UKC

http://www.cordee.co.uk/Gogarth-South-det-0-0-0-9030.html

Blooming well hope so!

In reply to Frank the Husky:

I want it to be true but I'll believe it when I see it.

In reply to DubyaJamesDubya:

In the US in CA at the moment. There are world class areas here that have had no guidebooks for long periods (decade+) and some definitive updates are delayed close to a decade. Yet select guides to popular areas seem to be doing rather well, as does the online Mountain Project database. British climbers need to stop whining about comparatively short delays on likely over optimistic release date guesstimates and if they care that much about definitives buy more guidebooks and volunteer to help on similar projects.

In reply to Offwidth:

To be fair, I think FtH has plenty of credit in the bank when it comes to rolling his sleeves up on guidebook projects!

In reply to Dave Garnett:
Are you sure? what has he ever done on grit for instance??

Frank's post could be held as simple enthusiasm for a prospect of imminent release. You know what dogs are like in that respect :0

'I'll believe it when I see it' was the whining bit.

In reply to Offwidth:
I don't see how my comment could be seen as 'whining'.
I emailed Ground Up about this a few years back and was told it was 'imminent'.
In case you haven't noticed my enthusiasm for this release derives from wanting to buy it. The fact that they left it so long means that the Rockfax and Ground Up selectives have come out in the mean time, with excellent topo style descriptions, so many potential customers will be loathe to double up. I will buy it, so direct your comments at those who won't.
Wasn't the last definitive from 1990 so the phrase 'comparatively short delays' takes on a whole new dimension.

In reply to Offwidth:

I'm not really sure what relevance the U.S. has to this particular question. Whatever woes they may have about their guidebooks are their own. This particular guide, to a brilliant and popular crag, is many years overdue according to Ground Up's own estimates, so wondering where it is is hardly whining and getting excited about it is perfectly reasonable. I'm sure it will be ace when it finally arrives.

In reply to victim of mathematics:
Latest information from Ground Up is suggesting spring 2015. So the waiting is nearly over: Just in time for the season...

Edit: Just rechecked. My mistake, I misread, it was Spring 2014 they were talking about, so maybe it will be out in January as the description in the link suggests.

In reply to victim of mathematics and dub ya

I said above that the 'whining' accusation relates to the daft comment on the imminent release announcement by the distributer: "I'll believe it when I see it". You can complain about Ground Up (probably unfairly.... Gogarth is a massive job easily delayed) but what have Cordee done wrong that you don't trust them? Ground Up took over the project a good deal after 1990 so that date is irrelevant in their work (other than indicating its a difficult, long term and largely thankless task).

The relevance of the US is they have lots of trad guidebooks that are delayed much more and a much bigger dominance of select guides to popular venues.. Ie that it could be a lot worse.

In reply to Offwidth:

When a guide that hasn't been updated since 1990 is to be released in two parts (think Cornwall, Pembroke etc) you get the first part and wait for the second part which is due ‘early the following year’. Then you are told time and again that its arrival is 'imminent' and then no guide has materialised, then you are told it has been ‘put on hold’ while the company develops other guides. Things go quiet now but eventually they announce that it will be released spring 2014 but then it doesn’t arrive… again.
I would say, it is not 'whining' or 'a daft comment' to meet, with healthy scepticism, the appearance of a release date on a book seller’s web site (not the publisher you will note) rather than allowing hopes to rise needlessly for the umpteenth time (since the date must have been supplied to them by Ground Up).
I can only assume you've had some bad experiences yourself if you can colour my comment in the way you suggest.

In reply to Frank the Husky:

Nah, it's a typo - they meant 1st April 2015...

In reply to Frank the Husky:

The latest information from Cordee now shows a release date of July 2015.....

In reply to roger whetton:

Don't worry, Offwidth will be along shortly to apologise

In reply to Simon Caldwell:

Apologise because shit happens in a hugely complex process run mainly by volunteers?

I'm certainly not going to apologise about my opinion that internet whiners about guidebook delays are almost always unhelpful. The clear message to teams from that is avoid promising anything in public. Yet its probably best we at least know a little and the whiners get to be smug.... so feel free.

In reply to DubyaJamesDubya:

Not a good choice of argument.

CC Guides to West Cornwall were published in 1991/2 (less than a decade after the previous edition). A new guide in the double-volume format was published in 2001. A completely new guide in two volumes is now on my computer for typesetting. The volumes will be two or three months apart but both should published this year.

Likewise, Pembroke was published in the mid 80s; again a decade later in a large double-volume edition and subsequently updated by two supplements. Finally a new edition was published in five(!) volumes between 2011 and 2013.

All the above were/are genuinely 'definitive' guides, and these simply cannot be rushed out by omitting or skimping on areas that are not conveniently covered.

I am not saying we haven't slipped up on occasion (viz. Gogarth ten years ago). Huge undertakings like this relying heavily on volunteer work are bound sometimes to be sidetracked by events beyond our control.

In reply to Frank the Husky:

Sorry for the delay with Gogarth South. We had a tough year in 2014 so although we made good progress towards the finishing line we ran out of steam (read: money/free time) in the autumn. We are tantalisingly close now and have done quite a lot of work in the last month, I've even been working on it today.

I won't promise an exact release date as I'm sure it'll come back and bite me farther down the line, however I can assure any doubters out there that I am absolutely committed to getting this guide printed as soon as is humanly possible.

I've posted a brief note on the Ground Up site giving the same message: http://www.groundupclimbing.com/newsitem.asp?nsid=269

In reply to Simon Panton:

hey thanks for meeting us know that's great well done looking forward too it.

In reply to Simon Panton:

Thanks again for taking on this huge task and reporting useful progress without an unhelpful timetable.

In reply to Simon Panton: Excellent! I know what it's like with printing deadlines etc. It will arrive when it's ready, and it'll be great.

In reply to Simon Panton:

Hang on in there. Don't go crazy!

'...you know it ain't easy
you know how hard it can be'

Mick

In reply to Removed UserJohn Willson:

I think you misunderstood my original post which was praising the timely arrival of Cornwall and Pembroke guides.

In reply to Offwidth:



When you find some 'internet whiners' on this thread let me know.

In reply to Simon Panton:
Excellent stuff.
Great to hear it from the 'horses mouth' as it were.

In reply to DubyaJamesDubya:

I did and in your case we agree to differ. Its no big thing as your's was a borderline example in my view and it's the first time I've thought you did it on this site.

Hopefully we can agree the impressive work UK guidebook volunteers put in, the high quality of their output and that unpredictable factors can ruin publication deadlines (where the editorial team deserve no blame for a delay).

In reply to Offwid

Fair enough.

In reply to Removed UserJohn Willson:

I am not saying we haven't slipped up on occasion (viz. Gogarth ten years ago). Huge undertakings like this relying heavily on volunteer work are bound sometimes to be sidetracked by events beyond our control.

John, I made a huge issue of this at a CC AGM over 10 years ago and was shouted down by Ian Smith on the grounds that I was living in the past and Gogarth was not a popular crag anymore.

In reply to Al Evans:

Everyone made a huge issue of it at the time, but it's interesting to see that the firm that took it over has taken a further ten years to complete (almost) the project. What if…?

In reply to Removed UserJohn Willson:

Indeed!