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increasing strength for women - what are the minimums?

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 flopsicle 15 Dec 2014
I really struggle with exercise as exercise as opposed to playing where exercise is more of a side effect! I'd love advice from anyone experience with women (40+ too) getting stronger on a tight time budget. If I have a significant chunk of time I climb so everything else just fills in mini gaps.

I am putting some effort in my week usually consists of:
3 x 2 mile hill runs
3 -4 miles on a rowing machine (about 15 - 20 mins)
35 - 40 sit ups
Assorted quantity of pull ups on a basic pull up bar - I can do a max of 10 at one time.
Just started to try and do push ups using the bath edge or kneeling.
X 3 sessions at the wall from 1 - 4 hrs although sometimes I do spend a good chunk of that just nattering! If I go to the wall I make sure I get pumped at least once per session, obviously often more.

The sit ups I usually combine with the rowing as a session together with a circuit of pull ups, dead hangs and lifting my knees up, soft push ups (using bath).

Pull ups I try to just do randomly whenever but my motivation/amount fluctuates shedloads.

How many pull ups per day/week would I need to do to actually increase my strength? I've been advised 20 mins but I cannot do pull ups for 20 mins! I'd die and my arms would fall off!

If I rammed it so that I could see an improvement just how much would I need to be doing to get a fast return?

Some visible improvement would help lots to motivate me because that's the only reason to do it.

Thanks in advance....
 Lurking Dave 15 Dec 2014
In reply to flopsicle:

Poor effort 1/10
OP flopsicle 15 Dec 2014
In reply to Lurking Dave:

Cryptic response - 10/10
Usefulness - 0/10
 girlymonkey 15 Dec 2014
In reply to flopsicle:
I go to trapeze classes, static trapeze rather than flying, and that is doing amazing things for my strength and flexibility. And its great fun. You could see if there is something like that near you?
Just think what being able to do this would do for your climbing!! (I'm not this good yet, but improving!)
youtube.com/watch?v=VDby1Rv_C8w&
Post edited at 10:45
 iccle_bully 15 Dec 2014
In reply to flopsicle:

Wow you are doing loads! If you want to improve pure pull up strength at weight. If you want to improve climbing strength a more varied strength based training program/setbof exercises will be better. Look for your weaknesses (ie finger strength/core stability) and find exercises that work those (sit ups would only be a very small part of a core routine as they only work one area of the an muscles).

For strength you need to increase weight/ intensity (like doing hill spints for running) for general toning you increase reps.

Hope that helps.

 Lurking Dave 15 Dec 2014
In reply to flopsicle:

Sorry hon, 1/10 is the rating for your poor effort of trolling. If you gave a **** about what you were doing you would have read one of the many articles on this fine site.

LD
1
 RockSteady 15 Dec 2014
In reply to flopsicle:

What are you trying to get stronger for? Climbing?

If so my advice would be to make your climbing sessions way more focused and treat them as exercise as much as play.

Why not pick boulder problems you have no hope of completing and spend a bunch of tries just trying to do a couple of moves. Or repeat steep boulder problems at your flash limit 5x in a row with 2 mins rest between each go.

Do leg raises hanging from the chin up bar instead of sit ups. Do 5-10 reps for a strength exercise instead of 40 reps for endurance.

Do pull ups after your bouldering session. Doing more reps won't make you 'stronger'. Doing less reps with added weights will. Will this strength translate to climbing? Only a bit.


OP flopsicle 15 Dec 2014
In reply to girlymonkey:

I would like to try that and it looks like someone does lessons near here so I'll chase it up. I'm not very graceful and looking at the vid I kept imagining my version - Yikes! I don't know if it's something I'd do long term but would be fun to try and see.
OP flopsicle 15 Dec 2014
In reply to RockSteady:

I can't do a single pull up from hanging, 10 max from a standing start, until that's improved would there still be any point adding weight?

I try to do a lot of exercises both for technique and strength during a climbing session. Sometimes I just do laps on the auto belay, sometimes slo mo climbing, silent feet, silent belay (weird game invented by one of the instructors but very strenuous and good fun). I do the monthly comp problems and spend a fair bit of time on problems I can't get.

Re whether it's for the climbing - a bit. I spend a good chunk of climbing time on technique, read stuff on here, I have a copy of Self Coached Climber and have had some lessons to correct stuff I've misunderstood - it feels like strength does hold me back a bit, maybe it just feels like that at 43! Also - I think it's confidence too. I know it may be fallacious that my lack of push up ability is why my mantling stinks but if I was more confident in my strength I think it'd help support the confidence mantling. I don't really know but there are slots of time I can't get climbing in - I ran the block (good hill) this am, 8 mins, did pull ups, bath push ups and was showered ready for work in less than 25 mins. Thinking that might help my climbing helps to get me going. Nowt's for nowt, I know that but still struggle to really go for it.
OP flopsicle 15 Dec 2014
In reply to Lurking Dave:

> Sorry hon, 1/10 is the rating for your poor effort of trolling. If you gave a **** about what you were doing you would have read one of the many articles on this fine site.

> LD

Urghh! Patronising self appointed 'Troll Finder General'. Unpleasant and no doubt proud of it.
 hms 15 Dec 2014
In reply to flopsicle:

Pull-ups aren't actually all that relevent to climbing, plus they're a great way to trash your elbows. (there was a long and very convincing article on this a couple of months ago) I'd consider getting a TRX (well, one of the cheap & cheerful knock-off copies for about £30 off Amazon) and doing the upper & core exercises. For me that can fit in in the evening, around cooking, helping with homework etc. Ditto a fingerboard (use with care).

Technique is great and will get you a really long way, but there is definitly a point where just grunt power becomes the limiting factor. The solution people keep putting to me is to do more bouldering. I keep trying not to hear, as I'm not a natural or happy boulderer, but regretfully I think they're right.

Being 43 is no limit. I am female and considerably older than that, and I'm climbing hard & still improving.

And at the risk of sounding horrid - I'd try not to waste time at the wall chatting - if wall time is limited then try to use it effectively!
OP flopsicle 15 Dec 2014
In reply to hms:

I think someone else was talking about the TRX when I asked the same question - I've just googled it and it sounds similar to what she was describing.

Not chatting at the wall is a very reasonable suggestion. There's a few people that are just so lovely I can't see me passing up a brew and natter but I think between times I could do a bit better at keeping my head on the job rather than passing the time of day - as you do.

I think bouldering is a godsend and with no belay breaks can make for some very condensed climbing time. I boulder more than roped climb through circumstance so I hope it does help. It's also good to hear that you're older, climbing hard and improving. I have no clue what sort of age the down turn is inevitable but I want a decade getting better if I can squeeze it - I only started at 41 so it's not like it's a high baseline to build on!
 hms 15 Dec 2014
In reply to flopsicle:

I started at age 40, I'm now a whisker off 48, and I'm pushing 7b+ outside with every hope of breaking 7c next year. Not planning on any downturn for some time yet!!
 girlymonkey 15 Dec 2014
In reply to flopsicle:

I'm not very graceful either, but I have a good giggle trying anyway! I've been doing it for over a year now, and I still hurt for a couple of days after every session! Good fun way of strength building
OP flopsicle 15 Dec 2014
In reply to hms:

My 2015 goal is at least one roped 6a indoors - bit lame by comparison, best tug on for the next 5 yrs eh? After your last post I had a look at your other posts and saw you use the fit club here. I was a bit daunted by it when I first looked but I think I might start sticking logs up, it'll help me keep a tally and might make me more aware of what I could be doing. What you've done is what I want - to keep getting better and it's priceless to hear from someone that's been there and done it, especially as you also started later on like myself.

Apart from finger arthritis I think I'm very lucky and have no injuries, quite slender and still in fair nick. I have no doubt I'm younger in real terms than many other mums of 6yr olds I see at the school gates.

Girl Monkey - yep, if I can have a go I suspect it will be YBF'ed worthy. It might even be funnier than me trying to dance!
1
Andy Gamisou 15 Dec 2014
In reply to flopsicle:

In terms of ages, my wife and I have been climbing since our late twenties, but only tried pushing ourselves physically in the last few years (we are both in our early 50's now). In the last 4 or 5 years we've both gone from around 5c to 7a and continue to improve. If you really want to get better then I can't recommend enough a few sessions with a coach. A top name (Gresham, Mcclure, Schirrmacher, Machaffie, Macleod etc.) are all surprisingly affordable.
 philipivan 15 Dec 2014
In reply to flopsicle:

I'm not sure from your post if you are trying to climb French 6a or a climb with English 6a moves. I'm guessing the former although Nottingham wall can be confusing in this respect. If so you can get a huge way forwards by improving your tactics and reducing fear of falling and improving technique. You need to become adept at resting on a climb (even on overhanging ground) and think about where/when to clip and be prepared to fall off.

Also if you do want to do some roped climbs but also like bouldering maybe split your sessions and have some to get as much mileage in as possible on rope and some to gain strength - mainly bouldering.

Hope that helps. It sounds like you are plenty "fit" enough already and just need to do more focussed climbing training. Try harder stuff and eventually it will become possible/the norm.
 hamsforlegs 15 Dec 2014
In reply to Willi Crater:

Loads of good advice here, particularly when it comes to bouldering hard and getting some coaching.

Focused sessions of hard bouldering are going to help a lot - apart from getting stronger I've always found that a few weeks of really hard bouldering also trains your brain. This is a technique issue, but different from the 'quiet feet' kind of stuff; it's do with the ability to balance aggression with control and to exert maximum effort on specific moves. There are lots of things about pulling hard with your feet and initiating movement from the hips that I found hard to learn without consciously bouldering as hard as possible. The 'chat less, pull harder' approach sounds simple but takes a lot of effort and can bring big gains.

It's hard to judge without knowing your general sporting/training history, but lots of people would benefit from swapping their aerobic exercise for some strength work. Consider getting something like a kettlebell and doing some squats, swings and presses instead of your morning run. Even spending the time stretching in front of an inspiring climbing movie might end up being of more benefit? For both sexes, but women in particular, loss of muscle mass is a real problem once you get past 25 or 30 - a bit of resistance work might help.

As Rocksteady mentioned, if you're doing 40+ reps or several minutes of something it's too easy. You should be aiming for hard moves and tough exercises were you need lots of rest between goes.

Good luck!
 eltankos 15 Dec 2014
In reply to flopsicle:

Can't comment on much, but purely for pull ups I found the Armstong pull up programme quite useful (readily available on google). It takes about 10 minutes a day (5 days a week) and it varies it up from just doing max pull ups.
 John2 15 Dec 2014
In reply to flopsicle:

You can do 3 miles on a rowing machine in 15 minutes? The British indoor record (held by James Cracknell) for 5000 metres is 15 minutes 9 seconds. http://www.concept2.co.uk/indoor-rowers/racing/records/british?event=5000&a...
 1poundSOCKS 15 Dec 2014
In reply to hms:

> Pull-ups aren't actually all that relevent to climbing

I've been doing some pull ups recently (very slow ones, recommended by a coach) and they were very effective at improving my lock off strength.
OP flopsicle 15 Dec 2014
In reply to John2:

My machine has a tot up for distance - I wouldn't have a flippin' clue how accurate it is but that's what it says (just double checked as the thingy remembers the last session). Just to clarify I am most certainly not an olympic rower on the quiet!
 John2 15 Dec 2014
In reply to flopsicle:

Well you must be using a different machine from James Cracknell!
OP flopsicle 15 Dec 2014
In reply to hamsforlegs:

I think the hard moves and tough exercises is something I completely don't understand. Pull ups are that for me, i go a funny colour getting 10 in a row but because I don't manage many I don't see how the smaller amount of time can make any real difference. I'm not saying I think it doesn't it's just that the bit I don't get at all.

I run to keep weight off as I love my grub and couldn't diet to save my life. I realise that it doesn't burn that many calories but it seems to do something that stops my belly growing and keeps me with a more active mentality. I don't like it but I like what it does. I don't mind running hills but LOATHE running on the flat - truly hate it.

Re past history; Between 16 and 23 I worked in a very physical job about 60 hrs a week and I stayed doing the job P/T for about 12 hrs a week till about 8 yrs ago. When I stopped it slowly dawned on me that I might actually need to do something to stay in shape. I had a kid, generally life stuff but didn't really get stuck into anything till I took my daughter climbing and was offered a go - the rest is history! For most of that I smoked 15-20 day until I was pregnant so not exactly fitness conscious, just did very physical work for long hours.

So I have 0 gym history, 0 exercise regime history but was once a bloody strong lass.

In reply to John2:

It's one of these:
http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41F3v9C5wmL._SX300_.jpg

But mine has bike handles and a babies belt for a foot strap! Bought it for £15 about 8 yrs ago so it's allowed to be a little confused. Best fitness purchase I ever made.
 marsbar 15 Dec 2014
In reply to flopsicle:

Pilates is great for core strength without being very time consuming. It helps keep the tummy flat and makes you strong.
 slab_happy 16 Dec 2014
In reply to flopsicle:

*waves* Hi, I'm female and 40, though not + yet ....

Okay, so generally when people refer to being able to do a pull-up, they mean "from hanging" -- depending on where your pull-up bar is, if you do it from standing you may already be almost halfway up, so you're losing part of the range of motion and not strengthening the muscles that initiate the movement at the bottom of the pull.

Generally, I think it's true that past a certain baseline, how many pull-ups you can do has minimal correlation to your climbing ability -- but I suspect the people who say that there's no correlation between pull-ups and climbing at all are often the people who are way above that baseline.

If you've got the energy and motivation for extra strength training, I think it could definitely be worth working to get to the point where you can do one or more full pull-ups from a deadhang, at least.

Being female and older can unfortunately make it tougher to build upper body strength than if you're male and/or in your twenties. That doesn't have to be a limit -- it means putting in a bit of extra work to boost your strength will potentially have a big pay-off.

The generally recommended strategies for getting to your first pull-up involve "negatives" (starting at the top position of a pull-up, then lowering down to a hang as slowly as you can), and/or assisted pull-ups (where you use something, whether it's a giant stretchy band or your feet on a chair, to take enough of your weight off so you can do a pull-up from a hang).

You can also do inverted rows, if you've got a sturdy table edge you can hang under: youtube.com/watch?v=OYUxXMGVuuU&

You'd want to be doing these two or three times a week to see progress.

In terms of your actual climbing -- it can help to have a consistent strategy for your sessions. You don't have to be rigid about it, but going with the "9 out of 10 Climbers" strategy of deliberately working on your weaknesses can help hugely.

So if you tend to struggle on powerful overhanging boulder problems, then you could decide that you're going to make yourself spend half an hour out of each session working on powerful overhanging problems, for the next month (then evaluate at the end of the month). That still leaves plenty of time for nattering and playing. *g*
OP flopsicle 16 Dec 2014
In reply to slab_happy:

Yep - I could do with doing more of stuff I suck at! Good reminder! I agree re pull ups as well, I think what helps is often seen outside of individual baselines and within the parameters of someone's skill. I remember sticking with old stretched and scaley soled rock shoes for ages because I was told foot work wasn't in the footwear - very true for rock gods, but when I did get new shoes my confidence in my feet sky rocketed, it took weeks to relearn I could use my feet on tidgey stuff!

I've bought a pilates DVD, it was cheap and well reviewed so I figured may as well as not. I'm going to follow up suspension training but need to know more about if first - especially if I can fit it on my dodgey doors and plasterwork. I'm going to pay more attention to stuff I struggle with, practice steep stuff and slab mantles.

I still don't really understand the strength stuff but will try to work towards things I can't do forty of and might add a hanging pull up to goals for 2015 - just 'cos!

I'm also going to start posting on the fit club here to help motivate the bits I don't naturally enjoy that much.

Thanks for all the great advice!!
 hamsforlegs 17 Dec 2014
In reply to flopsicle:

> So I have 0 gym history, 0 exercise regime history but was once a bloody strong lass.

Yep, if you can do 10 pullups you are in rare air for women!

I think the 'do less for more gains' thing is actually part of the training; learning to dig very very deep on individual moves.

For instance, with the pullups, try doing them with immaculate form, active shoulders and a very high 'sternum to bar' position at the top.
You might only manage 2-3 at first, but a couple of sets per session with plenty of rest and you will find your overall strength going up.

Running is good for the soul and does help with weight management - stick with it if you want, but don't expect it to be doing too much for your climbing. Swinging a kettlebell or maybe pressing a bar overhead will also get you breathing hard and will build your overall strength. If you do continue with the running, keep it varied, include some offoad, jump over/onto a few benches en route, and throw in some hillsprints, squats and crawling in the park.
OP flopsicle 17 Dec 2014
In reply to hamsforlegs:

The 10 pull ups is from standing not hanging. I can't get 1 from hanging! It's a start and I am working on getting hanging ones. I'm sadly not in rare air....

 slab_happy 17 Dec 2014
In reply to flopsicle:

> Yep - I could do with doing more of stuff I suck at! Good reminder!

I say this because I know how hard it is to remember and make yourself do it. *g* Spending half an hour each session on steep stuff is something I should be doing ...

> I've bought a pilates DVD, it was cheap and well reviewed so I figured may as well as not.

I've heard good stuff about Pilates from various people I know -- it's supposed to be great for core strength.

> I still don't really understand the strength stuff but will try to work towards things I can't do forty of

Basically, it's about rep range. Very roughly, if you can do 20 of something in a row, it means it's sufficiently low-intensity for you that it's not going to be increasing muscle strength, just muscle endurance.

(Which in some cases may be what you want -- it depends on the muscle and the goal. For example, with the tiny muscles in the rotator cuff, they don't need to be able to make one-off super-strong efforts, but they do need to keep on working for long periods of time stabilizing your shoulder joint. So 20-30 reps might be a fine range for a rotator cuff exercise.)

If you can only do 5 or 6 in a set something before you collapse and need a lie down, that's going to be working pure strength.

Between those extremes, you get some strength improvement and some muscle hypertrophy (building muscle mass), and people will argue about which exact rep ranges do what.

But that's why people will say that if you can do 10 of an exercise in a row, and your goal is building strength, then it can be more valuable to make the exercise harder and do fewer than to try to add more reps.

> and might add a hanging pull up to goals for 2015 - just 'cos!

"Because it's cool" is a good enough reason. *g*

There are some good strength training sites aimed specifically at women (in a non-cheesy way -- the opposite of the "lift tiny pastel weights or you'll bulk up" stuff) which you might find useful:

http://www.stumptuous.com/
http://gubernatrix.co.uk/
 stp 18 Dec 2014
In reply to flopsicle:

> My 2015 goal is at least one roped 6a indoors -

At your level I think the best training you can do is simply climbing. If you don't like other kinds of training sack them off. Climbing is much more fun anway. Try to go 3 times a week (or more). Consistency is key.

Pick a route you like the look of and try it. Get up it with hangs then go back and keep trying it until you do it in one go. Then try another one. An another and so on. Try steeper routes too. At first these can seem pretty hard but if you keep going back to them you'll gradually get stronger at that type of climbing. After a while you should get an idea of your specific weaknesses. Ask yourself why you didn't get up a particular route. You can then work more specifically on those.

OP flopsicle 18 Dec 2014
In reply to stp:
I generally do climb 3 times a week and am aware that is the most important element. As I mentioned earlier, it is part psychological, to feel I'm getting stronger has milage in terms of self belief and I'm not beyond a magic feather or two!

I suppose it might be worth saying that Notts is UK tech and I have never heard anyone call it soft, although there are plenty who slate it for being soul destroying. I like it that way because I'd far rather pay a visit elsewhere and have my grade shoot up than the other way around. My grade shot up paying a visit to a different centre but that's not the point, that's why I want a roped climb at Notts 6a, not just find a gentler venue.

I'm around 5b at the minute, 5a consistent and I know how terrible that sounds here, I've been amazed at beginners saying they can hoof it up 6b on wk 3 - just don't see that at Notts, 1 yr in maybe for fit men, years in for most. I don't know where I am in the greater scheme of things, I don't know if the really good climbers are just being nice!

One other thing is being an older female - I have to work for what just was 10 yrs ago. I didn't look at your profile and if you're in the same boat fair play, but I think yrs ago I'd have said don't sweat doing boring stuff but I think differently now - I either work for it or won't get it.
Post edited at 21:33
 1poundSOCKS 18 Dec 2014
In reply to flopsicle:

> I suppose it might be worth saying that Notts is UK tech

UK tech for routes? And that's all they give you?
OP flopsicle 18 Dec 2014
In reply to 1poundSOCKS:

They've started to do occasional routes in Font 'F6a' as opposed to just 6a. Most of it is British tech though. The bouldering is colour coded with a range hence my goal being roped based. Clearly I'm always going to get soft ones first but I'm at soft 5cs as rare exception now so if I get a 6a it'll still mean something to me.

I may have climbed 6a bouldering as I get some of the 5cs - 6as each set but I conclude until I do the entire set (never going to happen as can't get more than 5a upside down on overhangs!) I can't say I've done a 6a there.

I know grades are a bit naff full stop but I like to have a goal that is measurable by someone other than just myself.

 1poundSOCKS 18 Dec 2014
In reply to flopsicle:

> They've started to do occasional routes in Font 'F6a'

Isn't that French 6a rather than Font 6a? Tech is strange for routes, it only gives you the hardest move!
OP flopsicle 18 Dec 2014
In reply to 1poundSOCKS:

DOh!! I hadn't realised Font and French was different! I've just looked at a conversion chart and knowing the climbs would bet it is Font but if you're interested I'll check tomorrow. Put it this way, I thought I'd climbed a strangely soft 6a prior to noticing the arrival of occasional random 'f's!

Let's be fair I have climbed in 3 centres ever, the others were V grades and I was getting a fair few V4 +, not consistent though, also struggling up some at lower grades.

I struggle on finger holds on steep overhangs without jugs but I'm wary to train for finger strength because I have arthritis in my fingers - want to save them for a rainy day! I also lack 'jump' - I back off it so dynos don't happen.

My mantling honks and that is probably a top goal non grade related, that and improving an open handed style as I still crimp where it makes no sense to out of the feeling of extra security.

Footwise I climb on features for feet lots and also want to learn more about making decisions where to put my foot but have exercises like coins on footholds, silent feet and trying to make decisions more conscious.

It's not all about grades just that I also want to see them go up.
 1poundSOCKS 18 Dec 2014
In reply to flopsicle:

> if you're interested I'll check tomorrow

Might be worth checking for your own peace of mind.

It does seem strange to gives routes just a tech grade or a boulder grade even. Unless the routes are very short maybe. But even then, routes tend to get route grades, and if it's bolted that would be a French sport grade.
 hazeysunshine 18 Dec 2014
In reply to 1poundSOCKS:

Notts has always used UK trad tech grades for its routes. Recently they have started to also give the equivalent sport grade.
OP flopsicle 18 Dec 2014
In reply to 1poundSOCKS:

I'm happy to check re whether the fs are font or french but I know that the majority are UK tech, I don't need to check that. The bouldering is colour coded over a range the routes are given their own grade. I know it's based on the hardest move but the climbs tend to be quite consistent on the ropes, the bouldering I notice more of 'crux' that stands out, although, again, it's rarely wildly off from floor up. Notts does get a lot of stick for it's grading and being harsh but I like it, I'd rather face up to it there than spend most of my time thinking I can do x y or z but it be just because it's soft.

The V grades aren't used at Notts at all.
 1poundSOCKS 18 Dec 2014
In reply to hazeysunshine:

> Notts has always used UK trad tech grades for its routes

I wonder why.
 1poundSOCKS 18 Dec 2014
In reply to flopsicle:

> but the climbs tend to be quite consistent on the ropes

If 6a means every move is about 6a, that would be hard, even if the route was only 10 metres long.
 hazeysunshine 18 Dec 2014
In reply to 1poundSOCKS:

Old school. I always thought that was normal.
 Heike 18 Dec 2014
In reply to flopsicle:

Hello,
I think your best thing to do would be just climbing (more). (Maybe trying harder things, too, even if failing?) And doing some core exercises. Pilates, etc. works wonders. I used to do a class a week and it was fantastic in outcomes. I haven't got the time at the mo. Instead of pull ups, I think dead hangs would be quite good, you don't have to be able to do 20 minute pull-ups, just hanging helps. A bit of running is great, too.
And the strength to weight ratio is an important thing, too.
Good luck, I need to do some training, too At my best, I did no training, just climbing. Now, I don't have that much time, so I have to do some training.
 stp 18 Dec 2014
In reply to flopsicle:

Interesting about the grades. If you've done V4 then that usually equates to solid UK 6b. Finding a section of V4 on a route is likely to make it at least french 7b.

You won't usually find UK 6a on anything below french 6c. If the Notts UK 6a routes have multiple moves of 6a then quite likely to be at least french 7a. I'm just trying to gauge where you're at.

You mentioned the arthritis in your fingers. Finger strength is the most important thing. Learning to climb open handed can take a bit of time if you crimp all the time but well worth, esp. given the arthritis. I used to crimp everything. The best way I've found is stay on easier routes, well within your comfort zone, but make sure you are climbing open handed all the time. Some routes are better than others. Avoid routes with crimpy holds. Over time you become more confident and it feels more natural to climb open handed - and you just end up crimping on the odd hold. Because you need to lock off slightly higher when open handing you need to increase that kind of strength too. Otherwise you'll be tempted to crimp again.

Once you get open handing down then you can start to push yourself harder and push your grade.

Simos 28 Dec 2014
In reply to flopsicle:

Just a small point on your training towards a pull up (not commenting on relevance of pull ups to climbing) - I think you are training ineffectively for doing a 'proper' pull up by doing more and more from standing. My rationale is that you are just working more and more the same muscles that are used for the 'upper' half of the pull up whereas your weakness lies in the muscles used for the 'bottom' half. I would do negatives if I were you instead and maybe then trying to hold at various positions (half way, 1/4 from bottom, hanging at bottom etc).

Also, broadly speaking, if you do hit 8 'reps' of anything (and 8 are probably on the high side), you are not really working on building strength by doing more reps but mainly endurance. You'd be better off making the exercise harder so that you are back to only being able to do 3-4 reps and build up from there.

Finally, and this is just a guess - you are most probably already strong enough to hit your 2015 climbing goals so if you want to prioritise this goal (over say doing a pull up, getting stronger etc) I would focus on climbing instead of other exercises
 Bulls Crack 28 Dec 2014
In reply to flopsicle:

5 minute miles on the rowing machine? You're worried about fitness?
OP flopsicle 29 Dec 2014
In reply to Bulls Crack:

As mentioned earlier - my rower may well have dementia but until I posted here I didn't know that as I only use my rower. I have checked that's what it says and it does but I well believe it ain't exactly sane.

Simos - I climb when I have a climbing sized chunk of time, it's what I try to use spare 30 min or even spare 10 minutes for.

I need to use climbing time for more climbing, but I like folk there and the laughs all feel very much part of it.
 Bulls Crack 29 Dec 2014
In reply to flopsicle:

Phew - you were making me depressed
csambrook 30 Dec 2014
In reply to flopsicle:

Other than "to get stronger" you don't say why you want to exercise: general fitness/wellbeing, improved climbing, body image, because the fitness industry says you should be doing it? The answer to that should guide you to the most appropriate activities for you.

Girlymonkey mentioned static trapeze. If you're anywhere near a centre then I'd really recommend any aerial circus skill, it's so much fun and you'll find that even as a climber it'll get to muscles you knew about but had rarely used. Most centres also run a aerialist's conditioning sessions which are absolute killers (the aim is to make sure the participants can barely move the next day) but will build core strength in no time. And guess where core strength is useful... climbing.
The other sort of related activity which would really help climbing is pole fitness, no not the sleezy pole-dancing sort but the fitness sort which is quite trendy at the moment. Loads of core, loads of strength, loads of fun and quite a talking point too. Most of the pole teachers I know are also to be found at the bouldering wall and they all climb better than me.
 BarrySW19 30 Dec 2014
In reply to flopsicle:

> My 2015 goal is at least one roped 6a indoors -

Given what you've said you can do in the first post, strength is clearly not the limiting factor - I mean, I can't do 10 pull ups and I've climbed 6c. It sounds more like concentrating on good technique will get you through the higher grades. In fact, I'm sure that if you find a decent climber to show you the moves you could climb a 6a now without problems.


OP flopsicle 30 Dec 2014
In reply to BarrySW19:

Due to the thread being shrunk my repeated apologies for misrepresentation are hidden! The 10 pull ups are from standing - I can't get one from hanging!

csambrook - I think my technique matters lots more to me than strength but that said I'm no rock goddess and therefore at times I'd like a little more oomph!

My reasons for wanting to get fitter are diverse. I did a physical job for years and miss the results of it. I like swimming upstream so the idea of getting older an stronger suits my sense of fun. And I really, really like climbing so do want to get better.

6a at notts isn't a lame target by any means - some of the discussion re that is also buried by the shrunken thread. I'm not ashamed of how I climb now (indoors - I'm appalled at myself outdoors!), 6a is pushing the envelope and decent, maybe not everywhere but at notts. I watch other climbers lots, I've had coaching, I push to improve technique, it's not strength instead of any of that - it's that I think I have a room for improvement with something I can influence so I want to do it and see where it leads. Does that make sense?
 lesleyann 01 Jan 2015
In reply to flopsicle:

Over the last two/three months I've been doing an abs workout that I downloaded to my phone plus I have been doing push up's to the Moby song "flowers". I've never really lasted longer than 54 seconds into the song but its made a bit of a difference to my climbing. I'm not getting to climb as often as I have been due to work but 30mins a day has improved my strength for sure.
OP flopsicle 06 Jan 2015
In reply to flopsicle:

All those voting for climb more.... I did 50 laps of a 26ft wall on the auto belay. It was a bit of an accident as I hadn't set out for a marathon! I'm well proud - shamelessly doing a little happy dance and telling all and sundry! Details below for anyone bored enough to cope...

I had an extra session on Monday and didn't really feel like doing problems so hit the autobelay. I had a plan to do 3 climbs I could manage but clumsily then to keep doing them till I was smooth as butter, then make sure I did the smooth version of the climb more than the clonky efforts it took to get me there.

1 belay had a single climb on it and the other was busy so I just carried on after I'd got my smooth climb sorted and with plenty extras to boot. I was looking at why things had made a difference to try and remember for new climbs.

By the time I moved on to the second climb and got that smooth I had got 37 laps down (I was counting with little chalk dots on the wall so I didn't realise till I counted up). I still had the 3rd climb to polish but was too tired and think it may just be a pig ugly climb, by the time I realised this I was around 40 so obviously 50 is a rounder number than 40. I did the last 10 on the second route I'd cleaned up my style on.

50 laps in total, 1 banana break, small (and unsuccessful) bouldering break while waiting for the belay back but all in one session. The wall is about 26/27ft, minusing my height makes it 20ft. 1000ft in total which apart from half a dozen warm ups were all on climbs nearish my limit (to start with).
meffl 06 Jan 2015

Lots of comments about climbing specific strength so nothing to add there. But speaking as a nearly 40 year old ex-rower (ICBC/QT, nat champs, trials), 4 miles on an ergo is a LONG, endurance row, not a strength one. Like, head race length. Keeping rows to a 2k (5k in winter) test once a week/fortnight, with shorter pieces to build strength and speed other days, will be better for building muscle. And of course get in those deadlifts and cleans!

Hit me up if you're interested in a short programme of rows Not for everyone, but it's such a good all rounder. Yeah, I'm biased.

(edited to note I'm a woman)
Post edited at 23:19
 keepguessing 08 Jan 2015
In reply to flopsicle:

your more than strong enough and you exercise routine is fine, seems like it's time to work on technique.
OP flopsicle 09 Jan 2015
In reply to sebflynn:

See the OP. If I have time to climb then I climb, it's not either or, it's about using time slots where climbing is not an option.

If it was possible to edit the OP I'd add that the 10 pull ups are from standing not hanging, the rower is bonkers but I didn't know that till I posted and that I have and will work on technique.

Such is life....

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