UKC

Just wondering if anyone uses/ has one.
If so how often do you use it and how versatile do you find it ?
cheers.

In reply to DANNYdjb:
Wee tech article based on tests we ran a while back:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/n4jvzvo323pjumd/SnowAnchorsMarch2012.pdf?dl=0

In reply to george mc:

I've got a Deadman. It's supposed to be used for belaying in snow gullies etc.

I haven't used in the current century. I can't use it with leashless ice tools. But it's still in good condition. Do you want to make me an offer?

In reply to Pay Attention:

Why can't you use it with leashless tools? Is it the tools rather than the lack of leashes (i.e. lack or decent / any hammer and adze)?

To the OP, I have one, but don't carry it often. Handy if I'm expecting snow belays only and not swinging leads (so can't bury axes), but normally I don't carry and use axe belays for snow belays if I need them.

Cheers!

Stu

In reply to DANNYdjb:

I use mine below most cornice exits. Cornices are often steep, inscure and above a bloody great drop! Scary enough with a deadman!

In reply to george mc:

A good read, kind of you to share the link!

I understand fresh snow is not the ideal medium, I would be interested to see the results in harder snow packs or deeper snow that has been compacted by a climber, prior to anchor construction.

If you could just clarify, the pull exerted by one climber (0.8kN) is that a static pull by weighting the rope? or a good yank? I'm assuming weighting of the rope if .8kN compares to ~80kg.

Regardless, a nice study!

In reply to GrendeI:
Just to clarify about the tests. The tests were not intended to give definitive results regarding the strength of snow anchors. Rather they were performed in an attempt to determine if our perceptions of anchor strength versus anchor type were correct or not. Given that only 33 tests were performed and that most types of anchors were only tested two or three times, our results are not statistically that relevant. What the tests may do is suggest possible trends regarding the effectiveness of commonly used snow anchors.

In our testing of snow anchors we applied a load by having individuals pull on the test rope. We would
increase the number of people pulling until the anchor failed. The average force or load exerted by one individual
pulling was found to be around 0.8kN. Note: They were slow steady pulls - increasing number of people pulling like in a tug of war type way. Yup 0.8kN = 80kg

We tested in fresh snow as we knew we'd get failures. That way we could compare different techniques and come up with some sort of relative ranking.

As a rule of thumb the harder it is to dig in the snow the stronger your snow anchor will be (assuming you correctly set-up the anchor in the first place!). Mind you also have to put this into context with belay methods, dynamic arrest of a fall etc etc.

In reply to george mc:

cheers

In reply to DANNYdjb:

Always carry a deadman... great for protecting cornices!!!

In reply to DANNYdjb:

I use a deadman for belaying below cornices quite often, especially if they have steep exit.

A Glenmore Lodge I've also been one of a group of five pulling very hard on a mars bar slotted in hard neve. We couldn't pull it out!!!

In reply to Dave Perry:

What about a Dachstein mitt frozen to the surface? They're quite good! Bye the way was it a full size or fun size mars bar and would a snickers be as good. But kidding aside I agree it is a handy bit of kit on steep snow where nothing else is available. I tend to carry one if I have a particular intention in mind route wise and think it might be handy.

RN

In reply to StuDoig:

I use the leashless ice tools on ice falls. Yes there's neither hammer nor adze on the tools (so no good for knocking in a warthog or piton). But also these routes tend not to favour deadman belays.

... but maybe for a different type of experience I will take my old, very old, straight shafts up a gully taking Deadman belays.

In reply to rossn:

We may have tried the mitt one too. But you probably wouldn't want to eat the glove afterwards - but in all fairness the mars bar was too hard to eat.

In reply to DANNYdjb:

I haven't used one for 25 years and long since stopped carrying them. My big objection is that they occasionally fail when you think they should be good. If a belay is bad, I'd rather know. Quite a few climbers have died in pairs over the years when a deadman belay has failed, including two friends of mine in the late 70s.

In reply to Dave Perry:

Ye I dont like mars bars for winter climbing, requires more energy to chew than you get back digesting it.

In reply to DANNYdjb:

In fact Any Nisbet was one of the instructors. I've a picture of him pulling on the rope too!

So its official. Ditch your dead man and buy mars bars.