UKC

Hi guys

I came across a photo of an charity event today called a "RAP Jump" where participants abseil forward towards the ground, as to the usual abseil in a seating position.

In the photo, I see the participant (inexperienced, been prepped by the organiser) having the carabiner clipped directly through the back of the waist belt, which lifts the waist belt at least two fists away from his back.

I was seriously alarmed by this for several reasons:
1 - The waist belt was not snug against the participant so they could come off the harness
2 - The carabiner was clipped through the waist belt on the back - so it could freely move sideways, leading to participant potentially spinning around (which apparently did happen to a few people)
3 - I don't know if the waist belt of a typical harness can support shocks properly - as a proper snug fit would typically spread the force evenly around

Are all my concerns valid? What are your views on this? I really want to bring this to attention - and I don't even know if there're regulatory bodies that safety checks these type of event organisers (the charity used a third party company).

Many thanks!

In reply to guiltyvictim:

Post a link to the photo?


As far as the harness is cinched 'shorter' than the hips it's safe. When pulling by the back the stomach goes in and there's always slack showing. That does't mean you can come off the harness


No problem with that. Not sure what company you are referring to, but the one i know running this sort of shows have a grounds person keeping control pf the rope in case the abseiler loses control which is the only issue i can see with people 'spinning around'.


Plenty strong and way more than necessary, but as a bit of trivia, a snug harness will be put through more stress than a loose worn one. (But when when talking about the loads that may make it fail, you'll break before the harness does)

In reply to guiltyvictim:

Not these guys, is it? They had a proper UKC savaging a few years ago...

http://www.ukclimbing.com/forums/t.php?t=361051

In reply to Gone:

Ha! These are the guys i know... I have worked with some of them. I had chats about the methods they use and it is as safe as it gets.

In reply to guiltyvictim:

Check out caving belts ! No leg loops just a webbing belt to abseil on - not intended for face first I recon but I see no difference either way !
Also to ease your worrys a bit ,,,, I've seen someone abseil 30 metres using just a leather belt on his Jeans(face first )
Total nutter yes , but he was fine .

In reply to guiltyvictim:

5.11 Tactical make a rap belt which you can use in the manner you describe.

In reply to guiltyvictim:

When the Whillans Harness was state of the art, it was common practice to have a krab on the back of the belt to clip to your belay.
Seems to me a lot simpler than everything at the front as is the practice today, (yes, I know it doesn't allow escaping from the system)

In reply to guiltyvictim:

Hi guys, this is the photo in question:

http://i.imgur.com/tHUqVLz.jpg

The linked people seems to be out of business since the website is down; unless they changed their website address! I'm going to find out who the organisers are when I know I'm not just over-reacting!

In reply to guiltyvictim:

Hard to tell if the harness is badly fitting by that photo or is just the slack from the belly 'giving in'.

Checking the other thread's company website i just realised that they are not in fact the same people i was thinking. Slightly different website address and this outfit only adopted the rapjumpinguk name in 2012 http://www.rapjumpinguk.com/meet-the-team.html

In reply to guiltyvictim:


I think you're over reacting.
jk

In reply to guiltyvictim:


You're over reacting

In reply to guiltyvictim:

Okay cool, I'm glad I checked first! Thanks guys

In reply to guiltyvictim:

Is there any backup? The client is abbing with what looks to be a figure 8 off the back of their harness. Even though they seem to be wearing gloves they could still lose control of the brake rope. Given some clients I've seen abseil I don't think that's all that unlikely. I don't know what is normal for a professional organisation, but personally I'd want a backup so I wasn't blamed for negligence if a client dropped their brake rope.

In reply to NottsRich:

there is someone on the deck holding the same end of rope who can tension it I think, although quite jolty I would have thought. Full body harness?