UKC

Anyone any experience of dealing with estate workers/landowners trying to restrict use of CRoW land (Lakes in this case).

Several times been "advised" not to stray off the paths as there is shooting/traps set.

Advice on useful folks to take this up with. I have tried to make contact with the land owners to discuss the issues, but no response from them.

Thanks in advance.

In reply to Ghastly Rubberfeet:

National Park office? They presumably have an access officer

In reply to Wiley Coyote:

Doh!

that'd be a good starting point wouldn't it!

(It's been a long day)

cheers

;~))

In reply to Ghastly Rubberfeet:
The local access forum is the official channel I think: http://www.lakedistrict.gov.uk/caringfor/local_access_forum

Depending on where it is the BMC might be able to get involved too?

In reply to GPN:

Ta!

In reply to Ghastly Rubberfeet:

Haven't encountered this in the Lakes, but happens quite a lot in the NY Moors. We always report it to the BMC, and it always gets resolved that way.

In reply to Ghastly Rubberfeet:


Landowners are not a problem.
Your problem is bracken.
There is no right to roam full stop for that reason.
Large parts of the Lake District are now pretty much out of bounds for that and only that single reason, and no one is taking responsibility because the Lake District as any local will tell you is grossly mis-managed.
DC

In reply to Simon Caldwell:

If it's happening a lot, maybe the problem isn't being resolved. Sorry, that sounds a bit snitty - but is it the same landowners trying it on repeatedly, or does the NYM park need to get a lot more proactive with landowners generally? Once again, this sounds like a problem with grouse, rather than access

In reply to Dave Cumberland:






Thanks

In reply to toad:

No idea if it's the same people. I'd assume not or it would likely be escalated by now. When I say "quite a lot" I mean a handful of times since the CRoW act, not something on a weekly basis!

In reply to Dave Cumberland: Sorry, missing something here, how is bracken a problem with CRoW and making large areas of the Lake District out of bounds?

In reply to Dave Cumberland:

mis-managed by whom if not the land-owners?

In reply to Dave Cumberland:

not in the winter Dave

In reply to Michael Hood:

DC has a bit of a chip on his shoulder I think

In reply to Simon Caldwell:


You could not be further from the truth. My observations are purely factual. The bracken has subsided a bit now but it is still thick in places and a barrier to movement. For those who clearly do not understand, and for Michael Hood, during the year the excessive spread of bracken is stopping anyone moving around on large areas of open fell. So in relation to the original CROW comments, you may have a right to roam and freedom to go anywhere but in practice that is rapidly disappearing because so many crags and areas are impenetrable. Factual observation. The people who are supposed to manage this are responsible for this ecological disaster, i.e. NPA, NT, many other quangos. To Bull's Crack - Ownership and management are two different things in the Lake District.

So before you indulge in the usual infantile snide comments that UKC is so renown for - familiarise yourself with the facts.
DC

In reply to Dave Cumberland:

I spent a lot of time fighting my way through the bracken in the Lakes over the summer so I know that there was a lot of it. Probably partly due to the mild winter last year. In places it's over head height, including on some public footpaths. But nowhere did it prevent me accessing the land, at worst it slowed me down and temporarily challenged my will to live.

In reply to Dave Cumberland:

fair point but how should it be managed - pretty hardy plant

cheers
john

In reply to John Kelly:


http://www.snh.org.uk/publications/on-line/advisorynotes/24/24.htm

In reply to Dave Cumberland:






So what you were trying (and failing) to say is "The bracken does not affect your rights, however it does affect your ability to exercise those rights"

In reply to Dave Cumberland: Ah, you mean the bracken's a pain in the a**e; couldn't agree more, I did a quick nip up Helm Crag late one evening in July and ended up coming down the side into Easdale(?) through deep bracken as the light was failing (I thought the path was "lost" but in retrospect I probably should have gone a bit further along the ridge).

I remember thinking that although a pain, I knew I had the experience etc to know that I could get down through it and not be worried about the failing light, but I did wonder how somebody with little hill experience would react in the same situation - would probably be pretty worrying.

In reply to j0ntyg:
spot on that very interesting

I'm going to make a plea for bracken, just got back from east raven crag - the grass slopes are, as normal, bloody deadly whereas the decaying bracken gave a safe foothold

just saying

john

In reply to Michael Hood:

Some similar (more limited) issues in parts of the Peak - the stuff did seem particularly high this year (no evidence whatsoever to support that though)

In reply to John Kelly:

Its the sheep we need to get rid of so that the vegetation can recover. Its either cropped grass or inedible bracken.

In reply to Michael Hood:

My brother (a farmer in the South Lakes) is being paid to keep bracken in certain areas - there's a rare butterfly that relies on some flowers that themselves rely on bracken for protection and one of the few locations is on his farm.

I rode the Doethie Valley in mid-Wales this year and you could just fall to one side and get caught by the bracken - no chance of injury, though it did make following the track somewhat difficult! Some of the early racers at Grasmere sports would create beds of bracken beneath outcrops so that they had a soft landing!

Having said the above, bracken in general is not very beneficial. It smothers all other vegetation, is toxic to cattle in some circumstances and the pollen is carcinogenic also home to the bracken tick of course. Getting rid of it is hard work and either means chemicals (Asulox) or several years of cutting twice a year.

In reply to Dave Cumberland:

I totally agree, me old sport. Whilst were at it lets get rid of the rock too. It restricts my walking and running. And the dam tree clothed hillsides - too difficult to walk through and spoil the view. Oh, the bloody tarns are a total nuisance too for crow access. Think how much nicer they would be if replaced by.....??????errrr Bracken! Yes thats it!!

In reply to Ghastly Rubberfeet:

Rubberfeet,
To get this thread back on track. Do you want to say where this was? Even if you were not specific to an Estate it would be good to know which area. I have never had issues from 25 years in the Lakes.
Cheers

In reply to Lostsky:

I am currently trying to identify the actual owner of the land. So far all confrontations have been with estate staff.

Once I have exhausted that line of discussion I'll look at other options.

Though, from what a few people have said outside of this forum, it seems that the landowner is within his rights to carry out shooting without needing to inform anyone. They just need to make sure they don't shoot anyone.

Members of the public cannot interfere with the pursuit of lawful activities of the land owner and all that!

Does seem to make CRoW a bit pointless/toothless if that's the case.
(The ability to arbitarily revoke free access whenever they like, not the interfering bit)

In reply to Ghastly Rubberfeet:
We've just got back from a walk above the Duddon, mainly on CRoW land. One particular isolated parcel was accessible using a track that was separated from the road by about 20-30m of non-CRoW land. The gate was padlocked and barbed wire strung along the top. On the post was one of those crossed-out little brown man signs indicating non-access land. Short of a helicopter/parachute how are we supposed to get to it? These islands of access land crop up all over the place without a public right of way into them. I did email the LDNPA a few years ago regarding one above Crosthwaite but got no response. When the act came into force I was under the impression that access to these places was supposed to be provided. In the Forest of Bowland we were confronted recently by a gamekeeper who told us the land we were on had been de-classified and was no longer CRoW land - our map (the latest OS sheet) was also incorrect. I followed this up with the Bowland AONB service who informed me that this was not the case (surprise!). The reality is that a few landowners and/or their employees will try it on. You have to decide whether or not to stand up to them and insist on your legal right to be there or tuck your tail between your legs and slink away. Be firm but courteous, not confrontational. I am sure that landowners cannot 'arbitrarily' decide to 'de-CRoW' land - once the original classification was made that was it. We really do need a Scottish-style act - slinking around feeling guilty (even when you're legally in the right) just is not on.

In reply to Ghastly Rubberfeet:

..



If anyone, landowner, agent or any tom dick or harry, tries to stop you from exercising your right of access then they are breaking the law. They cannot legally "revoke free access whenver they like".

However, in England the judiciary & establishment are overwhelmingly on the side of the shooting fraternity, so yes - toothless is a fairly good word. The shooting fraternity contains many habitual criminals who escape prosecution(see any of many references across the web on Raptor persecution), and the niceties of CrOW mean nothing to them.