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Brilliant effort though the Free Dawn Wall is, there's just something fundamentally old, stuffy and cynical about me that can't buy in to all the hype.
I stumbled across this vid of Steve McClure and Neil Mawson in the Verdon, which so made me want to get my finger out and just try harder. It's probably been on UKC before, but I'd not seen it.
http://tv.thebmc.co.uk/video/mcclure-mawson-verdon-1?current-channel=climbi...
There's something about seeing top climbers' enthusiasm for genuinely adventurous climbing - blowing hard, occasionally looking worried, off route, loose rock, but with that essential love for climbing still coming across, that makes this kind of video much more inspirational for me. And thankfully nobody used the words 'rad' or 'send it'.
I stumbled across this vid of Steve McClure and Neil Mawson in the Verdon, which so made me want to get my finger out and just try harder. It's probably been on UKC before, but I'd not seen it.
http://tv.thebmc.co.uk/video/mcclure-mawson-verdon-1?current-channel=climbi...
There's something about seeing top climbers' enthusiasm for genuinely adventurous climbing - blowing hard, occasionally looking worried, off route, loose rock, but with that essential love for climbing still coming across, that makes this kind of video much more inspirational for me. And thankfully nobody used the words 'rad' or 'send it'.
In reply to chubbs2:
As the poet famously said "Don't believe the hype". However impressive the feat has been, I have found the hyperbolic reporting mostly annoying "toughest climb in the world", "hardest ascent ever done" - and I was positively embarrassed by BBC News stories.
Ultimately all this live-tweeting, virtual high-fiving was quite uninspiring. I would have rather waited for the book to be published... All this nauseous excitation! A story like that needs to simmer for weeks, months, years so we can really appreciate all the work and dedication it takes. I will blame the redbull mentality that spoils every thing.
This sums it up http://www.thedailymash.co.uk/news/international/two-idiots-climb-big-thing...
(Christ I sound grumpy)
As the poet famously said "Don't believe the hype". However impressive the feat has been, I have found the hyperbolic reporting mostly annoying "toughest climb in the world", "hardest ascent ever done" - and I was positively embarrassed by BBC News stories.
Ultimately all this live-tweeting, virtual high-fiving was quite uninspiring. I would have rather waited for the book to be published... All this nauseous excitation! A story like that needs to simmer for weeks, months, years so we can really appreciate all the work and dedication it takes. I will blame the redbull mentality that spoils every thing.
This sums it up http://www.thedailymash.co.uk/news/international/two-idiots-climb-big-thing...
(Christ I sound grumpy)
In reply to drolex:
Fair points, well made from the Daily Mash! I'll be off to the wall later for more idiotic reasons!
Fair points, well made from the Daily Mash! I'll be off to the wall later for more idiotic reasons!
In reply to drolex:
It has been simmering for nearly eight years. Sorry if you hadn't noticed. It eventually came to a boil. I think I read that Caldwell had done all the other hard routes on El Cap and that the next hardest took him 7 days. If that doesn't put the work and dedication into perspective then I don't know what does. They climbed 4 pitches of 9a/E10 on that route. How many UK climbers have done a single pitch at those grades?
The hype, in this case, is probably justified, and, after all that simmering, avoiding a media circus in the goldfish bowl of Yosemite was never going to happen. Maybe when these standards get taken to Baffin Island.......
> A story like that needs to simmer for weeks, months, years so we can really appreciate all the work and dedication it takes.
It has been simmering for nearly eight years. Sorry if you hadn't noticed. It eventually came to a boil. I think I read that Caldwell had done all the other hard routes on El Cap and that the next hardest took him 7 days. If that doesn't put the work and dedication into perspective then I don't know what does. They climbed 4 pitches of 9a/E10 on that route. How many UK climbers have done a single pitch at those grades?
The hype, in this case, is probably justified, and, after all that simmering, avoiding a media circus in the goldfish bowl of Yosemite was never going to happen. Maybe when these standards get taken to Baffin Island.......
Post edited at 15:32
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In reply to chubbs2:
TBH I think the hype is completely justified. The Dawn Wall was undoubtedly the worlds greatest unclimbed line. A more impressive achievement is hard to contemplate.
If you can't get excited by it, then IMO you show a poor appreciation/understanding of the history and development of world climbing.
That said if you haven't climbed in Yosemite then some scepticism is perhaps understandable.
> Brilliant effort though the Free Dawn Wall is, there's just something fundamentally old, stuffy and cynical about me that can't buy in to all the hype.
TBH I think the hype is completely justified. The Dawn Wall was undoubtedly the worlds greatest unclimbed line. A more impressive achievement is hard to contemplate.
If you can't get excited by it, then IMO you show a poor appreciation/understanding of the history and development of world climbing.
That said if you haven't climbed in Yosemite then some scepticism is perhaps understandable.
In reply to chubbs2:
I was suitably impressed. But from the various bits I've seen on it it did seem to be a fairly sanitised adventure in comparison to many firsts. They seem to have spent more time rigging for the camera men than climbing. Not taking anything away from the achievement which is incredible, but it didn't inspire or awe me as much as a lot of much less technically difficult but simply more rough and rugged first ascent stories
I was suitably impressed. But from the various bits I've seen on it it did seem to be a fairly sanitised adventure in comparison to many firsts. They seem to have spent more time rigging for the camera men than climbing. Not taking anything away from the achievement which is incredible, but it didn't inspire or awe me as much as a lot of much less technically difficult but simply more rough and rugged first ascent stories
In reply to Robert Durran:
Oh don't get me wrong, I am really impressed by what they have done, and I have followed the stories for a long time. Nothing against the climbers, but sponsors and media (both specialised and mainstream) have played the partition a bit too loud for my liking. This avalanche of information has been a bit counter-productive in my opinion.
The constant use of hyperboles everywhere drives me mad, that's all. It deprives everything from its true value. I wish this would have been treated in terms of relative values, not absolute. Is it Messner in the 7th grade who tried to explain something like that?
Oh don't get me wrong, I am really impressed by what they have done, and I have followed the stories for a long time. Nothing against the climbers, but sponsors and media (both specialised and mainstream) have played the partition a bit too loud for my liking. This avalanche of information has been a bit counter-productive in my opinion.
The constant use of hyperboles everywhere drives me mad, that's all. It deprives everything from its true value. I wish this would have been treated in terms of relative values, not absolute. Is it Messner in the 7th grade who tried to explain something like that?
Post edited at 15:44
1
In reply to Scarab9:
>"They seem to have spent more time rigging for the camera men than climbing."
They gotta eat. Like most people things have to be done to put bread on the table. Only a lucky few are independantly wealthy enough to be able to just go climbing and not worry about the bills.
>"They seem to have spent more time rigging for the camera men than climbing."
They gotta eat. Like most people things have to be done to put bread on the table. Only a lucky few are independantly wealthy enough to be able to just go climbing and not worry about the bills.
In reply to drolex:
The general gist of the reporting is that this is the hardest rock climb ever done. ie harder than all other rock climbs. That seems pretty relative to me.
> I wish this would have been treated in terms of relative values, not absolute.
The general gist of the reporting is that this is the hardest rock climb ever done. ie harder than all other rock climbs. That seems pretty relative to me.
In reply to The Ex-Engineer:
That strikes me as an odd thing to say - it wasn't unclimbed, and I suspect there are plenty more great lines out there, even on El Cap,
Chris
> TBH I think the hype is completely justified. The Dawn Wall was undoubtedly the worlds greatest unclimbed line. A more impressive achievement is hard to contemplate.
That strikes me as an odd thing to say - it wasn't unclimbed, and I suspect there are plenty more great lines out there, even on El Cap,
Chris
1
In reply to Chris Craggs:
>"I suspect there are plenty more great lines out there, even on El Cap"
Yeah, you'd think with all that blank, steep, rock there is bound a couple of F9a+ pitches somewhere, that could be linked into a route.
>"I suspect there are plenty more great lines out there, even on El Cap"
Yeah, you'd think with all that blank, steep, rock there is bound a couple of F9a+ pitches somewhere, that could be linked into a route.
In reply to Scarab9:
There's a reasonably thought-provoking article[1] here:
http://fringesfolly.com/2015/01/05/what-nobody-is-saying-about-the-dawn-wal...
(and a sort of partial apology / retraction here: http://fringesfolly.com/2015/01/06/the-dawn-wall-rant-expose-and-words-from... )
I think he makes a valid point re "sanitization":
"The aura that surrounds Tommy and Kevin’s push simply feels a lot more like a sport-climbing project, than a big wall adventure. Closer to Sharma pushing and pushing and finally sending Realization than to a bunch of Belgians romping their way up mossy big wall offwidths in the middle of the Arctic with seagulls puking in their faces."
[1] as in, I'm not saying I 100% agree with it but it's an interesting read. Sort of like you'd imagine John Redhead writing on the subject if someone stole his thesaurus before he started and edited out all the tangents when he'd finished.
There's a reasonably thought-provoking article[1] here:
http://fringesfolly.com/2015/01/05/what-nobody-is-saying-about-the-dawn-wal...
(and a sort of partial apology / retraction here: http://fringesfolly.com/2015/01/06/the-dawn-wall-rant-expose-and-words-from... )
I think he makes a valid point re "sanitization":
"The aura that surrounds Tommy and Kevin’s push simply feels a lot more like a sport-climbing project, than a big wall adventure. Closer to Sharma pushing and pushing and finally sending Realization than to a bunch of Belgians romping their way up mossy big wall offwidths in the middle of the Arctic with seagulls puking in their faces."
[1] as in, I'm not saying I 100% agree with it but it's an interesting read. Sort of like you'd imagine John Redhead writing on the subject if someone stole his thesaurus before he started and edited out all the tangents when he'd finished.
Post edited at 16:11
In reply to Robert Durran:
Well this is where I might disagree. Is it harder than a single pitch 9b+? Harder than the compressor route given the weather conditions in Patagonia? Harder than whatever is considered the toughest bouldering problem out there? I have no bloody idea but it would have been good to present it within its context.
Well this is where I might disagree. Is it harder than a single pitch 9b+? Harder than the compressor route given the weather conditions in Patagonia? Harder than whatever is considered the toughest bouldering problem out there? I have no bloody idea but it would have been good to present it within its context.
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In reply to Ramblin dave:
>"The aura that surrounds Tommy and Kevin¡¦s push simply feels a lot more like a sport-climbing project, than a big wall adventure. Closer to Sharma pushing and pushing and finally sending Realization than to a bunch of Belgians romping their way up mossy big wall offwidths in the middle of the Arctic with seagulls puking in their faces."
That's a great line but I can't see what's wrong with Dawn Wall being more like a sport project than knarly off the beaten track trad.
Setting aside the big grades, what makes Dawn Wall Free so great is the effort it took. Does six weeks in Greenland really trumph six years in Yosemite?
>"The aura that surrounds Tommy and Kevin¡¦s push simply feels a lot more like a sport-climbing project, than a big wall adventure. Closer to Sharma pushing and pushing and finally sending Realization than to a bunch of Belgians romping their way up mossy big wall offwidths in the middle of the Arctic with seagulls puking in their faces."
That's a great line but I can't see what's wrong with Dawn Wall being more like a sport project than knarly off the beaten track trad.
Setting aside the big grades, what makes Dawn Wall Free so great is the effort it took. Does six weeks in Greenland really trumph six years in Yosemite?
1
In reply to drolex:
>"Is it harder than a single pitch 9b+?"
Well, I'd put money on Ondra climbing another 9b+ at the drop of a hat.
I'd expect him to balk at the idea taking on Dawn Wall.
I'd defer to his opinion.
>"Is it harder than a single pitch 9b+?"
Well, I'd put money on Ondra climbing another 9b+ at the drop of a hat.
I'd expect him to balk at the idea taking on Dawn Wall.
I'd defer to his opinion.
In reply to Ramblin dave:
yes, that exactly and put much better than I was trying to. Still amazing though.
oh and just about to read that link - thanks
> "The aura that surrounds Tommy and Kevin’s push simply feels a lot more like a sport-climbing project, than a big wall adventure. Closer to Sharma pushing and pushing and finally sending Realization than to a bunch of Belgians romping their way up mossy big wall offwidths in the middle of the Arctic with seagulls puking in their faces."
finished.yes, that exactly and put much better than I was trying to. Still amazing though.
oh and just about to read that link - thanks
In reply to drolex:
I see your point, but the worlds media cannot put this into a context, because they don't really understand. Big walling in Patagonia or redpointing 9b+ is as far removed from their understanding as this is. I'm sure all the mainstream news channel reporters really wanted to say was something about "banging in them metal things in the rock."
It was great to see a couple of really good ambassadors on BBC though. Both Leo Holding and Neil Gresham gave really good explanations and descriptions that non-climbers could understand.
I was really impressed with Neil Gresham. He managed to plug 3 manufacturers (Sherpa, Petzl and La Sportiva) whilst still giving a good interview! . I don't think the presenters saw that coming.
I see your point, but the worlds media cannot put this into a context, because they don't really understand. Big walling in Patagonia or redpointing 9b+ is as far removed from their understanding as this is. I'm sure all the mainstream news channel reporters really wanted to say was something about "banging in them metal things in the rock."
It was great to see a couple of really good ambassadors on BBC though. Both Leo Holding and Neil Gresham gave really good explanations and descriptions that non-climbers could understand.
I was really impressed with Neil Gresham. He managed to plug 3 manufacturers (Sherpa, Petzl and La Sportiva) whilst still giving a good interview! . I don't think the presenters saw that coming.
Post edited at 16:38
In reply to Chris Craggs:
Hi Chris
With apologies for the pedantry: in the context wherein we normally don't consider a route to have been "climbed" (and therefore to exist as a route) until that has happened from bottom to top in one push, up until sometime yesterday "unclimbed" seems to have been the only way to describe it; ie the line of "Free Dawn" (not sure if that's now the route's name or just a working title) hadn't been climbed until yesterday, in the same way that El Nino, El Corazon and Golden Gate didn't exist as routes until the Hubers did them. Does the fact that they made use of sections of existing aid routes alter that, especially with the crux areas being mostly new ground?
> That strikes me as an odd thing to say - it wasn't unclimbed >
Hi Chris
With apologies for the pedantry: in the context wherein we normally don't consider a route to have been "climbed" (and therefore to exist as a route) until that has happened from bottom to top in one push, up until sometime yesterday "unclimbed" seems to have been the only way to describe it; ie the line of "Free Dawn" (not sure if that's now the route's name or just a working title) hadn't been climbed until yesterday, in the same way that El Nino, El Corazon and Golden Gate didn't exist as routes until the Hubers did them. Does the fact that they made use of sections of existing aid routes alter that, especially with the crux areas being mostly new ground?
In reply to JLS:
You are missing the point. A great line takes the line of least resistance up an inescapable piece of rock. Dawn Wall does precisely that up one of the most impressive bits of rock in the world. Contriving a line with a 9a+ link would not.
> >"I suspect there are plenty more great lines out there, even on El Cap"
> Yeah, you'd think with all that blank, steep, rock there is bound a couple of F9a+ pitches somewhere, that could be linked into a route.
You are missing the point. A great line takes the line of least resistance up an inescapable piece of rock. Dawn Wall does precisely that up one of the most impressive bits of rock in the world. Contriving a line with a 9a+ link would not.
In reply to JLS:
I wouldn't really think of it as being a criticism - or at least, not in a simple "why do people bother with this rubbish" sort of way. More of an observation.
> That's a great line but I can't see what's wrong with Dawn Wall being more like a sport project than knarly off the beaten track trad.
I wouldn't really think of it as being a criticism - or at least, not in a simple "why do people bother with this rubbish" sort of way. More of an observation.
In reply to Ramblin dave:
But that's Yosemite for you. It is and always has been the crucible for pushing big wall standards which are then later exported to more adventurous areas. The Belgians are taking yesteryear's Yosemite standards to Greenland. The new standard seen on Dawn Wall might be seen say in Baffin in 20 years time.
> "The aura that surrounds Tommy and Kevin’s push simply feels a lot more like a sport-climbing project, than a big wall adventure. Closer to Sharma pushing and pushing and finally sending Realization than to a bunch of Belgians romping their way up mossy big wall offwidths in the middle of the Arctic with seagulls puking in their faces."
But that's Yosemite for you. It is and always has been the crucible for pushing big wall standards which are then later exported to more adventurous areas. The Belgians are taking yesteryear's Yosemite standards to Greenland. The new standard seen on Dawn Wall might be seen say in Baffin in 20 years time.
In reply to chubbs2:
I don't know how responsible Caldwell and Jorgeson are for the hype. They were just up there climbing and realising a desperately difficult ambition. I can't get my head around all the naysayers at all. If there's been some media bullshit so what, we, as climbers, can surely make our own minds up about what they've achieved. I bet up there on the wall it felt just like doing a climb - not a media circus.
And all this talk of 'oh I bet Ondra would piss up it' - well I doubt that very much; but the point is he hasn't and until/if he does it's a pointless slur. Caldwell in particular has put the work in for years, essentially creating a completely new free climb.
I don't know how responsible Caldwell and Jorgeson are for the hype. They were just up there climbing and realising a desperately difficult ambition. I can't get my head around all the naysayers at all. If there's been some media bullshit so what, we, as climbers, can surely make our own minds up about what they've achieved. I bet up there on the wall it felt just like doing a climb - not a media circus.
And all this talk of 'oh I bet Ondra would piss up it' - well I doubt that very much; but the point is he hasn't and until/if he does it's a pointless slur. Caldwell in particular has put the work in for years, essentially creating a completely new free climb.
Post edited at 16:59
In reply to pasbury:
I suspect that Ondra might be able to piss up each individual pitch, technically - but has he the necessary trad/big wall skills/experience and ability to place natural pro with the speed required?
I suspect that Ondra might be able to piss up each individual pitch, technically - but has he the necessary trad/big wall skills/experience and ability to place natural pro with the speed required?
In reply to Scarab9:
If you've ever redpointed anything near your limit, you'll know you can make three or four serious attempts a day. (Tops. There was an interview with Chris Sharma where he said he could manage one go a day on Dura Dura). The video of Kevin Jorgenson succeeding on one of the 9a pitches is twelve minutes. You have to find something to do for the other 23 hours, can't just sit and will your fingertips to grow back the whole time.
That said, I found the climbing impressive but the media circus overblown and boring. Otoh it's positive that all the overblown media coverage for once goes to something that is actually cutting edge.
And - to the OP - I don't think anybody can accuse Tommy Caldwell of lack of interest in "genuinely adventurous climbing" given his exploits in Kyrgyzstan & Patagonia
> They seem to have spent more time rigging for the camera men than climbing.
If you've ever redpointed anything near your limit, you'll know you can make three or four serious attempts a day. (Tops. There was an interview with Chris Sharma where he said he could manage one go a day on Dura Dura). The video of Kevin Jorgenson succeeding on one of the 9a pitches is twelve minutes. You have to find something to do for the other 23 hours, can't just sit and will your fingertips to grow back the whole time.
That said, I found the climbing impressive but the media circus overblown and boring. Otoh it's positive that all the overblown media coverage for once goes to something that is actually cutting edge.
And - to the OP - I don't think anybody can accuse Tommy Caldwell of lack of interest in "genuinely adventurous climbing" given his exploits in Kyrgyzstan & Patagonia
In reply to Gordon Stainforth:
I don't think speed was on the agenda! I'm sure he could do it..... Given time and preparation, and the most massive part of that preparation would be having a route to follow, that's what these guys have just given him and anyone else who cares to have a go.
I don't think speed was on the agenda! I'm sure he could do it..... Given time and preparation, and the most massive part of that preparation would be having a route to follow, that's what these guys have just given him and anyone else who cares to have a go.
In reply to AlanLittle:
Nail on head, especially with what happened there.
Too many armchair igmoramouses here sadly. This stuff about Ondra in particular smacks of playground climbing top trumps and if it wasnt from such daft sources it would be pretty insulting to the efforts Tommy has put in over the years: are we going to get this nonsense everytime some top end adventure route is put up.
Nail on head, especially with what happened there.
Too many armchair igmoramouses here sadly. This stuff about Ondra in particular smacks of playground climbing top trumps and if it wasnt from such daft sources it would be pretty insulting to the efforts Tommy has put in over the years: are we going to get this nonsense everytime some top end adventure route is put up.
In reply to The Ex-Engineer:
There's loads of things I can't get excited by in climbing but that doesn't mean I can't appreciate the value or historical significance of them.
However I think you've rather missed the point of the OP - which was that seeing a low key video of a couple of top uk climbers out cragging as mates and virtually on sighting a multi-pitch 8b in the Verdon, was more inspiring to me personally than all the Dawn wall stuff.
If the Dawn Wall does it for you then good for you sunshine! And yes I have climbed in Yosemite by the way.
There's loads of things I can't get excited by in climbing but that doesn't mean I can't appreciate the value or historical significance of them.
However I think you've rather missed the point of the OP - which was that seeing a low key video of a couple of top uk climbers out cragging as mates and virtually on sighting a multi-pitch 8b in the Verdon, was more inspiring to me personally than all the Dawn wall stuff.
If the Dawn Wall does it for you then good for you sunshine! And yes I have climbed in Yosemite by the way.
In reply to pasbury:
I think daily blog posts and tweets from the wall may have a fair bit to do with the hype. Like I said brilliant effort - it's just personally I thought the McClure / Mawson vid more inspiring to make me try harder.
I think daily blog posts and tweets from the wall may have a fair bit to do with the hype. Like I said brilliant effort - it's just personally I thought the McClure / Mawson vid more inspiring to make me try harder.
In reply to JLS:
Well we could also say that 9b+ would stop Kevin Jorgeson and Tommy Caldwell dead in their tracks. In fact I'm sure even some single pitch 9a+ would stop them. The step to 9a+ now seems like a step that stops a lot of very good climbers.
Also I certainly wouldn't think Ondra would necessarily balk at Dawn Wall. That guy has so much experience. The repeat of that multi pitch thing he did in Madagascar was very, very impressive compared to the strong french team that put it up. I'm sure he could do Dawn Wall and probably a much faster ascent too, if that's what he decided he really wanted to do.
> Well, I'd put money on Ondra climbing another 9b+ at the drop of a hat.
I'd expect him to balk at the idea taking on Dawn Wall.Well we could also say that 9b+ would stop Kevin Jorgeson and Tommy Caldwell dead in their tracks. In fact I'm sure even some single pitch 9a+ would stop them. The step to 9a+ now seems like a step that stops a lot of very good climbers.
Also I certainly wouldn't think Ondra would necessarily balk at Dawn Wall. That guy has so much experience. The repeat of that multi pitch thing he did in Madagascar was very, very impressive compared to the strong french team that put it up. I'm sure he could do Dawn Wall and probably a much faster ascent too, if that's what he decided he really wanted to do.
In reply to Offwidth:
The debate was about whether the media claim that this is the hardest route in the world had any validity. I doubt very much KJ or TC have made any such claim so it's certainly not insulting to them. It seems like a perfectly reasonable thing to discuss on a climbing forum.
> are we going to get this nonsense everytime some top end adventure route is put up
The debate was about whether the media claim that this is the hardest route in the world had any validity. I doubt very much KJ or TC have made any such claim so it's certainly not insulting to them. It seems like a perfectly reasonable thing to discuss on a climbing forum.
In reply to Offwidth:
Nonsense. It takes absolutely nothing away from Caldwell's efforts and the style of his ascent to point out that he has created a route which will cry out to future suitably qualified candidates for a repeat in improved style. That's the way these things work; that's how climbing evolves and I'm sure Caldwell knows that as well as anyone. And if there is any climber around with the talent (even if not yet the experience) to do it it is undoubtedly Ondra.
> Too many armchair igmoramouses here sadly. This stuff about Ondra in particular smacks of playground climbing top trumps and if it wasnt from such daft sources it would be pretty insulting to the efforts Tommy has put in over the years.
Nonsense. It takes absolutely nothing away from Caldwell's efforts and the style of his ascent to point out that he has created a route which will cry out to future suitably qualified candidates for a repeat in improved style. That's the way these things work; that's how climbing evolves and I'm sure Caldwell knows that as well as anyone. And if there is any climber around with the talent (even if not yet the experience) to do it it is undoubtedly Ondra.
Post edited at 23:51
In reply to chubbs2:
The McClure-Mawson vid is really good. Thanks for posting.
Quite amusing seeing two top climbers going up the completely wrong route, wondering why the 7b pitch is feels so hard. McClure's words were interesting too. Of course one of the main points was that he didn't feel he needed to climb at his hardest anymore to necessarily enjoy climbing. But at one time, some times, he does and that is where KJ and TC have been at with the Dawn Wall. And presumably all the best, exciting, inspiring Dawn Wall footage yet to come.
Personally I think it's all good. Climbing, what a great activity! But I can see the Dawn Wall hype around the ascent as a big turn off. Perhaps its a case of separating that from the actual climbing.
The McClure-Mawson vid is really good. Thanks for posting.
Quite amusing seeing two top climbers going up the completely wrong route, wondering why the 7b pitch is feels so hard. McClure's words were interesting too. Of course one of the main points was that he didn't feel he needed to climb at his hardest anymore to necessarily enjoy climbing. But at one time, some times, he does and that is where KJ and TC have been at with the Dawn Wall. And presumably all the best, exciting, inspiring Dawn Wall footage yet to come.
Personally I think it's all good. Climbing, what a great activity! But I can see the Dawn Wall hype around the ascent as a big turn off. Perhaps its a case of separating that from the actual climbing.
In reply to Robert Durran:
I take your Ondra with my Bonnington since the topic is media.
I found most of the TV stuff OK which is a big result given how bad the media can be on climbing. Even more positive, driving home today listening to PM on radio 4, as a tag to this tail I heard Norman bigging up climbing for ordinary folk in wonderful style. When comparing TV jounalism with some of the stuff stated stated by climbers I know who has more to answer for.
I take your Ondra with my Bonnington since the topic is media.
I found most of the TV stuff OK which is a big result given how bad the media can be on climbing. Even more positive, driving home today listening to PM on radio 4, as a tag to this tail I heard Norman bigging up climbing for ordinary folk in wonderful style. When comparing TV jounalism with some of the stuff stated stated by climbers I know who has more to answer for.
Post edited at 21:01
In reply to stp:
Anyway, as any fule kno, that's either Hubble or Violent New Breed.
> The debate was about whether the media claim that this is the hardest route in the world had any validity. I doubt very much KJ or TC have made any such claim so it's certainly not insulting to them. It seems like a perfectly reasonable thing to discuss on a climbing forum.
Anyway, as any fule kno, that's either Hubble or Violent New Breed.
Post edited at 16:50
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