can do the crux move, but to get to the top, I need to 'pop' whereas my taller friends can simply reach. I'd say on average I'm getting 1/2 - 3/4 way through most of the routes, just lacking the technique/stamina/whatever to complete.

My preference is mixed overhang/vertical because oddly, I really enjoy dynamic moves. I'm not too good at static moves to very small holds. However, I'm definitely seeing progress in my ability on the V3/V4 problems (smoother, more precise movements) so I think just perseverance, and perhaps some pilates :P!
Post edited at 19:46
 SenzuBean 01 Dec 2014
In reply to couldxbe:

Check out a '5BX' (you will see the charts all over the internet), it's an old 5 minutes a day fitness program developed by the Canadian air force in the 50s - the first and third exercises done daily will get your hip and back flexibility up, and the rest will get your strength and stamina up. Totally free, and only 5ish minutes a day - so no excuses
 Kassius 01 Dec 2014
In reply to couldxbe:

Same things happened to me I can easily flash v3 v4 and most v5's but just plateaued around v6. To me it feels like it's down to technique and certain muscle groups like ham strings and shoulders. I've tried all sorts I've invested in some downturned shoes which has really helped on the ten pence width edges but have took a few weeks to get my feet used to them. I also invested in a weight vest and hit the underhanging routes to build up shoulder and back strength and then hit the gym to build power and strength. I do lock offs, dead lifts, hamstring curls, clean and jerk, snatch and core focused calestetics this has helped build my confidence in myself and strength
 galpinos 01 Dec 2014
In reply to Sempafi:

What do you do for finger strength? This is normally the limiting factor, not big muscle groups?
 galpinos 01 Dec 2014
In reply to couldxbe:

Why do you fail on the V4/5 problems?

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