UKC

Have I missed one.

Anyway, I'll start the prejudiced and ill-informed opinion with...

It should not be Lewis Hamilton.

He does not live here, he moved away to avoid tax. And it looks like he is wearing large diamond ear things.

In reply to lowersharpnose:

Rory Mc two of majors in a row.

In reply to goldmember:

I think that might do it. But golf is not a sport, it's a pastime.

In reply to lowersharpnose:

Yes, you've missed one http://www.ukclimbing.com/forums/t.php?t=603302

In reply to lowersharpnose:


This pastime, nonsense. Winds me up. A Sportsperson shouldn't be defined by how much one sweats.

Ronnie O'Sullivan and Phil 'the power' Taylor. Deserve the same plaudits that Brad Wiggins and Mo Farah get.

In reply to goldmember:



No they don't. Sorry, but the physical dedication is what defines a sportsman/woman.

Just my humble opinion, obviously.

In reply to goldmember:

No, they don't.

I watched Rory do it, and I was impressed, but...

In reply to lowersharpnose:


Explain?

Ronnie and Phil's physical dedication to perfecting their fine motor skills to such a high level is for me the same as Wiggins and Farah's development of their gross motor skills

In reply to lowersharpnose:

Enjoyed Linkers comment to Rory

In reply to lowersharpnose:

I've just seen a friend of mine on stage! She was a double gold winner at the Invictus games. Go Mickey!

In reply to goldmember:

I guess it comes down to your definition of sport. Ballet is closer to sport than snooker. Each to his own, but still.

In reply to lowersharpnose:

Ladies Rugby for the team, well done

In reply to goldmember:


Ha, ha, ha!

In reply to lowersharpnose:


indeed

In reply to The New NickB:

Don't get it ?

In reply to lowersharpnose:

Sir Chris Hoy... yay, now there's a sportsman!

In reply to lowersharpnose:


Deserved!

In reply to goldmember:

When I saw Peaty on the list I thought mountain biking was finally being recognised .....

Did manon carpenter get a mention ?

Jo paver was my pick, but always thought she be third

In reply to lowersharpnose:

Bollocks

In reply to Chris the Tall:

Third was good. She was the top sports person.

In reply to Chris the Tall:

Is that to the diamond wearing tax exile?

In reply to Chris the Tall:

No shocks sadly. Would UKC say Hamilton is a sportsman?

In reply to goldmember:


Would you say that driving my 1.4l VW Golf to work is a sport? If no, then there is your answer, if yes then you've obviously seen me driving through the New Forest

In reply to goldmember:

I like Lewis Hamilton. He's talented, hard-working, humble and generous in his praise of those who have helped him.

Driving a Formula 1 car requires amazing skill and fitness. Lewis Hamilton is a sportsman by any measure.

In reply to Tony the Blade:

should probably start a new thread about this, it'd be interesting to capture folks views

In reply to goldmember:

you expect a unified answer??

i think the tax-exile thing seems to be more held against him than the fact that he's 'just' driving a car

In reply to goldmember:

I struggle with this. It has skill, it certainly has risk. But it is so dependent on the car, that I think it is more of a technical team sport.

F1 is sooo much about image/advertising/bollox and not in any way a sport that can attract disparate participants. Diamond ear things.

Very few can do it, it is completely marketing driven, so no, not good.

In reply to Chris the Tall:


Yes in passing for the worlds in Norway, as did Gee Atherton. No mention of the context or drama of the races though.

Never got "F1" and find it surprising someone who won a one horse race got the gong.

On the bright side, Jonny looked much more relaxed than last time he was up there.

In reply to Malcolm Tucker's Sweary Aunt:



Driving a car a high speed is not something I want to see encouraged. When you look at chris hoy, Jo pavey, and rugby women you think "inspirational" In a good way. Not so with Hamilton

In reply to Chris the Tall:

Yup, both Manon and Gee Atherton both got a (very) brief mention in the "other sports" montage.....

In reply to goldmember:


You don't get that your comments about pub sports being equal athletics or cycling are laughable.

In reply to icarus3815:


Ellie Greenwood didn't, which was a shame. 100km world champion and first British winner of the Commrades.

In reply to The New NickB:


As is your dismissal of Ronnie and Phil, purely in terms of hours practised. I'd wage a large one that they'd very similar to non "pub" sports.

In reply to Chris the Tall:


Err... Are you serious?

Let's ban all forms of motorsport because it might involve going fast in a controlled environment. In fact let's ban horse racing as well, they go pretty quickly. And cyclists too, compared to pedestrians their speed makes them a menace. FFS, just because you don't enjoy something doesn't mean others don't and it shouldn't be encouraged/permitted. If you'd said 'driving dangerously is something not to be encouraged' then you'd have had a point.

In reply to lowersharpnose:

Great that Jo P got top 3. No surprise at all that she didn't win it given the popularity and profile of Golf and F1, but cracking that she beat a very famous and brilliant footballer.

In reply to goldmember:


No it has nothing to do with how hard they practice. The simple fact is they are not global sports and never will be.

In reply to JMGLondon:


Footballers generally don't do very well at SPOTY, generally they have to have done something spectacular in an England shirt (Moore, Gazza, Owen and Beckham), or in Giggs case been nominated in a very weak year.

Charlton, Best, Keegan, Dalglish, Lineker never won it.

In reply to The New NickB:

It has everything to with hours practised.

Snooker has a massive following in the far east. However I fail to see the point your making in your second sentence.

In reply to The New NickB:

Best deserved it, both for skill and his personality. Dam shame

In reply to goldmember:


Why? Not all sports are equal, however hard you practice.


It still isn't a global sport. Don't you think it is odd that 90% of Snooker World Champions come from the UK. Snooker is only reasonably high profile sport in the UK because it works well on TV, but basically there are a limited number of players, who are limited geographically. The same cannot be said about plenty other sports, particularly athletics.

In reply to goldmember:

It has everything to with hours practised.

But that is not all is it?

Otherwise topiary, chess & the Chelsea flower show winners.

I don't doubt the skill and hours put in by snooker players. But they are just playing a game like Grand Theft Auto.

In reply to lowersharpnose:

Quite-Hemmingway's definition of sport extended to only mountaineering, motor sports and bull fighting-everything else being mere games of one sort of another. Gets coat.

In reply to Tony the Blade:

Except that like dressage, its a bit elitist.

In reply to lowersharpnose:


At one point Lewis' Dad worked 4 jobs to support him in go-karting. He wasn't born into privelege.

In reply to Phil1919:

Elite sport is elitist???

In reply to Trevers:


Doesn't that just make his tax-dodging all the worse?

In reply to lowersharpnose:

Having zero interest in F1 its difficult to accept it as true sport, my impression has always been that the car is of more importance than the driver in determining who is dominant through a season. Money and technology dominate.
Didn't Hamilton say he had a team of 1200 people working for them? Rather takes teamwork to a new level and presumably not done with lottery funding! On the plus side he seems a nice guy, has worked hard and it is probably a drug free (performance enhancing) sport.

In reply to lowersharpnose:

I understand that Rory is also a tax exile ( his earnings are probably similar to Lewis, probably higher).

On the basis of rags to riches Lewis gets my vote everytime, especially for the dedication from his parents ( especially his dad, holding 4 jobs to pay for the habit).

In reply to DubyaJamesDubya:

Its a matter of degree I suppose where it becomes a bit weird, which is why I enjoyed seeing Jo Pavey get her third place. You don't meet many African track cyclists. He is racing against a very small number of other track cyclists, supported by wealthy countries giving out big grants. For that reason I would have enjoyed Rory McElroy getting it ahead of Lewis Hamilton.

In reply to Phil1919:

African golfers?

In reply to Oli:


Yes. I think the last person killed by a speeding racehorse was a suffragette. If you read the letters and comments in certain newspapers then you might believe that speeding cyclists are a terrible, life threatening menace, but the reality is somewhat different. On average 2000 people are killed on Britains roads p.a., and I'm sure a substantial number of those died because a motorist was going to fast.

BBC sports strapline at the moment is "Get inspired" - a great sentiment. We are a society getting more obese and more dependent on the car. So get inspired to go for a run, a swim, get on the bike or go for a kickaround in the park, swing a tennis racket or even, if you must, swing a golf club or go to a gym.

But inspire people to get in a car and go fast......

Not to mention paying tens of millions to a corrupt sleazeball to pay for the rights to show it.

In reply to lowersharpnose:


Not sure that precludes him from SPOTY - surely any sport where you travel most of the year means you don't live here.

I wouldn't have chosen him on the basis of personality - in that I don't like his public persona - but that's the problem with the general public and voting, they rarely seem to agree with me.

In reply to lowersharpnose:

I voted for Max Whitlock. Thought his achievements were fantastic

Did anyone else think that shoes in general were a bit weird? Lots of blokes seem to come on stage wearing a dapper suit and trainers at the bottom. Is this the new vogue?

And what was Emily Sharratt thinking of in flat pumps and an evening gown? Tsk.

In reply to Babika:

Have you missed the last twenty years?

But at least you aren't complaining about sports people being flash, that seems to be a cardinal sin on here.

In reply to Babika:

She was probably thinking "I've won the World Cup, I'll wear what I want".

In reply to Tony the Blade:

When Ronnie's on form, the speed at which he can play is mind blowing!

It's also pretty incredible that he can play just as well with either hand.

In reply to lowersharpnose:

Always find it funny how, in these threads, people seem to qualify their love of a particular sport by sneering at other sports!

In reply to JMGLondon:

I don't think that many people are sneering, it is just the exasperation that the definition of sport seems to be "what we can show on TV that looks vaguely competitive".

In reply to Chris the Tall:

Well, Motorsport is a major employer in the UK and it is something we can be rightly proud of exporting. I don't understand why you have a problem with it? Take a drive up the M40 and tick off all those employers.

You're building a total strawman if you are trying to conflate poor driving and road design with professional motorsport.

Is F1 a sport - well I would look at the drivers - there's a reason why Button is a triathlete and Schumy was a fairly handy climber and runner - it's because it requires a high degree of fitness and core strength. These are races which are won by 1000's of a second and to perform at that level requires massive amount of skill, endurance and balls. Take a look at a F1 car and then look at the driver - they are more like fast jet pilots. you can't compare the standard of driving and hard work it takes to pilot a 200mph F1 car to some nobber in a 318 tailgating you on the M1.


I suppose it all boils down to the 10,000 hours thing - it takes that much time to be exceptional, and as Arnold Palmer said - "the more I practice, the luckier I get".

To be honest, I should have expected this - there is something about SPOTY that draws a quite mean spirited and elitist ranting form certain quarters of UKC.

In reply to Nevis-the-cat:

I used to play football with a guy who worked for the Arrows team. He said the fitness of the drivers was incredible.

They had Jos Verstappen return to them mid-season (must have been around 2000 / 2001) and he was performing well in his first race, when he inexplicably started losing pace. Brundle was speculating that he had a hydraulics problem etc. I asked my mate when I saw him at football and he told me that Verstappen was simply knackered; he wasn't back to race fitness and couldn't push the car hard enough. That tells its own story.

In reply to Nevis-the-cat:

All that aside, there's no escaping the fact that F1 is just utterly shite.

In reply to Nevis-the-cat:

I thought it was Steve Davies who said "its amazing, the more I practise the luckier I get"?

In reply to Babika:

Gary Player said it originally.

In reply to mhart:

Arnold Palmer, Steve Davies, Gary Player.......any other sports folk like to claim this witticism?

In reply to Nevis-the-cat:

I think one could also argue that technology developed within Motorsport has probably saved quite a few folk on the road as well.

In reply to Nevis-the-cat:

Having said all that.......

My main issue with F1 is that I'm never sure if the best driver won, it's the combination of driver and car and that affects my opinion.

I voted for Jo Pavey, there was no doubt as she crossed the finish line whether it was her or the trainers that were worthy of the medal and I was swayed by the comeback nature of her "story".

I realised I'm a bit prejudiced against the younger athletes, I seemed to just think they'll achieve more in their career and get another chance so give it to Jo!

In reply to JMGLondon:


May have saved a few folk inside cars, but not those on the outside. Risk compensation means that the safer a motorist feels, the less care they will take.

Don't get me wrong, I'm a motorist, I own a car. I just think our addiction to them is dangerous and needs to be addressed. Lots of people are employed by the tobacco industry, doesn't mean smoking competitions would be a good idea.

In reply to Chris the Tall:
But that's not a reason to stop developing safer cars. Motorsport is also delivering more fuel efficient engines, which is useful for people like you who presumably need to use a car.

Nobody needs to smoke,but lots of people need to get around in vehicles.

edit: typo

In reply to DubyaJamesDubya:


Did you mean African or Black?

Ernie Els, Tiger Woods, Vijay Singh?

Martin

In reply to Chris the Tall:

I think a track day should be part of the driving test. That way people like the stupid little bitch who effectively parked her shitty little Vauxhall on my back bumper on the M6 yesterday might learn what happens when you stack it at 80 mph.

In reply to JMGLondon:


That just makes me think of the quote “Fighting for peace is like screwing for virginity”

In reply to Chris the Tall:

haha - George Carlin was great. 'Atheism is a non-prophet organisation'.

Anyway, I take your point, but at least fuel efficient engines and safer cars are somewhere toward a solution.

In reply to Martin Hore:

My response was to the suggestion that track cycling was elitist because 'you don't see many African track cyclists' (although in fact there are some road racers coming through) By African I'm pretty sure the original comment meant 'from Africa' and I doubt he had white South Africans in mind.
I was merely pointing out that if we are talking about poverty stricken Africans being rare in a sport as a benchmark for it's 'eletism-rating' then there are many sports (skiing?) that would qualify. Golf (and F1 for that matter) being among them

In reply to Martin Hore:




Vijay Singh is of African origin?

In reply to lowersharpnose:
I think Hamilton is a decent bloke with some personality but I was reluctant to see someone win who has been supported by 1200 others (to build their vehicle). I am more impressed by the likes of Pavey who achieved success with pretty much just the help of her husband/coach. ( I'm sure UK athletics provides nutritionists/ physios etc but it is much more of an individual effort)

In reply to Mike Highbury:


Well, we all are of African origin, aren't we, if you trace things back far enough?... That's why I'm frightened of lions, anyhow, despite not seeing many of them in the High Peak.

In reply to Clauso:


No way. I was cast from the silt of the River Jordan.

In reply to lowersharpnose:

Meh. Still think Guy Martin should have got it. Then again he does most of his work for Channel 4.

In reply to Troy Tempest:


As much as I enjoyed his shows, they amounted to a few record breaking stunts for the telly.

His main sporting passion is TT, but he is not good enough at that to be recognised in that regard.

In reply to Mike Highbury:


Indo-Fijian.

Of course there have been plenty Golfers, racing drivers, cyclists etc who would consider themselves African, it's just their parents or grandparents were probably English or Dutch.

In reply to Nevis-the-cat:

I properly despise golf, whereas I just find F1 dull, but it was clear that McIlroy was the best golfer in the world this year by some distance. Hamilton was one of probably a dozen drivers who could have won the world championship with the right car, he was one of only two drivers with the right car.

I'm an athletics fan, but the power of Pavey's story is just incredible, a national junior champion, 20 year senior career, in the shadow of Paula most of her career. Wins her first major international title at nearly 41 (a European Championships record by more than 3 years) 10 months after giving birth. I know she has inspired 10s of thousands of people. That is why she got my vote.

In reply to The New NickB:

When did a foreigner last win SPOTY?

In reply to timjones:

When did a foreigner last win SPOTY?

Cristiano Ronaldo won it this year.

In reply to timjones:
The main prize is UK only. There is an international prize, which Cristiano Ronaldo won this year.

In 1999 the did a sportsman of the century award, which was open to anyone. Ali won it, Pele was in the top 3.

They have awarded the lifetime achievement prize to at least one foreigner as well, Seve.

In reply to The New NickB:




If the main prize is UK only then surely it shouldn't be limited to "global" sports?

In reply to FactorXXX:



I thought Lewis Hamilton won?

In reply to The New NickB:

>As much as I enjoyed his shows, they amounted to a few record breaking stunts for the telly.

>His main sporting passion is TT, but he is not good enough at that to be recognised in that regard

True enough, but it looked like he did genuinely put a fair bit of effort into the various things he did. Plus, and most crucially, he appears to have an actual measurable and engaging personality.

In reply to timjones:

I thought Lewis Hamilton won?

As stated above and which I assume you must have read because you replied to it, there is more than one category.

In reply to timjones:


It isn't limited to "global" sports, but it is supposed to be for the best sporting performance by a UK sports person, generally when considering these things it is best to consider people who compete in very competitive sports with global reach.

In reply to Removed UserBwox:

The personality bit in the title of the award is just old fashioned language. It is for sporting achievement.

In reply to The New NickB:


I'd fairly strongly disagree with that. If it's about performance it's quite possible to perform better in a UK only sport than other people are achieving in sports with global reach.

In reply to FactorXXX:



Oh come on, it wasn't the worst joke.

In reply to timjones:


It's possible, which is why pretty much all sports are eligible, but how do you measure performance?

Could you give some examples.

In reply to Clauso:


Well I know that Vijay Singh is Fijian/Indian but on the crudest scale of "White" vs "Black", fortunately now much less commonly used, he would probably be classed as "Black". I was just commenting on DubyaJamesDubya's assertion that you don't see many African golfers, by which he must have meant Black golfers from Africa as there are a number of world class golfers born in (South) Africa and at least one (Woods) of (partly) Black African descent. He came back and clarified that he was referring to economic opportunity, not racial or geographical background, which I'm sure is true.

In reply to The New NickB:



It's not that complicated. If the criteria is beast in the UK then it is possible to gauge performance in any sport that has a UK championship.

In reply to timjones:

No you don't understand. Best British sportsperson of all the sports people who are already best in the UK.

Sometimes the World Champion or Olympic Champion is British, but isn't British Champion. Which is the greater achievement generally.

In reply to The New NickB:


'Supposed' is the operative word. What it really boils down to is the profile of the sport which depends on TV coverage. Skeleton really isn't a mainstream sport which, because it was on TV, even got a nominee. By contrast we do pretty well at squash on a global basis but you wouldn't guess it from the SPOTY coverage.

In reply to GrahamD:

Skeleton is an Olympic sport, squash isn't. It also represented our only Olympic Gold this year. That is what made the difference. Actually I saw loads of squash on the TV this year, much more than the skeleton.

The reasons for different profiles of sport is a bit more complicated than TV coverage.

In reply to The New NickB:


What leads you to the assumption that I don't understand


Best in the country but not British champion?

Do our best sportspeople always get to compete at a world level?

>Which is the greater achievement generally.

That depends on the quality of the opponents on the day, it really doesn't matter where the opponents come from.

When trying to pick the best sportsperson out of many different sports it will always be subjective. Saying that they should compete in a global sport or that the person should compete internationally isn't necessarily going to make it easier to find a clear winner.

In reply to timjones:


The text you have typed clearly demonstrates that you have not understood.


Maybe they were injured, maybe they were competing in a more high profile competition, maybe it is a sport where you progress from national level to global level competition and don't do both at the same stage in your career.


Depends if they are good enough.



Sometimes we are lucky as a nation, the competition comes from the home nation (Coe & Ovett or Brownlee & Brownlee), but usually there will be stronger competition abroad. Mo Farah beating Kenyans and Ethiopians is a much bigger deal than him beating Chris Thompson (great athlete that Thompson is).


Of course it is subjective, it is a public vote and will be based on a whole raft of prejudices, but it is about being much more than the best in Britain. Every one of the nominees on Sunday was world class, not just the best in Britain.

In reply to The New NickB:



Yes I know. I wasn't being serious.

Mind you it would have broken up the usual media-trained tedium during the interview!

In reply to The New NickB:


True, that is what makes the difference, but only because the winter olympics were on TV

Nothing to do with the level of mass participation in the sport (how many skeleton riders are there in the world ?) - what it actually takes to get to the top of that sport. OK squash this year may not be the best example because we currently don't have the world number one and world champion but it was only a couple of years ago we did have.


But not on SPOTY


Not just TV, media in general. I'ts not even as though eg squash is a minority participation sport in the UK especially when compared to tennis.

In reply to GrahamD:

Squash has a problem, it is neither an Olympic sport or a global sport. Commonwealth Games had all the worlds best players. If it became Olympic (it should, but the IOC disagree) it would become more global.

Tennis is popular because it is better to watch, but more importantly it is global and is heavily marketed.

Olympic Golds mean a lot to the public, even in sports they would never try.

In reply to The New NickB:

Apart from the fact that the best squash player is currently Egyptian of course