UKC

I'm looking for the opinions of parents/swimmers please.

My daughter is swimming at a high level. She is 12.
The club she has moved up to, swims minimum of 6 2hr sessions a week. The older ones more.
Yesterday they accumulated just short of 9k, 350 x 25m, with lots of 1/2 length underwater sets.
Now given that girls only race 800m, what is the rationale and evidence for this?
She is fit but still developing and was visibly shattered post last nights session.
Before I offer him my two penneth and size 11's, is this normal, and , safe?
Thanks

In reply to Skol:

Safety wise, apart from the obvious danger of drowning, swimming is about as good for a body as exercise can get, so I doubt this is dangerous to her development in the same way running or climbing might be.

In terms of the distance they are doing, its very common in a lot of sports to train at a lower intensity over longer distances to improve base fitness. Lots of cyclist use this method to gradually increase their average speeds by becoming more efficient.

At 12 though 6 2hr sessions a week does sound a bit much.

More importantly, is she enjoying it?

In reply to balmybaldwin:


I tend to agree. Some more developed 12 year olds do 14-16 hrs. The club and the feeder club do have a lot of injuries.
In the feeder club, 100-150 was the norm over 2 hrs.
My concerns are that the 350 lengths she did was at almost race pace, combined with underwater drills. When the body is depleted of 02, this could cause loss of consciousness?


Seems to be. We aren't forcing her

In reply to Skol:

Put simply, club swimming training sessions are long, exhausting, and at times, brutal. The general attitude is one of " suck it up or leave". Whether you (or your daughter) agree with it is a matter of choice.

JW

In reply to Skol:

350 lengths in two hours, at twelve years old. Are you sure that's right?

Martin

In reply to maisie:



Yup. 220 is routine. I can do 200 in 1.45, so at their level 350 in 2hrs is achievable.

In reply to Skol: club swimming is, as said, brutal with a high drop out rate. Thats that. 6 * 2 sounds a lot, but sadly i suspect it's not abnormal. It's all at 5 in the morning or something equally ghastly? It's never been on the list of options for my kids.

And yes, there are a lot of injuries too.

In reply to Skol:

I remember one of the girls in my class at school was a club swimmer, and she didn't start her periods til she was 16. I think her body was constantly training so hard that it had no energy to develop. I doubt it did her any harm in the long run, and it has to be better for a teenage body than sitting around playing an xbox and eating too much junk!
If she enjoys it, then I guess it's probably not an issue

In reply to Skol:

Blimey, that's some pace. They're essentially doing 20 minute splits for 1500m, six times in a row without rest (350 lengths is what, 8750m?). The national record for 12 year olds for a single 1500m race is 17 minutes and something. Just how high is your daughter competing?

Martin

In reply to wbo:

Yeah. She's been swimming competitively for 4 years, so is used to the 4.45 leg pull wake up.
6 days a week is a lot, but 350 lengths seems excessive. If she goes twice a day, she can do 500plus.
Saturdays have land training too.

No wonder
You should see her climb though. She goes once a year, and can do most overhanging indoor routes.

In reply to maisie:


That is correct. And high

You sound disbelieving? Do you want to swim with her?

In reply to Skol:
Hmm well you have my sympathy - I was involved in elite level athletics some years back and both the training load and drop out rate were eyewateringly high at junior level. Getting an Olympic champion leaves a lot of casualties.

In reply to wbo:


Yes. I don't quite believe, or , understand why they're doing so much , but apart from crying in her goggles, she seems up for it

In reply to Skol:

Health and physical development-wise, she'll be fine. Its not a sport that will have I'll effects. You can't get better for fitness.
The down side a are her study MIGHT suffer (not necessarily).
If she genuinely enjoys it and its not just peer pressure leave her to it, but it can really effect mentally as its hardcore "swimming comes first" mentality. Most drop out by mid to late teens as swimming and a social life don't work together

In reply to Scarab9:
Yes. We've witnessed the drop outs.
In my opinion, if she's keen to do it, then we will carry on taking her.
It's better to have the fitness, drop out for a bit , then continue at a later age, rather than have no concept of hardship and a fat arse

In reply to Skol: Swimming has plenty of scope for overuse injuries, but I'm thinking you're well aware of that.

In reply to Skol:


Where did that come from (and why would you add it half an hour later)? Clearly, your daughter's at a pretty elite level - my daughter is pretty handy in the pool, but it's a different magnitude of ability. Me, I don't swim - they get it from my wife.

In the past, I certainly put at least 12 hours a week into my sport, but not at that kind of intensity - and I've been involved in technique sports (gymnastics and judo when younger) where endless repetition, particularly when tired and being properly coached, was critical to small but significant improvements. There's a thread going at the moment about whether one can learn to draw, or whether it's innate. I think that it's a bit of both - but innate talent won't get you that far. Technique requires a lot of unconscious but finely controlled action - and repetition is what drills it in.

If you're not dragging her out of bed and the coaches have been at it a while, see where it goes. Just out of interest, how fast can she swim, say, 1500m? Or is she a sprinter?

Martin

In reply to maisie:

Yeah. Sorry. Sleep deprived paranoia
Repetition to the point of exhaustion may not teach good stroke action?

I've no idea of her time over 1500m and girls of her age only do 800 m anyway. Her 50m butterfly places her highly.
She is woken with the leg drag, but enjoys it

In reply to Skol:

Let her go for it then. She'll drop or be a pro, and either way she'll be happy and mega fit. Just don't let her feel pressured (which doesn't sound an issue right now)

In reply to Scarab9:


I agree. The cost is quite prohibitive though . She's certainly made me a proud, skint , tired dad so far.

In reply to Skol:


Yep, that's where the need for good coaching is critical. Think about your climbing when pumped - it's dreadful to behold, isn't it? But repetition of the movements in a controlled and supervised manner, concentrating on keeping extensions extended and body tension tense, that's what drives technique forwards in less tired states. The whole point of technique is that it represents the most efficient movement in the most effective manner.

If she's this good, they know what they're doing. I suspect it'll be boredom and distractions that entice her away, rather than injury.

Martin

In reply to maisie:


.
The clubs have always emphasised technique first, and speed comes later. He's a young coach and I just worry at some of his reasoning regarding sessions. Fairplay, he just missed the last Olympics and I did too

In reply to Skol:

I can't comment on the health side, but when I was 12 I was happier spending half an hour in the sea at Frinton in November that 15 minutes doing lanes at the local pool.

Open water - rivers, lakes and the sea - now that's where the real interest is. Two hours breathing chlorinated air in over heated water; not for me.

In reply to Skol:

My nephew used to be 'encouraged' to swim competitively all through his childhood. I wasn't sure how much he enjoyed it ... he's grown up now and I asked him about it recently, he just shook his head sadly and said 'what was all that about?...'