UKC

Hound TorNo match for climb id:58115Where: Anaerobic Wall, Hound Tor, Dartmoor

When: Early January 2015

What: Whilst bouldering on the first weekend of January (2015) myself and the friends I was with, witnessed the use of 2 other climbers top-roping with a set of axes on Hound Tor, Dartmoor. A location widely known for bouldering a trad climbing.
We all thought this was not a good thing for the rock (for obvious reasons), and wondered if there were any discrepancies/ ethics behind this sort of practise in other UK climbing areas?

Discussion: Is it acceptable to dry tool on well known climbing areas?

In reply to Hawkgirl:

Did you asked the 'Dry toolers' their opinion on the matter?

In reply to Hawkgirl:

Definitely not at Hound Tor no, nor on any other established rock climbs on the moor.
Glad I've done the route, because assuming this isn't a troll, it's almost certainly f*cked now.

In reply to Tom Last:

Hi there,

this isn't a troll....

My friend did the route (non dry tooling) afterwards and seemed ok on it. But I thought i'd spread this discussion as future and consistence use of this application on these areas is not going to be very good for the rock!!

In reply to Hawkgirl:

How dare they blunt their tools on our granite! I've heard grit does just a good a job.

But in all seriousness, i don't see this as being acceptable. But then again, there's counter arguments to everything so no matter what you or I or anyone else say, it'll be wrong. Personally, i wouldn't drytool it, or any recognised summer trad line. Imagine drytooling Coronation Street!

In reply to Run_Ross_Run:

We posed the question:

'What do you think of using dry tools on the rock?'

To which they replied 'Well it's the first time i've done it in 10 years...'
and then went on to say they were 'local climbers'....

In reply to Hawkgirl:

That's ridiculous. I hope you're trolling, but if not and if you see them again, pictures please so we can mobilise the mob!

In reply to Hawkgirl:

Very misty photo evidence:

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10204929712435287&set=a.1020446...

In reply to Hawkgirl:

To answer your initial question, no it is never acceptable to drytool on crags with an established ethic of clean climbing.
I don't know about you but I like the idea of doing as little damage to the crag environment as I can. This is why I don't drop litter, damage trees and leave big shits and bogroll where people rope up.
It's vandalism pure and simple, the scratches from another of these have a go Heros are still very visible at Millstone.

In reply to Hawkgirl:

Picture link doesn't work, I'd like to know who it was and there are a lot of locals on bookface so we might get lucky!

In reply to Hawkgirl:

This is obviously totally unacceptable - there are, however, suitable dry tooling venues on Dartmoor (so I'm told). I have posted a link to this thread on the 4 Points facebook page.

In reply to Hawkgirl:

That's a private pic. Put it on imgur please so you don't have to link us your fb profile.

In reply to Hawkgirl:

I'd be curious to see that photo too. Then maybe whoever recognises the local can say something subtly.

In reply to nickstephens:


Or perhaps not so subtly!

In reply to Hawkgirl:

There's not a lot to see in the pic unfortunately. White helmet, looks like an old BD Half Dome, and a red top.

In reply to nickstephens:

I can't imagine you being entirely subtle!

In reply to Hawkgirl:

Another link to her pic: http://imgur.com/mH1bffq

Was very misty when taken so you can't really recognise the chap. We were trying Wish on the shark fin when noticed/heard them. There was a team of 3, the guy with the axes making a proper racket despite claiming he only "used them gently" when I spoke with him shortly after. Didn't notice any obvious marks on Anaerobic Wall, but maybe they were more on the wall to the left..?
I wasn't particularly rude, just spoke with them to make them think a bit about whacking axes on the Hound Tor rock, but they seemed to vanish shortly after (i.e didn't carry on climbing without axes), we assumed because of guilt!

ps, wish he'd whacked Wish, it could do with an extra hold

In reply to olliebristol:

whatever you said it did the trick

I think if you are new to climbing and not privy to the whole spectrum of views on the use of axes on rock it would be possible to get the impression from the excited run up to the winter climbing season that this would be acceptable, these chaps are unlikely to be mad or bad just ill informed, glad the picture doesn't identify the poor chap and feel chances are they are sitting at home feeling a bit blue
john

In reply to fire_munki:
Granted this might seem a strange concept, but i did mean subtle! It seems bolting somebody to the wall and demonstrating first-hand what damage an axe can do is considered unacceptable.

I also don't think identifying them will help. Maybe a quiet "have you seen this thread" would hopefully suffice if somebody does know something.

In reply to nickstephens:

It's on a couple bookface groups so if they are local I reckon they'll stumble over it. And not do it again.

In reply to Hawkgirl:

Dry toolings kind of usually contained in a few areas, mainly shitty grim chossy quarries that are f*cked anyway rather than anything that might yield a decent route.

In reply to Hawkgirl:

… no, no, no and a hundred times… no...

In reply to Hawkgirl:

This incident will be on the agenda for the BMC SW Area Meeting which will be in Exeter on 17th January at The Quay Climbing Centre at 1900. As ever with Area Meetings all are welcome(*).

If you want to know what the BMC policy is at the moment, take a look at https://www.thebmc.co.uk/bmc-drilled-equipment-and-dry-tooling-position-sta... .

It seems what we need here is some information posted about where it is acceptable to drytool in the Dartmoor Area.

(*) We are having a guest speaker - the naturalist Ed Drewitt - who will be talking about peregrines, and the work he does with some BMC members on ringing peregrine chicks.

In reply to Hawkgirl:
It is not acceptable on established rock route and I think most people know that but some people have strange ideas... I imagine they're relative beginners. The vast majority of winter climbers / toolers have a pretty good idea of what's acceptable (basically the established venues). Besides, an E1 simply wouldn't be steep enough and would have too many holds to be of interest for tooling

It would be good though if there was a proper tooling venue in the South (other than the chalk, which is pretty esoteric). No idea if there are any suitable venues.

In reply to Misha:
I think there is some M-graded stuff in some of the Swanage quarries somewhere? (although it looks hard...)

Personally I have always wondered about the 'Devon Desert Sandstone' along the Jurassic coast east of Exeter - most of that stuff is probably soft enough to take an axe, especially when wet :P